I don't know much about the politics of the situation. But Russia wants to invade Ukraine ... how and why does America get so involved?
I get they want to effect world peace and prevent loss of life, but is America the world's policeman?
So you would be ok with Russia invading your country, killing your family and no one giving a shit about it?
shareSo America = world’s policeman?
shareWhy not? Would be nice to have a super power policing other superpowers.
Without America chances are China would have invaded Taiwan and maybe even few other countries. Russia would have openly taken Ukraine by now and few other East European countries as well.
Probably for people like you that would be the desired outcome.
russia isn't a superpower
shareRussia hasn’t been a superpower since the Cold War. USA, I think, lost its superpower status in the mid-late 2000s
shareits a great power. After Afghanistan Russia just didn't have the ability to project power far off. of course with the internet any country with competent hackers can wreak havoc. but as for being able to project military power worldwide, they cannot.
apparently as I looked into it however even great powers can do that. so I am probably wrong. either way they seem only capable of mostly bullying and projecting power on their weak former satellite socialist neighbours
USA has never lost the superpower status.
There is no other country that has a comparable military power. Not Russia, Not China. I'm not sure how you define a "superpower" ...
Ask England what they think about America. And France while you're at it. Maybe even ask Germany.
shareBut you didn't really answer: would you be ok if Russia would invade your country and nobody would react, would let you and your family be killed?
shareHas Russia killed any families in Ukraine?
Are you really asking this????
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#
Yes
shareOk, and the answer is: yes, Russia has killed families in Ukraine.
Remember Holodomor? Oh, right, you don't.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Holodomor
And you have a link to the tens of thousands of victims of Russian intervention in East Ukraine.
Have Russians killed Ukranian families this week?
And what on earth has Holodomor got to do with Putin (or are you just trying to beef up your numbers?)
Have Russians killed Ukrainian families this last minute?
It's funny how you move your goalpost when proven wrong.
Holodomor has to do with your question which was about Russia killing Ukrainian families. Did you forget this quick?
Actually, your own inclusion of Holodomor (quote) "Moved the goalposts" (around 90 years prior) which is why I questioned it.
You may have noticed that this thread (if not page) is about Vladimir Putin and the current situation he is in at the moment (not Stalin)
No goal-posts moved from my end....just seeking perspective to your earlier claim of (quote) "Russia invading your country, killing your family and no one giving a shit about it?" whataboutism.
That's all.
"No goal-posts moved from my end....just seeking perspective to your earlier claim of (quote) "Russia invading your country, killing your family and no one giving a shit about it?" whataboutism."
And I provided a link with the lives lost since Russia invaded Ukraine few years ago - under Putin.
You moved it to ... last week. That IS moving the goal post.
Or are you trying to say, I don't know, that Putin was not in Power when they took Crimea and invaded (not officially but the Russian army was there practically) Ukraine??
Russia is known for this kind of acts since the dawn of it's history. And although it happened decades ago yeah, it did took members of my family and threw them in communist prisons.
This thread pertains to Putin and his actions this week (hence the U.S. intervention) which is why i asked for verification as to what he'd done more recently. I'm fully aware of the Russia/Ukraine conflicts. In another post (just below this) you actually talk about the current sutuation for what it is ('current') Whereas, when I asked....you decided treat me to a (largely unwarranted) 'history-Lesson'
The media's narrative is that Putin is riding a tank *right now* murdering Ukranians....which is why threads (with questions like the OP are asking) are all over the internet. This isn't a thread about Holodomor or Crimea.
Personally, I think Putin is just flexing his 'muscle' on (or maybe *to*) the world stage (as with Georgia in 2008) to merely make the point that he can. Of course, matters aren't helped by his show of 'armed force' at these borders....but the media (and especially Democrats) are going overboard with the word 'invasion' (i.e, a a full-scale conquest of the entire country and occupation)
But unless it's a full scale war with Russia. (which could be fatal for EVERYONE) then I'm afraid it's nothing but 'sanctions', which even you yourself said are largely useless (as highlighted by the inactivity of either America or NATO in 2014)
The biggest problem here, is having a certified idiot like Biden in the white house (just itching, like Putin, to flex his muscles on the world stage)
My personal prediction is that (after much futile huffing and puffing....from BOTH sides) a compromise would see Russia left to remain in Ukraine, via some constitutional status, which would include veto rights, say-so's over fundamental changes in the Ukrainian order.....but hardly the bloodbath the media, America (or even your history books) would have you believe.
"This thread pertains to Putin and his actions this week (hence the U.S. intervention) which is why i asked for verification as to what he'd done more recently
You just cannot pretend like the present situation is happening in a vacuum and the historical events (specially the ones from the last years) that are DIRECTLY to the Ukrainian situation/war are somehow unrelated or never happened.
The Ukraine situation didn't start "last week" but a long time ago, when Putin used EXACTLY the same tactic to get Crimea from ... surprise ... Ukraine. Or the same thing that they did to Georgia.
But now it's even worse since there is a war already in the region.
All facts that YOU chose to ignore and say "Putin did nothing wrong in the last 2 days". Really?
So you either don't know the facts either chose to ignore everything.
I'm not pretending anything (nor do I claim to be an expert) In fairness my initial post should have included the words "This Week" simply because that's the timeframe we're dealing with right now. It was not intended as a 'gotcha' question or 'goalpost-movage'
I only asked for recent evidence, because as even you have admitted, the U.S or NATO have done nothing in the past. So what exactly has lead to U.S intervention this time (i.e, right now) is what I'm asking? Obama did nothing in 2014, nor Bush in 2008.
I've already gave you my 'take' on why I think Putin is doing what he's doing. Like the OP, I think the biggest problem I have with all this, is Biden (because, despite being as thick as a whale omelette, he has bigger toys than Putin)
Biden will no nothing either. That's clear to everyone.
And the way Putin made it (again) kinda makes the situation unclear and it's harder for the USA to intervene ...
I bet if Trump was the president Putin would have at least delayed the invasion, sorry - peacemaking ... LMAO.
You're free to think that and you can also believe in the Tooth Fairy. That's about how insightful your speculation is.
shareI don’t know what you’re trying to get at. Russia HAS murdered Ukrainian civilians during these past two days.
shareYes.
shareunless Russia has managed to do what no other nation history has, and end wartime civilian casualties, then yes Russia will kill families if it invades.
your "logic" is nonsensical.
its like asking
"well has the nuclear bomb killed any civilians yet? no see its fine"
And them replying "well it hasn't been used yet"
and you saying "well see nukes are fine then!"
Actually NATO is the one who should be involved, not the US. The reason the US is involved is to distract from the epic failure our current president is re:
Covid
Foreign policy
Economy
Inflation
The ability to not shit oneself on national tv.
Any questions?
US will not get involved exactly because the US government is an epic failure.
First step: sanctions (sanctions, hahahaha) on the 2 "new republics". Hilarious and sad at the same time ...
amazing how the vast majority of covid deaths during Biden are in red states. where they refused to enforce mandates and protections.
how is Biden to blame for republican incompetence again? do you stub your toe and blame Biden for that too? ill wait
World peace and loss of life...yeah right look at Iraq, Syria and other places around the world that America's policy ruined and caused the death of countless people.
American politicians don't know crap about the world.
Do you know the story behind Ukraine ? I bet you don't...how would you feel if China builds military bases in Canada and Mexico.
World peace and loss of life...yeah right look at Iraq, Syria and other places around the world that America's policy ruined and caused the death of countless people.
May I suggest Foreign Affairs magazine.
Only $25 a year, it contains essays from the world's best thinkers and most experiencd people in the area of foreign policy.
It is a must have for anybody who is seeking knowledge to unravel the complexity in this area.
The US did sign the Budapest Memorandum back in 1994 and that made "assurances" that Ukraine's independence and territorial integrity would remain intact after giving up their nuclear arsenal. Russia, Ukraine and the UK leaders all signed this agreement. I believe the Russians are the only people who have fond memories of the Soviet Union since most of the satellite countries did not choose to be communist nations.
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2019/12/05/why-care-about-ukraine-and-the-budapest-memorandum/
Normally, nothing said before the word but matters, however you managed to do the exact opposite.
"I don't know much about the politics of the situation." That right there is where you should have stopped. Everything you typed after that is just an uninformed opinion on US foreign policy and geo-political affairs(a very complex topic).
So you have to be an expert to ask a question???
USA can’t mind their business in this matter?
It's not that simple, and people should have some intelligent history to consider before making sweeping statements of when the US should not intervene when democracy is under attack.
Why do we have the biggest - by far - military in the world, built by our tax dollars? Why have conservative administrations repeatedly called for foreign interventions, creating a huge distaste for sending troops overseas, and now use Biden's first steps at diplomatic solutions as weakness?
It's a difficult situation and calls for some thoughtful response, not some blanket assertion that it's not our business.
Asking a question does not = assertion
shareCareful--the tools on the left now consider any questioning of Brxndxn's decisions a form of insurrection. On twitter, they call anyone making anti-war statements Russian "trolls" and/or "bots." Hard to believe--the liberals, who protested against the Vietnam War, are now actively supporting war. Guess another "switch" occurred?
share