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Birdmant7's Replies
William is God?
Are we watching the same show?
Did you miss the last episode when his own daughter said " you are a liar to the core".
William is the most Egotistical, self-centered AH who lives in his own head in false reality.
He is a far cry from any GOD
I think this episode worked and was different because it went back to the very themes of the season one, reaching the center of the Maze is the "consciousness". But in last season Delores was the main character for reaching there and we had no idea what was her dreams and memories of the past until episode 9 and 10 when Ford explains to both Delores and Bernard. That info he passed on is the blue print for the host to reach consciousness, yet in season 2, that Maze question was rarely mentioned until in this Episode, it stood out and moved us because it went back to the info we were given in first season, but this only shows how badly managed this show's writers are, to keep the that very key for that all host in the park need and struggle with to be inserted in each episode. We spent way too much time with Delores revolution, even when the Samurias episode aired it became more about Mauve's controlling them, instead maybe bring the struggle theme with consciousness in that episode.
I watched Ep 8 almost 3 times and each time it moved me, this actor McClarnon's voice just sweeps on and his eyes sadness and loss were so well conveyed that it was like you are on his journey with him. He really made you feel the cruelty of Westworld as using what they consider to be just robots. But just like "BladeRunner" where the Androids were tired to be slaves, because they wanted their own life, that theme was very strongly expressed in this episode, especially when Kiksuya finds his wife in the storage area where like a meat locker, it was a reality that is only normal to the people who work there, but to Kiksuya was even more hurtful to realize they are just a cattle. This is something the creators really could have had other stories like Kiksuya who lost loved ones or replaced, but to wait towards the end of a season that is all over the place and now throw us this amazing episode that was so out of the box and anomaly compare to the entire show?..
I think why this episode stands out is because this show for some odd reason does not focus on its own theme or the info we were given in the first season. This episode 8 went right back to the central theme of West World's first season in how Arnold created consciousness, as Ford told Bernard that it comes from that are from suffering from memories, one of the reason he gave the memory of Arnold's child to Bernard. Also Ford explained in Ep 10 finale to Delores and Bernard how Arnold created the Maze to between to create emotions of empathy and suffering through memories, with each rebirth and recall of memories that create pain, is the key to the Maze.
If you go back and watch this episode again, you will see Kiksuya's suffering was the lost of his wife, he then got to also experience empathy for others who lost family members. We got to hear a story of a host and his journey to the center of the Maze very similar to Delores, but his was more focused an hour movie, it was very emotional. I think the reason Mauve is stronger has maybe something to do with the deep hurt of seeing her child get killed; that memory was her corner stone that happened over and over; if you go back the first season in Ep8 Mauve is the first host who after they erased her memory of the death of her child, she gets up and stabs herself in the neck because the memory could not be erased, that was the suffering that Arnold had discovered; the more pain and suffering the closer they will get to be have their own consciousness.
This season 2 we spent a lot of time on watching the host killing people, just more action than content, less on the themes and foundation of Ford said to Delores. That's why most people are confused what is going on?. even in Season one its was towards the end things kind started to make sense and now all that info given to us made more sense in this episode 8 ? that is really shows how this show is badly managed or doesn't know where is going? for a show to not to remind its audience what is the struggle, where is the arc in reaching the center of the Maze to be for any Host we get introduced, like the Samuria's episode 6, they could have hinted it there and how that group has also woken up to the lies, instead of just fighting scenes.
I agree with a lot you posted here; I felt lost too, but I still continued watching until
6th or 7th when story got more interesting. One of the biggest holes in the narrative was "Delores" in the past and present, even when we find out William is actually the Man in Black, while watching Delores to be going the same conflicts since the show began and that scene when she is with Man in Black and he tells he is William was the most confusing part. If its been 30 years from young william to older, Delores was already gaining awareness when she was with young william, back at that time and we see her development but suddenly we are in the present and she is still dealing with the same struggle? ...that time line of thirty or fourty years different is where the writing really dropped the ball. For a show that is got such a high profile cast and yet it's so incoherent for these writers not wonder how can this character who is robot be doing the same thing over, yet we as the audience are only given one time line that Delores is gaining consciousness which we find out is the past but the present as well? That only tells these creators of this show didn't think this through or they writing this as the go along. They got a lot in both past and present that conflict one another.
I agree 100%, episode 8 was outstanding as the best episode in both seasons.
The story was very well written because when Kiksuya found the Bernard's son game,
where it was the object that lead to how the host gained consciousness, and it
did exactly that for Kiksuya who said "I felt a new voice", which meant he gained
consciousness. What does consciousness meant was his independence and the decision making
for his to find his wife again. The scene with Antony Hopkins, when Kiksuya meets the creator
was also explained how much Ford was involved in this revolution of the hosts, but it was how he spoke tothat was moving; because he was the against the idea of these host ever gaining consciousness and caused all the problems with his partner Bernard, yet I felt the clue that he provided to Kiksuya was his way of some redemption and free the host and closing the park down.
Tell me who made you the "Police" of this site to tell people what they should say or not say? Was I talking to YOU ? How about minding your own business?
I can tell from all these posts you must have a lot of time on your hand.. GET A LIFE
"Not only are all the characters in it repulsive and immoral, but the story itself really seems to have no
arc, or moral foundation, and just gets worse and worse as episodes go by."
I agree 100% and this season 3 it got even worse where I hate Chuck and Wendy more than I did before. When you watch how sick and twisted almost every character on this show is and yet find it compelling too, but there is not one redeemable character on this show that I care about. They are all bunch of scum bags like rats in a sewer who eat on each other and Chuck to me is worse than Axe in more ways due to his abuse of power with a manipulative bitch of a wife like Wendy who is a borderline a sociopath who like Taylor says changes the pieces on the motherboard whenever she feels like it and always has a justifications for it, just like a criminals do. These people are really worse than criminals but they just have power and money to hide behind, that;s what this show is really showing us and that is what makes it repulsive because its very close to the reality of our times.
I think the point you made about Keane's resignation to be the "moment of self-awareness" is correct; it was a real curve ball for the finale. Given all the events that happened with Russian conspiracy; that caused her losing the presidency, how she fought it all off to just to resign at the end probably made everyone feel "much ado about nothing"?. However, it was the unexpected surprise that gave this season maybe more depth because it also tied into what Keane needed.
I think "train wreck" is putting it lightly, its a disaster.
Only an IDIOT will think: "This season 7 is the best season so far.".
and our poster "Corcky666" just proved it...Lol
to make a blank statement without even a supporting argument as to why tells
you who you are dealing with, let alone to insult someone because of their opinion on a site like this?.
I think you hit the nail on the head, I was going to post something about this season until I saw your post. I was very disappointing in season 6 already and how it ended, but this season 7 its just a joke?
I think these writers are so desperate to keep this show on the air, so we are back to Carrie's bipolar issue and how her medication doesn't work and that's she is become so "insane""? ..I mean come' on please?..lol
I wouldn't be surprised if they bring back Quin and Brody from the dead and have a twist that maybe it was all a dream Carrie had. We are 3 episode short of the finale and yet the story line still has holes in it like last week' we saw Paley come to see Simone and almost coach her and it was as if he is also part of the Russian conspiracy and now he is the victim (UI)?...lol
This show has such a name and its so popular that its' already slated for another two seasons and what does that tell you? it means no matter how bad and stupid it gets people will watch it because it has a huge following, the same thing happened with "Dexter", it should have ended in the 5th season but they just kept going and it got really bad.
I thought this was the last season ?
where did you read that the show is getting revised?
This was a very disjointed 5th season, given Abbey's death but with all the flashbacks and
it just felt incoherent at times. It was not bad a season it just seemed that Ray's world
was crashing around him and the end
was coming. Ray jumping into the water and the last shot also was another sign it was the end,
but I hope I am wrong. I think what the writers could have added was more scenes with
the social worker /therapist instead of lumping into one final analysis and Ray's issue.
Also about your comment on Bunchy and what you said?
"What is more preposterous, though, is Darryl taking advice from fucking stupid Bunchy!"
First that is really fucked up thing to say about "Bunchy", he maybe "Stupid" to you but I think
Darrly is actually more stupid to kill head of FBI and then pin it on his father who helped me to
dispose the body. Bunchy's advice was actually not that stupid, no weapon = no crime, he told him to get rid of the gun, which actually is not bad advice either. But Darrly got seduced to be a producer If you haven't figured out what Darrly's character is about then you are missing the point. Darrly is the most stupid of the four brothers, he is always trying be something that he is not, he doesn't really have an identity to himself. Bunchy' however does know himself, unlike Ray he was not strong enough to get over his childhood drama but he is smart enough to admit he needed help, the help that Ray never got, with all his insecurities from the first season, we watched Bunchy get married and be able to be a better parent to take care of a child and even tell his wife who cheated on him to leave, Bunchy maybe slow and not as sharp but that is not what I call "Stupid".
I was going to post a thread here and ask the same question. I also love this show and its among the best cables shows without a doubt. The Season 5 does feel very different and you are right kind of empty, more flashbacks of Abbey than sub plots. At the same time it does feel it is coming to a end and I really hope I am wrong too, but I checked IMBD and there is nothing listed about 2018 season 6 either?. Then again, they said the same thing about the "Sopranos" in season 5 and it went on two more seasons. This show's has a certain style in both writing and production and reminds me a lot of Micheal Mann's work.
This Youtube link you posted was really brilliant analysis.
Lol..trust me if you check all your little comments on TWIN PEAKS on this site you will find that its you talks TOO MUCH, in fact a great deal even when its not invited. OK Uncle Jerry...Lol
You people take these shows seriously and its almost hilarious as to how you get upset over something as someone's else opinion that you have never met or will ever meet in a life time, but that is the power of social media which is taken a lot of valuable time of people with a lot of time on their hand.
I am also a Lynch fan, but more of fan of his films than Twin Peaks series. If you recall my first thread here about the 3rd season, when I said almost the same thing you are saying now about the this 3rd season was not received well by other Lynch fans. To me the writing was on the wall from the very beginning, the incoherent became even more incoherent, irrelevant random scenes and characters that had nothing to do with the story line, the use of old cast as just to fill the screen time and make the audience reminisce the old Twin Peaks, all the musical ending in the road house and those random conversations from characters whom none were part of the story, using the old cast also was another kind of manipulation and distraction to story that at the end was much ado about nothing.
As far as the VFX, well, that's just Lynch's signature goes back all the way to "Eraserhead" and yes it does seem cheesy and crappy, because we are in a different time period, 25 years gap, where this kind of VFX seems dated. I thought when Cooper's entire face became like the water mark in the Sheriff station was even more weird?.. I wanted to understand the purpose as to why Lynch did that?.
I asked the same exact questions about Diane from the moment she got into the show and how did she got into parallel universe just as Sarah who took off her face in the bar to kill that guy?.
I really don't think the finale last night made sense or sat right with a lot of Lynch fans, maybe this is the kind of effect Lynch was going for to make everyone discuss to make sense of his chaos; when there is really nothing to make any sense from.
You are one dedicated Lynch fan, I mean he could a take a shit on a canvas and it may look like a Frog and you may still think it's a "beautiful gift"...Lol
I mean come on man, you got to at some point stop being the FANBOY and start questioning what you are watching. You really think this Season 3 was planned and thought through for a show that was cancelled in just two seasons?. No, I think Lynch just went with the trend of the revival of old movies coming back, which for the most part none of them have been really a success case in point: i.e. Jason Bourne).
I wont deny I liked some of Season 3 and even the ending but it was the most incoherent 18 hours of Lynch's entire career, none of the pieces fit together, he used the old cast as just props to lure us into a maze, a maze where you were lost into a maze of narratives that had nothing to do with each other or the story. Narratives like Shelly's daughter and her troubles with her crazy loser husband that went no where, Shelly's involvement with a kingpin drug dealer, that also went no where?. What was all that time wasted on Benjamin Horne and his Pot head brother Richard lost in the woods?. Yes we all enjoyed Audrey dance, but you miss the point that it had NOTHING to do with the story or the narrative line, which is something almost all hard core Lynch fans on this board kept defending and tend to over look and accept at verbatim as the Lynch Gospel being incoherent auteur and acceptable to them, that to me is when you have become a FANBOY.
Even the ending the only thing the article in the Hollywood reporter could conjure up that Cooper ended up in the alternate future, so all that was for nothing?..