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aduty1's Replies
Here's the thing, if MarkS has been joking at conventions that Crowley is going to die then it virtually ensures he will survive the finale. I was hoping that Jodi would be a cameo but there is a rumor that she has a scene with Mary.
The whole episode may be Dean and Jodi tearing into Mary about how awful she has been acting so she can redeem herself. Jodi dies so there is no mother figure competition and they can reboot Mary next season and try again.
If Lucifer does kill a character, it would have to be a permanent death for it to be J2's hardest finale. It would also have to be someone the fans really liked if we would hate him for it. So...
Dean- As much as some writers probably want to kill him, he's a star and wouldn't stay dead.
Sam- The writers pretty much want it to be the Sam show so he's safe.
Cas- They tried that before and it did not go well.
Crowley- Possible. It meets both criteria.
Mary- Killing her might make Lucifer more popular
That leaves Jody. She meets the criteria and that gets rid of Mary's mother figure competition. Of course that would make it much harder to do a Wayward Daughters spin off. So...Crowley?
You are right, Crowley would be equally as upsetting to fans but they have been using M2 heavily to cover J2's off days. My gut tells me it's Jody. I think they know fans would be way more upset with Jody dying than Mary. Jody would be horrible and it would make Lucifer menacing again. On the plus side, maybe they are setting up Jody for Wayward Daughters. I could be wrong, Cas and Crowley aren't on my radar and they might not kill any fan favorites at all. I just really think Jody's number is up.
Ummm....I went to the Ibelieveinthelittletreetopper spoiler site and I have a pretty good idea who Lucifer might kill. Suffice it to say, I will hate it and Lucifer if they go there. I don't know if this is the right place to discuss it and it would be a major spoiler so go there if you are interested. Look at some of the guest cast for 12x22 and see if you think the same thing.
"Bottom line, this show desperately needs far more competent showrunning than it has now. If the showrunning was better and stronger, then even weak writers would turn out better scripts, and it wouldn't be as obvious that the two leads have cut their time."
You hit the nail on the head. The problem is in the execution. They know the availability better than anyone and they need to account for it. If J2 are only available for 3 days or they need to save days for a J2 heavy shoot, spread the days out. Have J2 together 1 day for start of the ep and the recap. Send them off on separate hunts or have the hunt require them to be in separate places. Just get them back together at the end of the ep or develop a decent story for the other characters. One of my top 10 eps is Weekend at Bobby's and my second favorite ep of season 11 was Don't call me Shurley.
They used to be able to handle this better. Maybe Dabb and Singer were off those days.
Dean definitely has to have a story. Trouble is they are available 87 days a season and probably less when they negotiate season 14. We are stuck with either several episodes where Sam and Dean are in a ten minute side story or they split them up and we get more time with the characters we care about. Jensen wanted the Demon Dean arc to go longer with the two split and I think that would have worked for a few episodes.
If they split the two for some episodes (but still reunite or stay in contact) they could weave in episodes where the boys are in all five acts. It is very noticeable how little Sam and Dean are around this year and the Dean in the woods thing is getting ridiculous.
I'm just trying to be realistic. J2 aren't available as much as they have been in the past. The show has to work around this. Not much of what Dabb has been throwing around has worked particularly now that Mick is out of the picture. I have seen a lot of positivity about Eileen especially her interactions with Sam.
With J2's new schedule, it's time they split the boys up a bit. Sam and Dean chained at the hip results in episodes like the other night where they are in it for about 10 minutes. If they split up more that doubles it to 20 minutes or about half the episode.
They just have to come up with better story lines. Sam and Eileen hunting together more could be fun. They HAVE to give Dean a storyline. Single hunts or hell bring back Benny. Come up with something with Crowley beside the eternal one up man ship between him and Lucifer. Let Crowley and Castile do the buddy cop thing for awhile, that was great.
They have to do something. The majority of this season is just not working.
The best option left is for Carver to come back. For all of his faults he knew how key Dean is to the show and actually gave him stories. It was Singer that cut down the Purgatory and Demon Dean arc. I don't know if Carver got burned out or wanted to have his own show but you could tell he turned over the reigns in Season 11.
If they make it to 300 (which they may not with the current crew) I'm still hopeful for the show's future. Jensen has been pushing a SPN movie at the con's and Jared has been extremely enthusiastic for limited seasons or a movie run on Netflix. That could be really good.
I think it has, at least in the demo's. The premier was at .8, now we have had a couple of .5's. I still believe there will be at least one .4 this year. That means Dabb cut the demo in half. Dabb can try and spin that but that isn't normal for this show.
I don't think anyone really believes the promos anymore. My theory is if Dean is a part of the story or if *gasp* they actually give him an episode, the ratings go up the next week. Every time they ignore Dean (or both Sam and Dean) the ratings go down. I was afraid we might really hit a .5 this year. Now I'm pretty sure we will hit a .4 and no one is to blame more than Dabb. That would cut the ratings in half this year from the premiere. Someone HAS to realize it is not the show. The fans are still here. They just need a new show runner.
Not surprised about that after last weeks disappointment. Unfortunately, after last night I think we will see our first .4 next week. :(
Great....one of the only things I liked about this season is gone. Least we still have Mary and Ketch...groan.
"someone stole the colt."
What.....AGAIN!!!!
I think it is because no matter how low your expectations are anymore the episode manages to go lower. I feel like I have already seen this episode. The only hope I have left is that Yockey and Bring have a couple of decent episodes. I have lost all faith in the others that are left.
You are about to watch my favorite season in the middle of my favorite arc. I envy you. I wish I could see it for the first time again.
I really hope you are wrong about that but now that you say it I'm actually worried. I LOVE the bunker. It was one of the best things they ever came up with. It would be as bad as Season 7 when they decided to strip the boys of everything including Cas, Bobby and baby.
If this is J2 light then they better be ready for another ratings drop next week. You can only fool people for so long by making the main characters look like they have a big story when its really about side characters. I can't say that is the only reason for the drops but continually getting peoples hopes up then crushing them only gets you so far.
Nothing in these or the promo's that are inspiring any confidence. Looks like Sam is going to be the official Colt keeper and big boss slayer from here out. I think it will be a skip for me.
This is pure speculation on my part. I don't know if the show is winding down but I do watch the con footage and interviews. I know they want a spin off and since the web series and Bloodlines didn't lead anywhere, I think that is what is happening now.
I also know the J's have a home life so the show runners need to come up with better storylines for the other characters. Cas has Angel trouble and is searching for Kelly. Crowley and Lucifer are sitting around out snarking each other. Mary was out finding herself. None of these were the most compelling storylines. Now the Cas/Crowley buddy cop hunting team, THAT had potential.
One of the Bloodlines interviews I read was how they introduced new characters instead of building from established characters. Right now, nothing they have shown will support a spin off. Hence, my concern that next season and the remainder of this will build up side characters at Sam and Dean's expense.