I'm personally against voting by mail (we don't have it in my country), but if the law allows it and the law says by when the vote should arrive and by when it should be counted, what are the Republicans complaining about?
shareBe aware that US is based in English culture, and English culture places a high moral value in the concept of 'fair play'. That allows to have structures that would mean political chaos in most modern democracies, particularly in Shit World Countries. For god's sake, UK doesn't even have a Constitution.
American law is not really safe against voter fraud. But since the country was based in the English culture (past tense), that never was a big problem. Massive voter fraud wouldn't have been fair play.
However, same rules don't work the same in every culture. And modern US is heavily influenced by South American and Black culture, particularly the Democrat side. In the South American mindset, cheating and corruption is OK as long as it benefits my side.
It's not that voter fraud wasn't possible before under the same laws. It was possible, and it surely happened before, but the level of massive voter fraud it seems to have happened this election, that never happened before: it would have been simply wrong. That has changed, and the system is not prepared to handle the "American" shift towards the South American mindset.
how it possible?
and why is it possible?
and where is the evidence that any fraud has occured?
Here you have an article about the red flags in the election:
https://monsterhunternation.com/2020/11/05/the-2020-election-fuckery-is-afoot/
The massive turn out alone is a red flag.share
But as for doing better…
The late night spikes that were enough to close all the Trump leads are a red flag.
The statistically impossible breakdown of the ratios of these vote dumps is a red flag.
The ratios of these dumps being far better than the percentages in the bluest of blue cities, even though the historical data does not match, red flag.
The ratios of these vote dumps favoring Biden more in these few battlegrounds than the ratio for the rest of the country (even the bluest of the blue) red flag.
Biden outperforming Obama among these few urban vote dumps, even though Trump picked up points in every demographic group in the rest of the country, red flag.
The poll observers being removed. Red flag.
The counters cheering as GOP observers are removed, red flag.
The fact that the dem observers outnumber the GOP observers 3 to 1, red flag (and basis of the first lawsuit filed)
The electioneering at the polls (on video), red flag.
The willful violation of the court order requiring the separation of ballots by type, red flag.
USPS whistleblower reporting to the Inspector General that today they were ordered to backdate ballots to yesterday, red flag.
The video of 2 AM deliveries of what appear to be boxes of ballots with no chain of custody or other observers right before the late night miracle spikes, red flag.
Any of those things would be enough to trigger an audit in the normal world. This many flags and I’d be giggling in anticipation of catching some thieves.
And it isn’t that I have to do better. I’m just an gen pop observer who happens to be a retired auditor with a finely tuned bullshit detector. This is going to the courts.
But is there any proof of voter fraud. I hear people shouting that there is, but they don't actually present it.
shareVoter fraud is almost impossible to prove. It's like asking somebody to prove his innocence.
What you can check is how much the result smells. In general, the longer it takes to count the votes, the easier it is to include or exchange ballots. In mail vote, including or exchanging ballots is even easier. Electronic vote is even worse, btw.
Two days later, you don't even have a provisional result. That's extremely dangerous, because it barely gives any guarantee about the final result.
Add to that that in the remaining states the trend has suddenly changed to benefit Biden, and the whole picture stinks as hell.
Three states switching from red to blue 3 days after the election isn’t a good look at all. Very, very shady in my opinion.
I’m sure there’s been cheating in every election since the beginning of time though. I have no faith in a fair election. Hell, I bet both sides try to cheat, and the one who cheats the best wins the presidency. Haha.
This looks bad though. You know how bad the media and democrats wanted him out of there...I wouldn’t be surprised by anything.
Oh well, life goes on in a corrupt world full of shitty human beings.
Good post
shareThe shitty human beings are rump voters, and why the later ballots favor Biden is because smart people want to vote in a smart and convenient manner. Do you want everyone with rabbit ears on their TV to choose our next leader?
shareYou’re a shitty human being. You generalize entire groups of people, and then act like some self righteous “tolerant” liberal. You’re no better than the random people you hate.
shareYou're exactly right. He's done nothing but bemoan his lot in life on here for years while simultaneously preaching and trying to shame others from the self-assumed moral high ground. I'm wondering if all of that pissing and moaning will finally come to an end now.
shareThis was a genuine Laugh Out Loud moment --
"However, same rules don't work the same in every culture. And modern US is heavily influenced by South American and Black culture, particularly the Democrat side. In the South American mindset, cheating and corruption is OK as long as it benefits my side."
C'mon folks. If you buy this sort of crap, this country is in even bigger trouble than it appears to be. pubs have been condemning the RINO perspective, playing winner-take-all for decades regardless of the consequences. They consistently make outrageous and absurd claims that don't pass the toilet paper test, but they cling to them like the Rings of Uranus.
Funny thing is that your other answers to my comments show that you are a perfect example of that South American Catholic mindset which is replacing Protestant mindset in many western countries. You're a perfect example of that "cheating and corruption is OK as long as it benefits my side" mindset.
shareIn Australia we vote with a grey lead pencil on a sheet of paper. Sounds very low tech even backwards but given I have heard some of the voting machines in the USA weren't working it is probably good to keep things low tech.
We have the option of postal votes and in smaller elections like local councils that is the only way to do it.
Electronic vote is the worst possible option, way worse than low tech vote.
Check these videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3_0x6oaDmI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkH2r-sNjQs
The last census they down here had an electronic option and the system crashed! Given all our voting down here is compulsory as well as filling out the census that is pretty scary given you can get fined for not complying!
shareElectronic vote + compulsory vote is a path to hell.
That's the case in Venezuela, to name one example. Civil servants have compulsory vote. Vote is done through electronic machines that request both your identity and your vote. I repeat: the identification process is handled by the same device that handles the vote. Of course, theoretically it doesn't store a dictionary of what each person voted. Theoretically.
Voter fraud is only the first step. The second one is the legit fear that your vote can be stored linked to your ID.
Every method is so open to corruption and incompetence. I knew someone who got a job counting votes and she told me there is an "acceptable" amount of votes that can get lost!
Also with the referendum we had the other year which was by mail there were reports of the ballots not being delivered to houses in areas where people were thought more likely to vote against it as well as ballots being lost in the mail etc. The referendum or plebiscite to be precise was on gay marriage.
I think politicians have to try harder if voting isn't compulsory, something I would like to see here.
I had a job like that a couple of times.
My experience was that nothing beats simplicity. You have a table, a ballot, and representatives from both sides or from different parties. Once the election is closed, the counting takes no more than 4-5 hours. You have provisional results very quickly. Sometimes people are tired, perhaps some votes are misplaced, but in general fraud is extremely difficult.
Now, you start to complicate that, you bring ballots, you take ballots, you take days to count the votes. People enter, people leave, ballots move, chain of custody breaks... well, good luck with it.
Which means Vote By Mail is the best way to go. Low tech, would need huge amounts of manipulation EVERYWHERE to make significant effect. Most Americans are honest as they go about their jobs. rump doesn't want honest people, he wants sycophants doing his bidding. That's abundantly clear. So if anyone is cheating, it's rump, and it extends beyond him to the rest of the pub party for going on well over 20 years now.
shareWhich means Vote By Mail is the best way to go
Most Americans are honest
I'm gonna guess without looking those are Tom Scott's videos
shareHow did you know??
shareWell i've seen the first one , and youtube had been recommending the second a while back so i knew there were 2
And you'd said
"Electronic vote is the worst possible option"
which put me in mind of that video even before i saw youd linked something
I totally agree with you ( and Tom) , having seen the first one.
You cant argue with Toms logic.
That guy really knows his shit! especially about computers
I thnk postal voting could be made secure though , not sure if it has been made secure
👍
shareYou need voting by mail for the elderly and the immobile, which I fully agree with but for the majority of fit and healthy adults I believe voting should be done in person, on a Sunday and with some kind of ID as proof of who you are. Also voting should be done with a black pen provided.
shareI like to vote in advance, because I could be sick on the election day and not be able to do it then.
So I don't see why I should take any chances and wait until one particular day and risk not having voted at all.
However, you have to show your ID if you're going to vote in advance here in Sweden.
So if you don't have to ID yourself when you vote in advance in the US, that is really weird.
Don't need to bring in ID in the UK, they just ask for your name and postal/zip code, it's far too trusting, Sweden seems to be doing it right.
shareWhy don't you just physically tear or make a hole in the paper to vote? No need for a special pen. And can't be undone / erased.
shareI personally think it's ridiculous that we let each state determine how they will vote in a national election. There should be one set of rules/protocols for everyone - nationwide.
Mail in voting should only be allowed for those who can't physically get to the polls or will not be home on election day and early voting is stupid idea. Make it Sunday,Monday, and Tuesday, if people think extra days are necessary, but it shouldn't drag out weeks before any election.
People should be allowed to vote any way they can that is convenient. Is it some stress test we should make people take time away from work, stand around in crappy weather, endure opposition intimidating us, then wondering if this ballot booth is really rigged up correctly so we haven't wasted all this time? Get mailed a ballot, mail it back. Simple and not going to trigger an avalanche of fraud, except in the mind of rump and his sore losers.
shareI don't get why people would be able to vote when there are still debates pending. There were people Googling if they could change their votes because of the second debate where Biden was called out on a few things and Trump was a little calmer.
Even though many wouldn't watch the debates anyway it just doesn't make sense to me that people would be able to vote before the campaigning is finished. Even if they have long decided who they will vote for.
well , i guess its up to the individual if wether they want to vote now to get it out of the way , or wait.
If you think you might be swayed one way or other - wait . simples.
Anyone who votes early and changes their mind its their own fault.
I think i'd be better to ban the campaigning.
Give each party a webpage of limited size to outline their policies on and leave at that.
Imagine the time , effort , resources and billions of dollars that could then be put to something useful
I admire your persistence but you do know old mate Arty has you on Ignore right? Your opinion is not compatible... DELETE!!
shareThat cure would be worse than the disease.
Campaign is the only way for a party to state (directly, without intermediaries) their position and their views about the current situation.
You eliminate campaigns, what remains is the information provided, filtered and conveniently edited by mainstream media. Good luck with it.
“ . . . except politics.”
shareVoting by mail is a new phenomenon, most states did not have it before Covid. In addition to outright fraud, that's partly why it's so fucked up. States had no experience with how to administer mail in voting. So they're screwing it up. Absentee voting has been around forever, but there was no where near the volume of absentee ballots to count as there are these shotty "mail in ballots.". I'm against early voting and mail in voting. If you give a damn, you can show up in person and prove you are a legal voter.
shareNo. If things are legit effed because of admin reasons, that doesn't favor either side.
And if you imagine there are enough willing people to show up and vote ILLEGALLY to sway the numbers, I think you are drinking the racist kool-aid. Even if a jack-ass like rump actually can capture a certain segment of people, I'm sure it will be reflected in the vote and a mass infiltration of confederates is the sort of thing the wrong wing dreams up just to tell themselves they aren't losing in the public sphere.
rump wins, he wins. rump loses, it's not a conspiracy. He's shown to be the loser he always has been. And by the Popular Vote.
Shut up.
shareHis name is Trump. Even if you don't like him at all, please be mature enough to use his proper name.
shareIt might have something to do with the fact that several states with lower populations than places like Florida, somehow being unable to count all the votes in one day. Other issues might be:
- too much secrecy around people counting votes and refusing to allow cameras into the polling places, or even putting white paper up over the windows so people can't see in (which is illegal, by the way)
- suspicious trucks full of hundreds of thousands of ballots for one candidate that seemingly came out of nowhere, arriving at 4 am in the morning on the 4th
- states revealing twice as many ballots cast than the actual population of the counties they came from
- dead people voting
- news stations declaring a victor too early