MovieChat Forums > Owlwise > Replies
Owlwise's Replies
Even the shoddiest movies were made a little better by his presence.
A great misreading, though! :)
Agreed! :)
You make a good point. My expectations were high, and even partially fulfilled by some aspects of the film. Maybe they were unrealistically high, though? That does happen sometimes, after all. I certainly don't begrudge you or anyone else the pleasure that you found in it; it's always great when a film resonates with the viewer, isn't it?
All the right elements were there, but for me, they didn't quite come together enough. There were specific things I did like quite a bit, but not the film as a whole. And I'm sorry about that, as I did want to like it more. Sally Hawkins was reason enough to watch it, I have to say! :)
It struck me as del Toro trying to make a Tim Burton film, and not succeeding. Strange, because I like the talent involved, I like the design of the gill man … but Michael Shannon's villain was the sort of role he can play in his sleep. Burton might have made it work, maybe, but that wasn't the case here. I did want to like it, but in the end, the original Creature From The Black Lagoon has more poetry & more integrity, a solid B-film, while The Shape of Water is a moderate-at-best would-be A-list film.
I have to disagree with the OP. The problem isn't with older movies, which were made with the best effects available at the time—the problem is with viewers unable or unwilling to stretch themselves beyond their digital comfort zone & appreciate those films overall. In this case, it's a film (as noted by Otter's comment) with "wit, cleverness, and charm"—all of which matter far more in the end than special effects.
The special effects of today's favorites of today will be equally outdated before we know it. Will those films hold up for their scripts & atmosphere the way TIME BANDITS does? Or for that matter, the 1940s THIEF OF BAGHDAD. Or the original KING KONG? Those older effects have their own beauty & power, if one is willing to accept them. And they're in service to strong films with strong stories, which is more than can be said about all too many modern films, where special effects are basically all they've got going for them.
Sadly true these days. Crime films? Let the F-bombs fly! They certainly belong there. But Star Trek has supposedly evolved past that, for the most part. And even if you don"t buy that (and I can see why one might not), it's not the Star Trek sensibility. Previous series had no problem with characters expressing themselves in anger or outrage or hatred without the swearing. It strikes me as pandering in this case, as well as being a shortcut to avoid the hard work of writing better dialogue.
Thank you for this informative post. Persona is as much visual poetry as straightforward narrative, making superb use of the symbolic image … not in a simplistic "A stands for B" sort of way, but as in each image containing a multitude of meanings & emotional resonances, certainly differing to some degree for each viewer. And each of those images connected to & interacting with the other images to make that web of meanings & emotional resonances even more rich & complex.
Agreed. While I certainly found it quite moving in my youth, it didn't have the deeply visceral impact that it does now, when I'm in my mid-60s. Having watched my own father die, this film strikes right to my heart now.
Good response!
I think my problem with Discovery is the same as my problem with Enterprise: going backward & retconning, rather than moving forward & exploring something new. Star Trek was always about looking ahead. That's why Next Generation worked so well, for me -- it jumped some 80+ years ahead of Kirk's time & built on what had been established, while opening new horizons. Setting new Trek series in its past strikes me as fanfic ... and not always good fanfic. I'd much rather see a new Trek series set, say, 80-100 years after Next Generation, to be honest.
Again, this is just my preference, nothing more.
I can see your valid point, but I think it's a mistake to try & pin it down to what's logical. For me, anyway, it works as a slow-building nightmare, almost surreal, with that dreamlike feeling where everything makes sense within the dream, but doesn't upon waking. What counts here is the emotional content & impact while within the film. Again, for me, anyway.
You know, now that you've called our attention to it, there does seem to be similarity!
This, exactly! The test for any film with special effects is how well they did with what was available at the time. And 2010 did just fine in that regard. And I do separate it from 2001, which is not only the best science-fiction film made to date, but is simply one of the best films of any genre, period.
The only way to appreciate & enjoy 2010 is by taking it on its own terms. And on those terms, it delivers.
If so, I hope they're real Klingons, not Discovery Klingons.
And all too timely today!
I don't see why it has to be made. The original told a complete story that's perfection, a wonderfully rewatchable film that's both funny & has heart. It says everything that needed to be said about its characters. Remakes or sequels or prequels or spinoffs claim to deliver more of what we loved in the original, but all too often they diminish the charm & fun of the original.
I have a real affection for "Free As A Bird" due to the video made to accompany it, a loving retrospective of the band's career. But both songs are lovely; I wish John had done more like them during the five years off before his death.
But chart success wasn't the most important part of his loyal following, especially in the 1970s and early 1980s. He was one of those singer-songwriters who spoke for his generation as it grew older with him. The albums were what mattered … though of course any artist likes having those Top 10 songs. :)
Still Walking is a fine, moving film … but Tokyo Story is an out-&-out masterpiece. It may not be quite as easily accessible for modern viewers as Still Walking, but it's a film that contains depths. And those depths just grow deeper over time, especially as we grow older & watch it again.