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Erting's Replies
I loved this film and I think the last three scenes (Luthor, the Knightmare scene, and Martian Manhunter) are cool and a lot of fun to watch, but I view these more as extended post-credits scenes that just happen to play before the credits. To me, the film's natural end is when Superman walks into the alleyway and rips open his suit as he's about to fly into action. Everything after that is just a bonus.
I agree that this is a masterpiece and one of the best comic book films ever made. I actually enjoyed the Whedon cut, but on every level, Snyder's film is superior. It's epic, thrilling, emotional and it's the fastest and most engrossing 4 hours I've ever sat through. The final battle in Russia went from being an okay setpeice in the Whedon version to one of my all-time favorite comic book action sequences in Snyder's version.
I saw this film in the comfort of my own home by myself and literally jumped and cheered at the "Not impressed" scene and, even after multiple viewings, I get goosebumps when Flash uses the speed force to prevent the unity from taking place. Deserving of a lot more mention and praise is Tom Holkenborg's score, which is one of the best ever composed for the genre. I actually thought his use of the Man of Steel theme was even better than Hans Zimmer.
Its IMDB rating is actually higher in the U.S. than it is overseas (6.7 vs 6.4). I've noticed whenever a film becomes available on streaming, its rating makes faster drops. My hypothesis is that when a film, particularly a big blockbuster type of film, is released in theaters first, the people who go see it are more hyped and likely to be partial to it so its ratings are at its highest during that period. Once it becomes available for streaming, which then makes it subject to pirating, the ratings tend to make a fast drop for several days before stabilizing because much more casual viewers or even those who would "hate watch" the film (for lack of a better phrase) are now seeing the film for the first time since they get to see it for free.
That theory seems to fit both Zack Snyder's Justice League and Godzilla vs. Kong. ZSJL started at an 8.9 and dropped to an 8.2 while GvK started at 8.0 and dropped to a 6.6.
IMDB factors in dummy accounts and other sorts of vote rigging. That's why a movie's weighted vote average is very rarely ever the same as its arithmetic mean, so the 8.2 rating is legitimately a mix of Zack Snyder fans, neutral casual viewers, and Snyder haters. The rating might drop a little more, but not by much and likely will settle at around 8.0.
Snyder is the far superior director. I love his ambition and style, and I love that he makes thematically heavy, thought-provoking action films.
Michael Bay's Pearl Harbor and 13 Hours were way more pretentious and Oscar bait than any of Zack Snyder's films. Even viewed on just a pure entertainment level, Snyder does a far, far better job with action scenes than Michael Bay, whose films suffer way too much chaotic quick cuts and editing. I could watch the final battle in Snyder's Justice League or the warehouse fight in Batman v Superman over and over. They're two of the best comic book action sequences ever filmed, with brilliant filming, editing, and choreography. Most of Bay's action setpieces are just a mess.
Edit on 5-15-21:
It's no competition with critics, either. Bay has only one film fresh on Rotten Tomatoes: The Rock (deservedly so, it's one of the best action films ever made). Zack Snyder has 5 fresh films: Dawn of the Dead, 300, Watchmen, Zack Snyder's Justice League, and Army of the Dead.
On IMDB, Bay has 3 films with a 7.0 rating or higher (The Rock, Transformers, and 13 Hours). Snyder has 6 films with a 7.0 rating or higher (Dawn of the Dead, 300, Watchmen, Man of Steel, Zack Snyder's Justice League, and Army of the Dead).
Man of Steel
Zack Snyder's Justice League
Dawn of the Dead
Watchmen
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
300
Sucker Punch
Legend of the Guardians
6/10. I thought the first 2/3's was a lot of fun and the ocean battle was great. The last 1/3 was a bit too rushed and the city battles were all right but a bit mundane compared to the ocean setpiece. I actually thought it would have been more interesting and unique if they fought in Hollow Earth.
I couldn't believe it's budget was in that range. I actually enjoyed the movie, but I can't even begin to imagine where all that money went. An entire season of The Expanse costs about $40M and it looks so much more visually elaborate and complex than anything in Chaos Walking.
The ratings are relative and would best be served comparing it to the rest of the Monsterverse. By this series' standard, a 6.7 is a very solid rating. The rest of the franchise runs from 6.0 to 6.6, so a 6.7 would make it the highest rated film of the franchise (though I'm sure it'll drop below Kong: Skull Island's 6.6 in a week or so).
James Mangold is a better director than Bryan Singer, even as an action filmmaker, so I don't think Singer would have done better. And if Mangold used what he learned on this film to give us the masterpiece that was Logan, then it was all worth it. Aside from X2 and the Quicksilver scenes in Days of Future Past and Apocalypse, I don't even think Singer has really shown that much talent for directing action scenes.
I fully agree. I felt that upon my first viewings of both films and after rewatching both again in the last few weeks, I feel exactly the same. First Class is simply the most purely fun and exhilarating of all the X-Men films. You can sense the joy in the characters as they embrace their powers. The James McAvoy/Michael Fassbender chemistry was at its strongest in this film, and the beach climax is one of the best setpieces in the franchise, which has had a pretty dubious history of ending their films in anti-climactic fashion.
Days of Future Past is a good movie with a compelling plot and excellent acting/characterizations, but here are my issues with the film: the prequel cast deserved more time on their own before the original cast got shoehorned in. The plot seems to exist for no other reason than to wipe out the ending of X-Men: The Last Stand. The action is less exciting than in First Class, without any genuine standout setpieces. In the original comic, the apocalpytic scenes set in the future were the highlight of the story, but in the film they're actually the film's weakest moments. The sentinels just don't come across intimidating enough (the CGI could have been better) and we don't get to learn much about any of the new mutants in the future so we don't care when they're killed by the sentinels.
I think it'll settle around a 6.5 or 6.6. These blockbuster tentpole films make their fastest and largest drops within the first few days after they become available for streaming, but then stabilize after that and make much slower drops. There were some people on the ZS Justice League Board claiming that film would drop into the low 7's but it's going to settle at around 8.0.
My take is, why not have both the Snyderverse and the solo, unrelated projects? It's true that not everything has to be connected, but why not make a set of related films set within the Snyderverse and separate films that aren't related? If HBO Max is as interested in the Snyderverse as some outlets are reporting, then the divide would be pretty clean in terms of keeping track of what is or isn't related to the Snyderverse so I don't think audience confusion would be an issue.
Whedon cut - 7/10. Yes, I actually enjoyed it. I haven't seen the film in a while now, so it may look a lot worse in retrospect after having seen the Snyder cut.
Snyder cut - 10/10
I didn't mind the 2017 film, but without question, the Snyder cut is the superior film on every level. It's got a more engrossing story, deeper and richer characterizations, much more exciting spectacle and action scenes, far superior special effects, a much more memorable musical score, and an overall epic and mythic feel that the 2017 film completely lacked. The Snyder cut is now among my all-time favorite comic book films.
I like Amy Adams a lot as Lois Lane. My own personal preference would have been Emily Blunt, but Adams is still really good in the role. My own personal favorite Lois Lane probably remains Teri Hatcher. She had the best combination of beauty, spitfire personality, and romantic chemistry with Clark Kent.
I think using the world engine on a planet proven to be hospitable for life would give the best possible outcome. If you recall, there was a brief scene that showed Zod and his group finding dead colonies throughout the galaxy presumably because the world engine wasn't capable of changing a lifeless planet into an inhabitable one.
I've already seen Snyder's version of Justice League twice since it debuted on HBO Max and absolutely loved it. It may very well take over the top spot with multiple viewings, but for now I still have Man of Steel as my favorite DCEU film.
Man of Steel
Zack Snyder's Justice League
Batman v Superman
Aquaman
Justice League 2017
Shazam
Wonder Woman
Suicide Squad
WW84
Birds of Prey
I actually think his comic book film output is as good as any other director out there.
Man of Steel - 10/10
Zack Snyder's Justice League - 10/10
Watchmen - 9/10
Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice Ultimate Edition - 8/10
300 - 7/10
I really loved this film, too. I say that as someone who admittedly lost a little faith in Zack Snyder after BvS, which I didn't hate but I thought it was a huge step backward after the awesome Man of Steel. I was really more concerned about whether he could make up for that misstep than the 2017 Justice League, since it was quite apparent that very little of Snyder's style or vision remained in the "original" JL film. But he really put it all together with this film, which clicked on all cylinders and really delivered as a grand and emotional sci-fi superhero epic.
There were so many rousing moments that induced goosebumps, whether it was Superman's "Not impressed" intro in the final battle, Flash going faster than the speed of light to turn back time just a few seconds to prevent world destruction, or the triple tag team kill of Steppenwolf. This film is already up there with my all-time favorite comic book movies.
You're right about streaming being the perfect format for this film. Even if Snyder had gotten to finish his cut and release it in theaters in 2017, it would have been a butchered mess given WB's mandate that the film couldn't go past 2 hours in length. I'm just glad both Snyder and the fans got to see the film he wanted to make.