MovieChat Forums > Rogue One (2016) Discussion > This is pure fantasy. Women aren't heroe...

This is pure fantasy. Women aren't heroes or physical combat warriors.


How many women put themselves in harms way to save people? LOL. How many women are tougher and stronger than men?

In this whole "women empowerment" garbage where we constantly get female action stars with them besting men physically and mentally, that's as far from reality as the alien creatures featured in these stories. You don't see women working terrifying jobs or beating people in combat.

It's pure BS and these movies are nothing but social engineering of feminist garbage.

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Of course it is pure fantasy.

BUT NOT because of your stupid conclusion.



With each day the number of people on my Ignore list is growing.

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Relax pal, it's a movie.

So Was I!

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Exactly.

Let's just forget about equal representation altogether then.

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The majority of my ignored nuts come from action fan boy shows like this and GOT? What's the correlation and the cause of their reality disconnect? Here's another one to add.

There's enough stupid in this world to witness, I can do w/o being subjected to "profound" comments like this.

The irony w/these awkward (likely unsightly, probably not so smart fanboys-men-children) is that their complaints about aforementioned fantasy films is not the depiction of pet dragons, giants, aliens, wizards, wargs, magic, and Yoda, but the shocking, infuriating depiction of competent "women" leaders. SMH

I was amazed that people in this age are still that ignorant. I thought they nostly died off after Jim Crow and their descendants were an isolated microniche group... until they banded together to vote for the stupidest person I've ever seen run for POTUS. president.

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Quick, my little snowflake! Run to the nearest safe space! Run! Run!

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Google the following:
* 'YPJ Syria'
* Soviet woman in WW2
* Female resistance fighters in WW2.

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Do any of them look like a shampoo princess?

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Certainly in the youtube clips of the YPJ, some the young woman are of the same build and height of the female lead of Rouge one. Of course, they are not like what you describe as a shampoo princess and yes I do share that criticism of female leads in action orientated movies.

For me, a perfect action actress is Gina Carano and Katee Sackhoff but they are not Hollywood beauty enough to be leads in any top Hollywood movie.

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Of course, they are not like what you describe as a shampoo princess and yes I do share that criticism of female leads in action orientated movies.


That's really my only beef with the Rey character. The mere presence of a vagina doesn't bother me.

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Just a gentle reminder that was is shown in entertainment and in the media are different from the reality that you and I lead. It is just a fantasy movie showing a sanitised and family friendly view of war.

Nothing to see here, as the saying goes.

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Just a gentle reminder that was is shown in entertainment and in the media are different from the reality that you and I lead. It is just a fantasy movie showing a sanitised and family friendly view of war.


What's interesting though is that when Episode IV came out in 1977 it was lauded as gritty and realistic. The concept of a "used universe" alone in science fiction had never been done like this and was revolutionary in terms of film making.

Now of course that SJWs want what they want, now it's just a fantasy film meant for entertainment.

50% of the real world is women they yelp, so 50% of the characters in Star Wars should represent women. Equal representation!

But in the real world wars (Star Wars) are predominately fought by men. To which SJWs chant, "it's just a fantasy film," and usually capitalize the entire word fantasy.

Just some gentle reminders for you.

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This film has nothing to do with equal representation no matter how badly you try to twist things. You're trying too hard to create a drama where none exists...

...or perhaps not hard enough? If you actually cared enough about this (fabricated) "issue" to do something about it then you wouldn't be whining about it on these forums where your complaints will go largely unnoticed.

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This film has nothing to do with equal representation no matter how badly you try to twist things. You're trying too hard to create a drama where none exists...


Well then how come all the SJWs cried out "equal representation!" when Lucasfilm was sold to Disney?

Here's an example:

http://makingstarwars.net/2014/04/editorial-representation-isnt-a-womens-issue-in-star-wars-fandom/

...or perhaps not hard enough? If you actually cared enough about this (fabricated) "issue" to do something about it then you wouldn't be whining about it on these forums where your complaints will go largely unnoticed.


You know, parroting me isn't going to automatically give you coherent arguments.

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There is a difference between UNDER representation and EQUAL representation.


You know, parroting me isn't going to automatically give you coherent arguments.
Irrelevant since I'm not parroting you, just pointing out the ineffectuality of your trolling...

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There is a difference between UNDER representation and EQUAL representation.


What is that difference?

Irrelevant since I'm not parroting you, just pointing out the ineffectuality of your trolling...


Expressing contrary opinions and asking questions is trolling? You must be a snowflake!

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I suggest you consult a dictionary for the difference or perhaps retake high school maths.

Films reflect the society in which they're made and until recently Hollywood was sexist and is still somewhat racist. Introducing a few female and non white characters into a fantastical setting goes some way towards redressing this.

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Under representation and equal representation do not appear in the dictionary, and besides, progressive pea-brains like to change definitions of words with the seasons anyway.

So tell me brainiac, what is the difference between under representation and equal representation?

Or do you yourself not know?

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Their meanings are literally self explanatory. Under representation is based on judgement (subjective) while equal representation is empirical (objective).

Women and non whites have historically been under represented in Hollywood. This doesn't mean they deserve equal representation.

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Star Wars was many things but it wasn't being gritty and realistic. I mean it had guys running about with capes and swords made of light as well as everybody else firing laser guns at each other. If you honestly think SW isn't a fantasy film you do need to catch a grip.

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Star Wars was many things but it wasn't being gritty and realistic. I mean it had guys running about with capes and swords made of light as well as everybody else firing laser guns at each other. If you honestly think SW isn't a fantasy film you do need to catch a grip.


Ahh, but you have to keep in mind the 1977 audience.

It isn't gritty and realistic by today's standards, but it certainly was by 1977's standards. Remember, the audience had only seen science fiction films like Logan's Run, Barbarella, the original Star Trek series, where things primarily looked hokey and unbelievable.

Star Wars changed that.

You'd know this if you had read periodicals of the time such as Starlog, you would have read multiple articles lauding Star Wars for its gritty and realistic take on the old Flash Gordon serials from the 30s and 40s.

But this is why people who weren't alive at the time, should really just close their ignorant mouths and listen and learn from those who were.

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The style may be gritty and realistic but it doesn't mean the content was even back then. Blake's 7 was on TV at about the same time and was a lot more darker and grittier than Star Wars. You could argue that the have similar stories but there is no comparison between the two in terms of content.

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ANH was never dark and gritty. Only tESB can claim that.

ANH is about the rescue of the princess by a farmer and a scoundrel followed by a heroic "Dambusters" attack on a superweapon. The interrogation scene with Leia was never included in any of the edits and the goriest scene in the film is probably Luke returning home to find the charred remains of his Uncle and Aunt. ANH would probably qualify as PG13!

Mad Max, The Black Hole, Alien, Silent Running and even Star Trek:TMP were all darker and grittier sci-fi films from the late 70s.

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The style may be gritty and realistic but it doesn't mean the content was even back then. Blake's 7 was on TV at about the same time and was a lot more darker and grittier than Star Wars. You could argue that the have similar stories but there is no comparison between the two in terms of content.


Great. But very few Americans were watching Blake's 7 in 1977 because if it aired at all it aired on PBS at 3 a.m. in the morning, and no where else.

Yes, the content was considered gritty as well. It was considered a realistic interpretation of the old Flash Gordon serials of the 30s and 40s. That's how it became the success it was in 1977. No one had ever seen anything like it.

The "fantasy" arguments ignore the very brutal violence depicted in the Cantina, not to mention the smoldering corpses of Luke's aunt and uncle. These things were never seen in science fiction films before hand in this level of realism.

I think most of the people who comment on this film haven't seen it in recent memory.

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Also had forgotten about Soylent Green which was made a few years earlier and was intelligent Sci-fi with a hard edge. There was also a lot of serious films with a sci-fi element before SW like The Andromeda Strain, The man who fell to earth and even the Hammer pictures like the Quartermain trilogy.

Therefore your argument about movie audiences not being used to serious sci-fi/fantasy films, it does not follow.

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And yet, that's what happened anyway.

Look, you're talking about films with some good concepts and screenplays, but with visual cheese. The depictions of the future and of technology looked like plastic and cardboard.

Star Wars simply changed all of that.

You can argue against that if you like. But if you ever go to film school or learn film history on your own, you'll be embarrassed that you're arguing with things that you've made up against someone who actually knows and who was there at the time.

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I think Kate Sackhoff is hot ....she could Suckmehoff
God Damn! We just had a near-life experience, fellas.

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I get that some men only want to see other men running around, wrestling, getting all sweaty, without any females to show up and ruin the fantasy. All I can do is gently suggest you stick to movies like "300" or maybe "Top Gun" for your fantasies.

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How many times do you plan on copying and pasting that same statement that responds to points that no one is making?

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Every time someone complains that a yucky female character showed up in Star Wars and ruined their fantasies. Maybe Star Wars just isn't for you. Like I said, stick to "300" or "Top Gun" and you'll be happy.

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But, no one has complained that a yucky female character showed up in Star Wars and ruined their fantasies. You're responding to points that no one is making.

Maybe Star Wars just isn't for you.


Disney-era Star Wars is definitely not for me.

Like I said, stick to "300" or "Top Gun" and you'll be happy.


Can I watch Alien or Terminator or the 5th Element or Underworld instead?

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Don't watch Alien -- the female character of Ripley is smarter than the male characters, so you probably won't like that. And seriously, DO NOT WATCH "Terminator" because we're told Sarah Conner ends up teaching men how to fight, and that will surely offend you. I think I saw "Underworld" but can't remember, so it's probably crap -- don't watch that one, because it's crap and a waste of your time.

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But what if I like all of those?

Are you able to discern the difference between well written strong female leads and poorly written strong female leads? If so, could you name some poorly written strong female leads for us?

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If so, could you name some poorly written strong female leads for us?

Ellen ("The Lady") in The Quick and the Dead (Sharon Stone)
Dr. Ryan Stone in Gravity (Sandra Bullock)
Evelyn Salt in Salt (Angelina Jolie)
Lara Croft in Tomb Raider (Angelina Jolie)
Aeon Flux in Aeon Flux (Charlize Theron)
Alice from the Resident Evil series (Milla Jovovich) - Ok in the first film only
Seline from the Underworld series (Kate Beckinsale) - Ok in the first film only

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I agree with this list. Some even wander into the Mary Sue territory.


I saw Aeon Flux and I was like HOLD ON but then you meant the movie and not the series--so I calmed down.



https://www.fanfiction.net/s/12314774/1/A-Loathsome-Lodestone Star Wars fic KrennicxMothma
http://www.fictionpress.com/s/3042433/1/The-Blackstall-Curve time travel novel

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So why do you have such a beef with critics of the Rey character?

It's not like poorly written strong female leads have never happened before, so this shouldn't be new stuff.

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So why do you have such a beef with critics of the Rey character?

Where did I say this?

Rey is somewhat of a Mary Sue which makes her far less interesting than Jyn. Her abilities must be explained in Episode VIII, otherwise she's too perfect to identify with. A female lead was long overdue but we still need a well written female lead.

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Where did I say this?


My mistake, I thought you were someone else.

I agree with most of your comments, though I'm not sure that a female lead was long overdue, given that Leia was a female lead 40 years ago.

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Compared to Luke we learned didly squat about Leia considering she's in all 3 films of the OT. Indeed, Vader was also her father yet her relationship with him was never explored. I didn't have a problem with this because Luke and Leia had different upbringings which led them to take different paths. For whatever reason Leia never embraced her affinity with the force.

TFA was clearly intended as a reboot of ANH for a new generation. The film has too many references to, and borrows too much from, ANH to be anything else. I think this was a mistake but if JJ was set on doing this then it makes sense to make the new "Luke" a young girl as we've not seen a female Jedi of any importance on screen yet.

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You've never heard of the women of the IDF, I see.

Requiescat in pace, Krystle Papile. I'll always miss you. Justice was finally served.

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I had forgotten about the IDF although I believe woman in that force are now only assigned to border patrol rather than front-line positions. Please note I am not denigrating these woman's training or fighting readiness as from what I've read they have distinguished themselves in action and ready to fight when required.

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You don't see women working terrifying jobs or beating people in combat.

So what? You don't see talking droids or aliens or planet destroying weapons either...

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Right. So there's no need for equal representation.

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This is a story set in a fantasy universe so the cast could be all men, all women or a mix of both depending on the narrative. Given that women make up 50% of our population and films are about ACTING I see no problem with women making up a substantial part of the cast, including characters who fight, such as soldiers.

For those who are slow on the uptake, this is because they're pretending to be soldiers the same way those aren't really talking droids or aliens...

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Right. But what percentage ratio of men vs. women actually fight wars (Star Wars)?

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Whatever percentage the writers deem fit.

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No, I mean in the same world that you cite 50% population of women in?

In that very same world, which has no writers, what is the percentage of men vs. women who actually fight wars?

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That world is our world. Now, in our world what is the percentage of droids that talk?

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That world is our world. Now, in our world what is the percentage of droids that talk?


I'm not sure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW3_Ft1t0mY

But if the point you're making here is that a fantasy film doesn't have to be reflective of our world, then why would it matter if our world has a 50% female population?

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Your YouTube link doesn't work. Regardless my question is as irrelevant as yours.

Your enthusiasm for argument is preventing you from seeing my point.

I was referring to the fact that since half our population are women it shouldn't be surprising if this is reflected in the roles available to actors in our films.

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The films may have silly creatures but the plots/themes are absolutely based on reality and concepts that we can understand. The other stuff is secondary and given how far left the writers are, it's so preachy to keep pushing this BS myth.

It also gives women a false reality. "I'm tough. I can do anything a man can do." Hey Earl called off today. Can you fill in for him in the coal mines? "Nooo, I'm just going to do secretary work and play on my phone."

Feminists are all about "equality" when it's convenient for them but coincidentally STFU when they want privileges to play the helpless woman card.

Anyways, all of these "women are badasses and men are stupid" movies are getting old.

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These films aren't feminist just because you see them that way.

Who are you to decide what women in the fantasy setting of someone else's story should be capable of?
Exactly. You're nobody.

Your argument about the dangers of a false reality is as ridiculous as it is comical.

Do you really have such a low opinion of women that you believe this film will inspire them to rebel violently against authority because they can't tell the difference between Star Wars and real life.

I doubt you're as critical about the equally fantastical Marvel movies, IMF force or James Bond?

Regardless, there is little cause for complaint with Rogue One. The vast majority of the characters in this fantasy war film (including the droid) are men. Indeed, there are only a handful of females in the entire cast.

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These movies aren't about coal mining, they're about rebelling against oppressive governments, and there have always been women rebels.

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... there have always been women rebels.
_____________________
😄 They become a parody of a rebel, as they can't match the stronger force and drive of a male rebel. Sorry you drew the short straw in the gender stakes; but whatever headway females make, they will still be trailing behind males.

Don't eat the whole ones! Those are for the guests. 🍪

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"It also gives women a false reality. "I'm tough. I can do anything a man can do." Hey Earl called off today. Can you fill in for him in the coal mines? "Nooo, I'm just going to do secretary work and play on my phone."

Why do you think that is message? Why not, "I am a girl, I'm tough, and I can accomplish great things in life like Jyn."

Why do you automatically assume a women thinks she can or should work in coal mines or best men after seeing Jyn? To me, if I am inspired by Jyn and her crew it is the idea that little people can rise up and do great things, even taking down someone far more powerful. I would be inspired to run a tough mudder, be an executive, to speak out, to fight.



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"It also gives women a false reality. "I'm tough. I can do anything a man can do." Hey Earl called off today. Can you fill in for him in the coal mines? "Nooo, I'm just going to do secretary work and play on my phone."

Why do you think that is message? Why not, "I am a girl, I'm tough, and I can accomplish great things in life like Jyn."

Why do you automatically assume a women thinks she can or should work in coal mines or best men after seeing Jyn? To me, if I am inspired by Jyn and her crew it is the idea that little people can rise up and do great things, even taking down someone far more powerful. I would be inspired to run a tough mudder, be an executive, to speak out, to fight.


Exactly, Zxantosdragon! Males have been inspired by James Bond, Captain Kirk, and Batman for decades now. Did it give them false impressions about their abilities? How many guys put on a mask and cape and tried to be vigilantes?

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If you're terrified simply by the IDEA that a woman could physically best you, then I think you genuinely realise deep down that this is a thing that could happen. Otherwise you wouldn't be bothered by the "fantasy".

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No one is terrified simply by the idea that a woman could physically best anyone, even when the word idea is entirely capitalized.

You're making that point up just so you can respond to it, but you're responding to a point that no one is making.

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I'm not making up anything, I'm stating a fact - if teh manbabies weren't scared of the portrayal of strong women, it wouldn't be an issue.

No one genuinely believes a litte boy could outsmart two home invaders in real life, yet no one freaked out about the "fantasy" of Home Alone. No one genuinely believes a dog could play basketball, but where were the screaming masses complaining about Air Bud?

But the difference here is that there ARE women who could easily kick a man's rear in a fight. Sorry, but that's a simple fact.

And this upsets you greatly.

And it makes me laugh.

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But the difference here is that there ARE women who could easily kick a man's rear in a fight. Sorry, but that's a simple fact.
And this upsets you greatly.
And it makes me laugh

But, you're not laughing, another form of deceit. You are angry.

And the woman you speak who could kick a man's ass is likely %01 of women, so not much to boast about (unless you consider the 200 lb bulldykes who may as well be men) What are you going to do, use the little martial-arts training to prove how big tough you are? Once a man gets a hold of you, your neck would be snapped in about 15 seconds. You're dreaming, sweetie. This must upset you 🐷

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Oh, I'm a dude 😊 sorry. So I have nothing to be "angry" about.

I just happen to be one of those dudes who's masculinity isn't fragile enough to be threatened by the mere concept of a fictional strong woman.

And that's what makes me laugh, you see....because I'm thinking about what would happen if some of you guys came across a REAL LIFE strong woman. if a fictional one makes you this upset, I'm guessing a real one will make you soil yourselves 

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you're a dude? Duh. You mean you are male. I have a good idea what type of masculine man you are.

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Well yes, because I just explained it to you.

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Ridiculous. You're arguing just to argue. There's no reason to target this guys language. Stop acting like everyone has to be a carbon copy of you to be an acceptable human being. Argue a *beep* point, don't insult stupid *beep* things like the word "dude".

*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours

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Stop acting like everyone has to be a carbon copy of you to be an acceptable human being. Argue a *beep* point, don't insult stupid *beep* things like the word "dude".


That's a perfect description of the left mentality since Obama took office.

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Not sure what you're getting at, but okay.

*With her alive-nostrils once snaggle front-tooth crossing the other and wear bangs -InherentlyYours

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