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TheMan18's Replies
Also, out of sheer curiosity, what is the difference between nihilism, indifference and pessimism? Especially since nihilism contains its fair share of the last two, or is it just a more philosophical term that means the last two former words?
And what about stuff like moral relativity or even ethical relativism? Ambiguity? Etc?
Depends on how you look at it. [nm]
Haha, lol, when I saw "18" in the title I thought the thread would somehow be about me, lol. :)
"When his views would have been common for the period?"
Well... Even if they "were", I am sure there were some moral standards even back then even for those things. But today especially they are sensitive issues and resonate strongly with many people personally.
"I prefer optimism over nihilism." Me too.
True, and also...
How many and how gritty and harsh are such facts anyway, and I don't plan on "denying" anything?
And wasn't it (and I hope this doesn't make it political) Ronald Reagan, former President of the USA and actor (he was in "The Killers" (1964) among others) who said something about "Facts are stupid things" but what did he mean?
Also, besides the fact that some people are more informed and more empathic and even empathetic, but no offense to anyone, and ignorance and stupidity sadly do exist and are possible, but it may all not be black and white simple either, but I was wondering...
Why do some people get affected and care too much and others less so etc, cheers thanks.
ALSO, can there be, in theory but especially in practice, ways OTHER than law and "policies" to sort out SOME problems, like, I don't know, some basic human way, not to impose, "troll upon" etc your original post beancrisp?
i). Other, err, Walter?
"What are you talking about?"
2 Anthony Socks - OK, I understand you have a very direct, very specific and very concrete opinion about real life capital punishment, regardless of where it takes place, including in the USA as you are also apparently aware of its minuses and nuances and generally still - you are very against it. And you apparently also believe that murder is always bad even if it applies to guilty criminals who may have also murdered innocents and possibly not just once etc as well as apparently for other reasons too.
But what am I talking about in here?
Well... For instance, how, although for a variety of complex reasons sadly not in life, but in fictional scenarios like movies and say books and fairy tales, even if not by the system, then by individuals, you have guilty criminals like murderers executed (have you seen any ACTION films Anthony, Die Hard, Lethal Weapon, James Bond films etc or even Death Wish Charles Bronson films) or just killed and not only do audiences don't blink an eye at it or say its "barbaric and wrong" but are in fact in support of it. (I also know because I've read reviews of such films for decades. Yep - no complaining there if villains get defeated at all.)
But... You have movies like this, Dead Man Walking, and other examples, even if the system really does execute say guilty individuals, and we often even then still think its bad, wrong, cruel and that, you know, they should be given many years of imprisonment instead, but if you execute them via the system, which many even say is bad and wrong in and of itself (why didn't the LAW think of that?), then its as bad or almost as bad if a murderer kills someone innocent etc and we simply wonder how right that is.
And America is what, really, a BACKWARDS nation?
And I myself am NOT saying if I totally agree OR disagree with it all, but I kind of want myself and others to come to a nice and satisfying conclusion in all of this.
And who ultimately DECIDES which is which and which side is ULTIMATELY correct here?
But then why do so many people here, seemingly intelligent ones, actually state and argue that it is so, besides the fact that in both cases there is the removal of one's life?
But then why does this movie and many people speak against the death penalty even if the culprit was guilty, and how come in some cases (yes, I know they shouldn't do it anyways but still...) they may get life imprisonment and in others death penalty, and again, why do many people say it IS falling to their level and makes us monsters if it isn't so?
Although there are also debates if mistakes happen in such a system and it isn't perfect anyway.
P.S. The reason I DON'T murder others goes WAY beyond me wanting to avoid punishments of a legal variety INCLUDING in (some places and cases) death penalty as such. And others, well, including like shown here, they do it because (although many say disturbed individuals may not also think clearly INCLUDING legal consequences, also, he may or may not for instance have even known death penalty would come to him or even that it exists, internet for instance wasn't available in 1989 etc). Of course no excuses for it all, but you can see, capital punishment does come under fire even when guilty ones as such get executed, and people question if it really IS THE "right" thing to do, with many openly saying "its wrong" (even if you don't agree liscarat, just scroll through MANY of the comments here.)
"Empathy is our true salvation, not the sacraments."
Does it ALWAYS work though, and does it apply to say mass murderers? While it may be needed, does it really like that work in all cases though?
So in your opinion jameswball, even murderous evil psychopaths in general don't deserve to die and if we kill them, that alone in and of itself makes us as bad as them right, due to some kind of err universal principle even if it isn't always, for some or other reason, recognized even by what are meant to be professional legal establishments?
"100% wrong, 100% of the time"
Even if say someone being executed is a mass murderer or even say genocidal dictator? Even if life is taken in self defence, and what, like, all 100 percent, like that?
And if it really is as wrong as we say it is, why did the law still organize it? And would you say life imprisonment for someone like Poncelet would've been a more appropriate punishment?
"Lastly, this movie's message is neither for nor against the death penalty."
While we may see it this way in this movie, as an interesting slice of trivia, both the film's director Tim Robbins and actress Susan Sarandon in real life were and still are actually against the death penalty.
And the whole film sort of came across as action thriller meets attempts at social drama, imagine something like the later film "The Hunt" (2012) crossed over with "Lethal Weapon" (1987) or "The Last Boy Scout" (1991) (SPOILERS - they even went as far as to attempt to frame Denzel Washington's character of running a particularly horrid type of sexual offenders ring as well).
Did you like the movie, Fred?
I thought the kid was literally in the bad guy's hands and wasn't exactly wearing a seatbelt either.
Speaking of sad news, I can't believe I just found this out, but an actor from this movie also passed away this year at the age of 61, Steve Sweeney - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0842199/
My God.