Does God Exist?

lol you will see it at the ending of Aguirre

The same way you determine god exists from reading books?

Makalli,

Your quote from the Knight is right to focus on what he thinks he is after. One question about him and his search is whether he has been considering this for some time, or whether his first encounter with the Death character is seen as at least in taht regard an opportunity.

The encounter with Death must be understood as a trigger for what amounts to an accelerated consideration of being toward death. In that connection I understand his chess game as a holding off of death itself. But I don't see the Knight as thinking he's really going to win the game. Certainly by the time, which is not near the film's end by any means, that Death hears him discussing his game strategy, and Block inadvertently gives Death an advantage, he must realize his odds of winning are very small. And of course it is never clear exactly what Block would attain with a win. He was not promised immortality, for example. I think this is treated as it is by Bergman because we are not really meant to consider the prospect that the Knight might actually win the game. Instead it is a mere holding off of the inevitable (as not coincidentally it is for all of us).

What Block is attempting is to obtain a level of knowledge that none of us have, at least insofar as religions require a certain minimum amount of faith. On one level his purpose is clear - he wishes to eliminate his existential anxiety by having God reveal Himself. And implicitly say to Block that He will provide for Block after death, with an afterlife.

A critical portion of the film in this regard is the specific conversation between the Knight and Death were he asks Death what Death knows about God. His assumption is that Death is uniquely positioned to answer those questions. But Death demurs. Why?

Some might say the answer is virtually obvious, at least insofar as Bergman intended. And that is that Death says nothing because there is no God. But of course that is far from the only answer possible here.

In fact if one considers that Death is shown to be not entirely trustworthy as to his truthfulness (as we saw when he in effect misused his ability to take from Block's misplaced confidence in his listener about his chess strategy), then we can well ask why Death would have felt he should provide a truthful answer to Block in the first place. Death is obviously shown to be dismissive, even contemptuous, of the expressions of existential anxiety he encounters from others (such as the actor up the tree) as he is about to take them out of this world. Why then should Death tell Block what Death well might know in answer to the questions? He would appear to be under no obligation to do so.

But of course there is also the possibility that Death knows no more about God than we do. I know that sounds counterintuitive. But does Death really have to know what happens after he does his work in this world? In that connection the conceit in the film is that Death is a character. But looked at existentially in its practical elements, death is nothing more or less than a process by which living things become no longer alive. What condition might then the dead find themselves in is not, as a matter of categorical necessity, something death as a process would necessarily be involved in (although clearly as a matter of logic and metaphysics what process leads to a different state of existence affects that state, and contains within the process the result that occurs). In other words Death need not know what happens after he finishes his work. In fact he may not even care. Why should he?

In short my point is after having watched this film multiple times, I have come to recognize that the fact that Death does not assist Block in answering his questions seeking certainty about God may be for a number of different reasons. I have to think Bergman intended it as such. It therefor follows that The Seventh Seal is not to be viewed as some final confirmation of an atheistic point of view.

When one considers this film's place in Bergman's overall work, we can see that his very next film, Wild Stawberries, again takes up the general subject of existential anxiety. It makes no sense then to view The Seventh Seal as a final word on the subject.

Yeah... wouldn't want someone trying to argue with LOGIC or historical FACTS, now would you? Let's just accept everything you say on "faith," and ignore all that scientific mumbo jumbo.


You completely misunderstood what I was saying. Completely. I was responding to people in this thread and elsewhere who claim that they can prove the Bible is wrong. They make claims that logic and science is on their side. That's a big load of bull. Their arguments can easily be countered. Their arrogance is actually pathetic.