There is no logical reason to refuse the vaccine - Politics Discussion

[–] beantown23 (1438) 3 years ago

I'm hoping some combination of rich people pledge millions of dollars to create a fun that pays potential fines Governor DeSantis tries to impose in Florida.

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[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

1. An experimental vaccine rushed through for what may well be a lab engineered bio-weapon.

2. We will force everyone to get vaccinated against a virus that only has a 1% fatality rate.

3. Getting everyone vaccinated is the only priority, nothing else matters.

4. We will turn the world on its head and waste trillions of dollars to fight a virus that only has a 1% fatality rate.

5. In other words it doesn't add up.

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[–] yatzo376 (7717) 3 years ago

Quasimodo indeed

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[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

I know a thing or two about skulduggery and this business has the same sort of stink about it.

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[–] snepts (11123) 3 years ago

Dick Cheney pulled it off with his wars in the Middle East.

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[–] B1cKsurN (17483) 3 years ago

Don't forget endless shots for the rest of your life. Potential prion diseases too.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Johnson is a traditional vaccine. No reason not to take that one.

The unvaccinated are causing variants to develop which is preventing a full economic recovery and containment of the virus.

Covid doesn't only cause death. There are a large percentage of people with long-covid who have not been able to return to work for months.

Unvaccinated covid patients are causing other people to die by taking up ICU beds. Also, elective and necessary medical procedures can't be done including chemo therapy and surgery which is causing their deaths.

Only 1%? 650,000 Americans dead and you don't care. You sound like a death cultist.

The only reason you're against THIS vaccine is because of QAnon conspiracy theory that the GQP had adapted as their own. Your cult hasn't complained about the mandate for children to take multiple vaccines before attending school nor vaccines needed before traveling to certain countries.

Lab engineered bio-weapon? That's another Q-Anon conspiracy theory. It's natural for new viruses to develop like AIDS, swine flu, ebola, covid-19, etc.. Expect another viral mutation in a few years.

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[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

Oh it's the raving loony again.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Obviously, you have no intelligent response to factual information.

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[–] Jinx (3737) 3 years ago

Pity, I would have liked to read your response. You have the ability to stand up for your beliefs so I don't understand what's stopping you.

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[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

Hey if you want to waste your time arguing with the troll Keelai knock yourself out buster but don't expect me to do it for you.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Your unwarranted hostile response is an obvious troll.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

[deleted]

[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

Komrade Keelai is a racist, anti-Semitic, self hating loon. Would you waste your time arguing with a sewer rat? That's what she is.

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[–] Jinx (3737) 3 years ago

All you seem to do is call people names like a child.

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

Just callin' it like it is.

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[–] Jinx (3737) 3 years ago

That’s how people who don’t have a good point have to behave, because if you could stand alone on your statement you wouldn’t need to debase yourself to personal attacks in such an immature way.

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

Sorry padawan. I don't subscribe to, or play by your "rules".

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[–] Jinx (3737) 3 years ago

That's not a rule, that is a fact of human behavior. Hey you actually called me something other than an idiot . . .progress!

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[–] JoWilli2 (855) 3 years ago

liberals here made fun of Trump and called him names and mocked his skin color, thats ok right because he is a Republican?

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[–] snepts (11123) 3 years ago

You should stop and think about arguing with yourself in public, Dr Jekyll.

Seriously. People try to show evidence of what rational people should pay attention to, and this is your response?

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[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

Keelai is a troll at best. This place is crawling with bad faith actors and I prefer not to waste my time with them. If you have a problem with that I couldn't care less.

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

snepts is a vile leftist, too.

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[–] Jinx (3737) 3 years ago

"Vile Leftist" lol what the Hell man?

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

Full of shit, as usual.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

>1. An experimental vaccine rushed through for what may well be a lab engineered bio-weapon.

There's more than 1 vaccine. They've all been approved by relevant authorities. Take your pick.

>2. We will force everyone to get vaccinated against a virus that only has a 1% fatality rate.

USA death rate is 660k since a year and a half ago..? Sept 11 attacks killed nearly 4000 ppl. So 'only 1% death rate' is the equivalent of 2 WTC attacks a week but yeah just brush the figures aside like they're meaningless.

>3. Getting everyone vaccinated is the only priority, nothing else matters.

A country whose leaders prioritise the safety of its citizens above all else? What madness is this?

>4. We will turn the world on its head and waste trillions of dollars to fight a virus that only has a 1% fatality rate.

Damn! So all the world's leaders have gone mad prioritising the safety of their citizens!

>5. In other words it doesn't add up.

You can't even add up the number of fingers you have.

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[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

So you are one of Keelai's sock puppets.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

Even the race-baiting troll Keelai has pwned you

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[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

Typical sock puppet response.

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[–] Jinx (3737) 3 years ago

I would have liked to read your response to this so i can understand your point of view.

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[–] Adam60z (3774) 3 years ago

Actually 1% would mean if everyone on Earth got Covid, 80 million would die. But the average is now 2% if you believe the stats, and 5 million deaths.
Very few believe it's a bioweapon. And it may not have been a lab leak. The latest theory is that Wuhan lab intentionally spread to a bat cave:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/wuhan-scientists-planned-release-skin-145326380.html
But that doesn't mean it's a bioweapon.
https://www.businessinsider.com/chinese-scientists-bat-caves-video-2021-6
Too many side effects from vax being swept under Fauci's and Gate's rug, when everyone knows the cure ivermectin
is being suppressed.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

I'm just never getting it. Cry more

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[–] B1cKsurN (17483) 3 years ago

They actually think they will be rewarded for their compliance, after being lied to over and over.

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[–] moviechatterer (15777) 3 years ago

just out of interest , have you had any other more traditional established vaccines ?

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

You mean vaccines that went through a rigorous and decade or more lengthy process of safety and efficiency checks? Why yes I have

Gonna say I'm still "Anti-Vaxx"? I just had a tetanus shot 2 weeks ago

Know how long those were tested? Know why they used a different version in 1992 than they did from 1948-1991?

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[–] snepts (11123) 3 years ago

No one cares whether you as an individual get vaxxed.
What we do care about is that you go away from a forum where decent people are trying to share accurate information.
And that ain't you.

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

Says one of the least decent people here.

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[–] [deleted] 3 years ago

You call yourself a decent person

😂

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[–] ultravioletx (10237) 3 years ago

Anti-vaxx started with conspiracy nuts in general who want to be correct about something that the majority got wrong.
This version of it is Trumpist politics which has no ideology other than opposing the left.
Since the left says the vaccines work, Trumpists oppose the vaccine.
Since the left says hydroxychloroquine and ivermectin don't work, Trumpists claim they do.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

I can give one rational thing that stops me from getting the vaccine: I had corona and I have natural immunity!!

Btw, how are they used "over a year" when the first vaccine ever in the USA had been around Dec 14 2020??

SMH, you liberals lie as you open your mouth ...

And long term effects might mean 2 years, 3 years, even 10 years. But i guess liberals don't really understand the term "long term" :D

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[–] B1cKsurN (17483) 3 years ago

Yup, I'm never trading in my rock solid immune system for Pfizer subscription model immune system via endless injections.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Which variant? That's like saying you'll never catch a cold again because you had a cold once. There are people who ended up getting covid a second time and dying.

Not everyone who had covid develops a strong immune response especially if your symptoms were mild. There are also other factors which need to be considered.

Delta has a very strong viral load which is why there is an increased spread and children and younger people are ending up hospitalized. You have a false sense of confidence which can end up causing you your life or a visit to a hospital.

"...I guess liberals"
You've made this about politics. it's a medical issue. You should talk to your medical doctor about your covid risk.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

"You've made this about politics." - yeah, because IT IS about politics. Like Biden already pushing a third shot against FDA or CDC advice (or without it).

"Which variant?" the one that is now in 95% of the cases in USA, Delta. Of course I cannot say anything about future variants, i cannot predict the future and neither do you.

"Not everyone who had covid develops a strong immune response especially if your symptoms were mild. There are also other factors which need to be considered." - valid for vaccines as well.

"Delta has a very strong viral load which is why there is an increased spread and children and younger people are ending up hospitalized. You have a false sense of confidence which can end up causing you your life or a visit to a hospital."

Again, is "proven" that specifically against Delta variant natural immunity offers better protection than vaccines.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/94258

You talk about "medical issues" but you have all the bullet points that political figures make. Without the medical data to back them up.

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[–] ultravioletx (10237) 3 years ago

"Natural immunity" is obtained by anyone who gets Covid and recovers. There is no "vaccine immunity." All the vaccine does is help your body defeat Covid easier so that you gain "natural immunity" without getting terribly sick after getting Covid.

Also, vaccination plus Covid recovery gives you more immunity than "natural immunity" without vaccination.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Vaccine immunity is the immunity (or protection) created by the vaccines.

Go back to school.

Yeah, vaccinations after recovering gives a higher immunity but that's not the point (and also presents more risks), the natural immunity is stronger than the vaccines conferred one, so there is no need to mandate a vaccinate for the recovered.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

You've already failed to protect yourself from getting covid once.

You appear to want to catch it a second time.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

nope, that's the idea: I have lower chances than you (assuming you're vaccinated) to get it.

And even if i get it I have lower chances than you (assuming you're vaccinated) to be hospitalized.

Etc, you get the idea :P

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

From your MedPage Today article:

1. "... not peer reviewed".

2. "Because the Delta variant was the most common source of infection during the study period, these results cannot be translated to immunity against other strains, Gazit's group said. Additionally, they recognized that this study may have underestimated asymptomatic cases, and that the findings do not apply to those who received a vaccine other than Pfizer's."

3. "Alessandro Sette, DSc, of the La Jolla Institute for Immunology in California, who was not involved in this study, emphasized that these findings "should not be interpreted as saying, 'if you have already been infected, don't get vaccinated.'"

"People who have been infected still get a benefit -- for themselves and for society -- by getting vaccinated, and one shot of vaccine is sufficient to achieve that," Sette said. (CDC recommends a two-dose series for the mRNA vaccines or the single-shot Johnson & Johnson vaccine regardless of prior infection status.)"

Not proven at all.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Proven but as usually the whole thing is political and profit driven.

No surprises here.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Your own link shows that it's NOT proven.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

not peer reviewed ... yet.

But the numbers speak for themselves ...

Anyway, you get the idea.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

You're willfully misinterpreting the information and studies, therefore you should stop pretending you're following science.

Your fear of the vaccine isn't rational. If you get covid again, don't run to the hospital.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

I'm presenting the data, there is no misinterpreting the information or the studies. The fact that it's not peer reviewed YET doesn't make me presenting the data a misinterpretation.

Are you that desperate to spread your bullshit?

I can see that on your side, spreading lies, deception and fear. And ignoring anything that doesn't correlate with their ideas.

I have no fear of the vaccine, I was waiting for my turn to take it before getting the corona.

But although I don't fear it there are things that are NOT clear when it comes to the vaccine. Like long term effects. And there are reports about problems - even if the risk is low still, why would you force me to take the vaccine when without it I'm better protected and less likely to spread the virus than you?????

https://www.facebook.com/wxyzdetroit/posts/10158207967261135

Read the comments.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Johnson is a traditional vaccine.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Yeah, so?

FDA put a pause on J&J vaccine for safety concerns.

Another one: https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/fda-tells-johnson-johnson-toss-60-million-covid-vaccine-doses-n1270521

Another: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/12/us/politics/fda-warning-johnson-johnson-vaccine-nerve-syndrome.html

J&J vaccine offers less protection than the Pfizer one which offer less protection than the natural immunity.

so WHY would I take a vaccine now that I have nat immunity, specially J&J?

And stop talking about "being rational" when you're nothing close to that.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Old medical news is useless. Johnson is fine.

That one would be good for you since it's traditional.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

You don't really read or understand.

Are you a doctor to tell me what's good for me?

Again, you are not rational, NOT at all ...

You have a phobia, that's clear ...

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

You're not rational. Your links are NOT peer reviewed. You're also cherry-picking the studies which clearly state NOT to use them as an excuse to avoid getting the vaccine.

You sound like you're too scared to talk to your medical doctor about the vaccine. That would be the prudent thing to do!

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Hahaha, ok, let's throw the gravity law out the window, it wasn't peer reviewed at it's time so it's void.

The articles clearly state to not use them as an excuse for infection parties. And at most state that an extra shot might give better immunity. With maybe 1% better.

Not worth it for 1% :P

And again: since you are no doctor wtf is your problem to tell me how to live my life? STFU.

Are you afraid that because I'm unvaccinated but with higher protection than you, you're going to get the 'rona? If you're going to get it's because your protection is shit, not because of me.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

I never said that I wasn't a doctor. I did suggest to talk to your own medical doctor.

You're not linking to anything peer-reviewed. I'm only pointing that out along with your cherry-picking.

If you get covid, just take your horse dewormer and leave the ICU bed for someone who deserves it.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

It doesn't have to be peer reviewed to see the numbers and understand the implications.

Most likely since it goes against the political trend it will never ne peer reviewed.

That's your only excuse "it's not peer reviewed".

Btw, you haven't presented any peer reviewed data either. You actually didn't present any data. Or the OP.

So I can consider everything you said as being ... bullshit.

Have a great day.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Live in your world of delusion. Just don't call it science.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

You're again just full of bullshit and no data, peer reviewed or not. Your bullshit is far from science.

Look, feel free to STFU until you provide, as per your criteria, a peer reviewed study that would state:
1. J&J vaccine has zero side effects
2. Previously infected people have their immunity boosted by a LARGE margin after taking the J&J vaccine.

Until you comply with YOUR criteria I would appreciate if you stop replying.

Thanks.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

I don't care if you end up on a respirator and/or die.

Just don't call your bias nonsense science.

YOU can stop replying to me.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Again nothing but fear :D

Vaccinated has ended on respirators and died as well.

https://whdh.com/news/mass-dph-reports-3919-new-breakthrough-covid-19-cases-32-more-deaths-among-vaccinated-residents/

Just don't call your baseless fear science.

I told you, until you actually present some data, peer reviewed, you're void. Just as your opinion.

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

Your entire world view isn't rational. Bugger off.

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[–] moviechatterer (15777) 3 years ago

I can give one rational thing that stops me from getting the vaccine: I had corona and I have natural immunity!!
only for a limited time.
same as the vaccine

I'd rather take the vaccine now and again than get corona now and again

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

That's your choice.

My choice is to not take the vaccine because I'm protected.

And apparently, according to some studies, natural immunity is a lasting one.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1

"This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant."

https://www.rockefeller.edu/news/30919-natural-infection-versus-vaccination-differences-in-covid-antibody-responses-emerge/

"Vaccination produces greater amounts of circulating antibodies than natural infection. But a new study suggests that not all memory B cells are created equal. While vaccination gives rise to memory B cells that evolve over a few weeks, natural infection births memory B cells that continue to evolve over several months, producing highly potent antibodies adept at eliminating even viral variants."

"It is possible that the body responds differently to viruses that enter through the respiratory tract than those that are injected into our upper arms. Or perhaps an intact virus goads the immune system in a way that the lone spike protein represented by the vaccines simply cannot. Then again, maybe it’s that the virus persists in the naturally infected for weeks, giving the body more time to mount a robust response. The vaccine, on the other hand, is flushed out of the body mere days after triggering the desired immune response."

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/lasting-immunity-found-after-recovery-covid-19

“Several months ago, our studies showed that natural infection induced a strong response, and this study now shows that the responses last,”

"Science, bitch!!!"

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[–] moviechatterer (15777) 3 years ago

I'm prepared to concede that getting the virus may give you a longer immunity period than a vaccine,
but on the other hand its a lot more of a pain in the ass to get covid .

if , say, easy to use figures : a vaccine lasts one year and "getting it" last two years
then over ten years i'd rather have 10 jabs than 5 bouts of covid.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

no one says "don't get the vaccine, get corona instead".

but if you happened to have corona once then is no need to vaccinate. that's easy.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

Good luck in convincing all the hospital workers in the world with that plan.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

A lot of them are convinced already ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Upjjm7QUjA

https://youtu.be/oKGH-hfTv9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7PJT9D7twU

Even Fauci admits that natural immunity offers protection.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GM3j-3CbtKk

But as we know, there is no discussion in the USA, beside the social media, about natural immunity ... because nonvaccinated 40 millions people means billions of dollars in revenue lost.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

Point taken. The media have been sensationalising covid statistics and overburdoned hospitals but the costs of vaccination is nothing compared to medical treatment.
And Big Pharma wanting to cash in on all of this ? Too damn right.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

The anti-vaxxers in the hospitals with covid are costing taxpayers billions of dollars.

"Unvaccinated adults hospitalized with Covid-19 cost the American health system at least $2.3 billion in June and July this year, according to research by the Kaiser Family Foundation, most of which will be borne by society as a whole and not by the unvaccinated patients.

This means those refusing Covid-19 vaccines inflict a greater burden on the taxpayer and risk higher insurance premiums for businesses and workers, the Kaiser report said, as well as imposing indirect costs like risking the health and safety of others and prolonging the country’s economic recovery."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/08/23/unvaccinated-covid-patients-cost-us-health-system-billions---and-theyre-not-the-ones-paying-for-it/

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[–] sokar (2098) 3 years ago

So vaccinated people who also have covid in hospital inflict the same cost. Whats your point.

I thought you paid for your healthcare in America so again whats your point.

If you pay for it what does it matter if you are in hospital vaccinated or not vaccinated.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

They don't inflict the same cost since anti-vaxxers are 95% of the covid patients.

It's good that Biden has limited antibody allotment from Florida and six other backward states which were hogging most of the supply because of their pro-covid death policies. Now, they can rely on their horse dewormer to save their death cultists. Good luck with that!

"Alabama, Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia and Louisiana — all states where the delta variant of the virus has been surging in recent months — have been using 70 percent of the monoclonal antibody supply in recent weeks. Other than Florida, those states have lower than average vaccination rates."

I have no problem with anti-vaxxers paying a higher monthly health premium like Delta Airlines is doing since they're spending more.

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[–] sokar (2098) 3 years ago

They don't inflict the same cost since anti-vaxxers are 95% of the covid patients

Do you get charged more if you cintract covid when vaccinated? That would be no. So that comment is worthless.

I have no problem with anti-vaxxers paying a higher monthly health premium

What happens if someone is vaccinated but not fo covid, can't really be called anti vax can they.

your statement is cruel and serves no purpose but to segregate people based on vaccinations which up until recently you wouldn't have literlaly cared less.

If someone pays for there medical care then it does not matter if they are vaccinated or not as the cost is identical.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Anti-vaxxer:

"Wah!!! I can't breathe!!!! Call 911!!!! Wah!!!!!!!!!"

"Doctor, give me horse dewormer! I know that works!!"

"And in case it doesn't, give me malaria medicine, monoclonal antibodies, the steroid prednisone, a Z-Pac, a vitamin drip, too!!!!!!!! WAH!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't want to die!!!!!! I can't breathe!!!!"

"Give me every drug that hasn't proven to work."

Vaccine? The one drug proven to work. Not that one! Wah!!!!!"

Moron!

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[–] kspkap (13568) 3 years ago

Are you more knowledgeable than Dr. Robert Malone, the developer of the mRNA vaccine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwPKnOhJRYg

Are you more knowledgeable than the doctors giving testimony at the following FDA hearing?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFph7-6t34M

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

You got back from the DC rally to celebrate beating up cops on Jan 6th early.

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[–] kspkap (13568) 3 years ago

Huh? Oh! 🙅🏼‍♀️Darn it! I couldn’t make the trip. I broke 2 toes on my right foot so I had to stay home. I also had to cancel my pedicure which really upset me.

BTW, you approved of BLM & Antifa beating up cops last year. Forgot that didn’t ya?

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

You approved of cops beating and killing black people last year. Forgot that didn't ya?

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[–] kspkap (13568) 3 years ago

Yep! If deserved!

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

No surprise coming from you, Karen.

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[–] kspkap (13568) 3 years ago

Now ya know. 🙇🏼‍♀️ Hmm? Karen? Better than a lying, murder in the heart “Rhoda”. A wanton baby killer! That’s you Rhoda! Either by abortion or forcing masks on babies in order to suffocate them. I can hear you now saying “Well, at least the baby didn’t die from Covey! It may have suffocated, but it died Covey free! That’s the important thing and the parents should be happy.”

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

You have an odd preoccupation with a young child, pervert.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

>So vaccinated people who also have covid in hospital inflict the same cost. Whats your point.
Unvaccinated patients vastly outnumber the vaccinated patients.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

The number is not that important, they still incur costs.

What about some data (cannot find it now) that says that the risk of young men to have myocarditis after the vaccine is far greater than being hospitalized as a result of the virus???

And btw, from another study: " We do not know the specific mechanisms by which immunologic responses to mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccines could lead to myocarditis."

And this IS the real problem: they don't know ... because it wasn't tested enough. And there are a lot of other unknowns about the vaccines.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/94530

"The report by Tracy Høeg, MD, PhD, of the University of California Davis, and colleagues found that rates of "cardiac adverse events" after the second dose were higher than previous CDC estimates, at 162 per million among boys ages 12 to 15 and 94 per million among boys ages 16 to 17. (Rates were much lower for girls, at about 13 per million for each age group.)

The authors also concluded that the risk of hospitalization for cardiac adverse events following vaccination is higher than the risk of being hospitalized with COVID for healthy boys in both age groups."

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

>The number is not that important, they still incur costs.

Of course numbers don't matter to anti-vaxxers.

>The authors also concluded that the risk of hospitalization for cardiac adverse events following vaccination is higher than the risk of being hospitalized with COVID for healthy boys in both age groups."

Woo! Congrats on finding a narrow group of people at risk from the vaccine. Now lets apply the same argument against vaccines to everyone else. Which vaccine is this? Astra-Zenca? Pfizer?

Meanwhile your own source goes on to say:

The findings led to an uproar by physicians on social media, who pointed out that they're unreliable due to the nature of VAERS and its known limitations -- and that the authors are running the risk of serious misinterpretation of their findings by groups with bad intentions.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

A narrow group of people at risk from the vaccine.

And the problem is: no one takes these things into account.

Is that group at risk? Doesn't matter, they need to vaccinate!!
Is natural immunity better than the one conferred by the vaccines? Doesn't matter, they need to vaccinate.

So here is the problem: that any kind of nuance is hidden, shunned, removed, etc.

And that paints a not so nice view.

“Tyranny is the deliberate removal of nuance”

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[–] Bloodshot77 (13839) 3 years ago

had corona and I have natural immunity!!

That's something to be proud of....

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

I don’t know why someone would be proud of having corona, or taking a vaccine.

It’s just a fact. Stating a fact is in no way a way of saying “I’m proud”.

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[–] B1cKsurN (17483) 3 years ago

The vax only protects you. If you got it, you're good, stfu and leave others alone to make their own informed decision based on informed consent by their doctors.

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

^^^THIS^^^

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[–] Bloodshot77 (13839) 3 years ago

You mean YouTube videos.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

If that’s all you understand after all the studies posted then ok, stay at that level ..

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 3 years ago

I'm vaccinated, but there are plenty of logical reasons for some to refuse the vaccine. Young, healthy people who are at extremely low risk for serious illness or death could logically decide the risks of known side effects and unknown long-term side effects offset the potential benefits. People who have already recovered from Covid and already have immunity as a result also have logical reasons to decline the vaccine.

It should not be forced on anyone and I don't think it should be given to healthy children at all until there is a longer track record.

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[–] Quasimodo (16388) 3 years ago

They are talking about vaccinating babies now. These people are reckless fanatics and lunatics at best.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Some are idiots, some are just in for the money ...

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Those young, healthy people are passing it on to everyone else and allowing it to mutate. They're also ending up in the hospital.

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[–] sokar (2098) 3 years ago

Virus doesn't mutate if it can be passed on easily, it has no need to.

A virus mutates when it is dying and so mutates to be less virulent to last longer outside the body.

For example the flu mutates year on year due to vaccinations and natural immunity. Without mutating it would die out, same with covid and basically any other virus.

Your statement is incorrect.

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Delta is a mutant which is more virulent. Your statement is delusional.

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[–] sokar (2098) 3 years ago

Delta is a mutant which is more virulent

And water is wet, whats your point.

Your statement is delusional.

How can facts be delusional?

https://www.quantamagazine.org/how-vaccines-can-drive-pathogens-to-evolve-20180510/

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Anti-vaxxer:

"Boohoo ! I can't breathe! Call 911! Call 911!!!"

"Doctor, is it too late to get the vaccine? Boohoo! I don't want to be on a ventilator! Boohoo!"

LOL! Dummies!

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Can you read? I suspect not ...

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[–] Enigmaticocean77 (2446) 3 years ago

You vax morons are scary. If someone doesn't want it they have a GOD given right not to get it. Are you aware that more people die from the flu! Why is there no flu shot mandate? Why is the government offering money to get a vax for something that is less dangerous than the flu? And moreover why are you idiots advocating this?!

How about I advocate to you that moronic fans of Ariana Grande shouldn't voice their opinion on grown up matters!

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[–] Jinx (3737) 3 years ago

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/apr/27/facebook-posts/no-covid-19-hasnt-killed-fewer-people-flu/

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/coronavirus-deadlier-than-many-believed-infection-fatality-rate-cvd

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[–] Enigmaticocean77 (2446) 3 years ago

There was no difference in the death rate since covid hit than in the years before

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/typical-year-covid-deaths/

Also flu deaths by year

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124915/flu-deaths-number-us/

covid deaths in 2020

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8030985/

Going back to 2010 with the exception of 3 years, the flu kills more people per year than covid does. We were never locked down over the flu, and at it's peak it killed 61,000 Americans in one year.

Also, facebook (run by Zuckerberg a known globalist/ depopulationist) and National Geographic (AKA Disney also known globalists and in favor of depopulation) are not reliable sources.

Despite arguing with you, I do like talking to you on other boards :) But as Sean Connery said

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzXkbJwrN38

:P

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[–] Jinx (3737) 3 years ago

Your first link says that your statement is false . . .

Covid deaths are not classified as the flu so, yes, there were less flu deaths because people have been avoiding each other. What is the point you are trying to make here?

The ncbi link is fantastic, I don't know what you think it shows that supports your anti vaccine stand.

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[–] moviechatterer (15777) 3 years ago

You vax morons are scary. If someone doesn't want it they have a GOD given right not to get it.

True

do you also have the god given right to visit crowded public places and spread it about?
I'm unclear on that one

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Yeah. Plus read what you said.

Hint "crowded spaces"??? If there are crowded spaces then people in those spaces have accepted the risk.

You can call it Darwin Effect but it is a personal choice

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[–] Keelai (34968) 3 years ago

Crowded spaces are public transportation, stores, sidewalks, schools, workplaces, elevators.

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[–] moviechatterer (15777) 3 years ago

I dont understand any of those three sentences
Yeah. Plus read what you said.
you DO think that people with dangerous infectiouos diseases should be allowed to freely move arounf in public and spread it about?

Hint "crowded spaces"??? If there are crowded spaces then people in those spaces have accepted the risk.
They havent accepted the risk , they are going on the reasonable assumption that the people in those areas have been responsible enough to vaccinate.

You can call it Darwin Effect but it is a personal choice
to go and mix with the infected in the public spaces?

I guess these points depend on wether you think the disease has won and the helthy should barricade themslves inside like on "The walking dead"
I'm still of the opinion its the unvaccinated that should do that.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Massive fallacy, unvaccinated are not "people with dangerous infections". Maybe potentially but vaccinated are potentially "people with dangerous infections" as well.

Do you want me to paste a LOT of studies that shows that vaccines don't really stop the spread???

Again, is NOT the infected. Unvaccinated, or even worse, people with natural immunity which have better immunity than vaccines conferred one but are treated the same as unvaccinated or as you fallacious say "infected".

And again you make the FALSE equivalence "unvaccinated = unhealthy". Your logic fails you massively.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

>Yeah. Plus read what you said.
Then please explain quarantine centres.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Not sure what you mean by that.

Quarantine places are for people that had been already exposed to a potential dangerous virus/bacteria. The purpose is to NOT allow the agent to spread from people that already had contact. They are NOT dedicated crowded places for people to infect ... and no, again, you cannot make the equivalence "unvaccinated = infected".

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

You just said they have a god-given right to visit crowded public places and spread it about.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Huh? What?

You have cognitive problems if that's what you understand.

Plus, spread WHAT about???

Do I have the right to go crowded spaces? Sure, just like ANYONE else in that crowded space. Doesn't mean that I have covid. Doesn't mean that a vaccinated one cannot spread it about as well, if he has it, either.

But if in your opinion vaccinated means "cannot get it or transmit" then what's your problem?? Vaccinated according to you cannot get it or pass it, otherwise they shouldn't be in those crowded spaces in the first place. Only that that's basically not true.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/delta-infection-unvaccinated-and-vaccinated-people-have-similar-levels-of-virus

"The new study found that virus levels in a fully vaccinated person who has contracted the Delta variant are similar to those of a person who has not had a vaccination."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2021/08/06/fully-vaccinated-may-transmit-delta-just-as-easily-and-new-variant-shows-signs-of-vaccine-evasion-early-uk-research-suggests/?sh=1bafc6571ac5

You cannot put the equal sign "unvaccinated" = "infected". Plus, i'm unvaccinated but I had covid. according to some studies I have better protection than you so I have more "rights" to be in crowded spaces than you, but you still insist that no, I have to vaccinate. WHY?

I have few friends, fully vaccinated, they got covid. Do you know what they were told?? To stay home and quarantine and not go to "crowded spaces".

So the main thing about "crowded spaces" shouldn't be "oh, you're vaccinated, you have the right" but "oh, you don't have it, you have the right". Obviously being vaccinated is NOT a guarantee that you don't have it or that you cannot transmit it.

If you think that being vaccinated while having covid gives you the "right" to infect others ... you're wrong.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

>Huh? What?

>You have cognitive problems if that's what you understand.

Let's recap :

moviechatterer:
"do you also have the god given right to visit crowded public places and spread it about?"

Your reply:
"Yeah. "

>Plus, spread WHAT about???

You do realise this thread is about the Corona virus, don't you?

>Do I have the right to go crowded spaces? Sure, just like ANYONE else in that crowded space. Doesn't mean that I have covid. Doesn't mean that a vaccinated one cannot spread it about as well, if he has it, either.

You already stated in this thread you have natural immunity. That's no reason for you to be against vaccinations, it's sending out the wrong message when you brag about going to crowded places knowing you won't catch the virus and somehow thinking that everyone else should behave the same. Worse, how do you know you're not a carrier yourself?

>You cannot put the equal sign "unvaccinated" = "infected". Plus, i'm unvaccinated but I had covid. according to some studies I have better protection than you so I have more "rights" to be in crowded spaces than you, but you still insist that no, I have to vaccinate. WHY?

Alright I'm with you on this one. Like closing the stable door after the horse has bolted. Unfortunately neither you nor I make the rules.

>I have few friends, fully vaccinated, they got covid. Do you know what they were told?? To stay home and quarantine and not go to "crowded spaces".

Now that sucks. But what I won't do is use that as an argument against vaccinations.

>If you think that being vaccinated while having covid gives you the "right" to infect others ... you're wrong.

Never said that.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

"You do realise this thread is about the Corona virus, don't you?"

you CANNOT spread what you DON'T HAVE. As I said, again and again, you cannot assume that every unvaccinated individual has corona. It's dumb. Plus you cannot assume that it's impossible for vaccinated people to get corona.

And it's funny because you say in the next paragraph "Alright I'm with you on this one"

"You already stated in this thread you have natural immunity. That's no reason for you to be against vaccinations" and I'm not against vaccinations, I'm against forced, un reasonable vaccinations. Like insisting on vaccinated the people with natural immunity.

"Now that sucks. But what I won't do is use that as an argument against vaccinations." and I'm not, see the point I'm making above. And I'm showing, plus I can provide countless studies, that vaccination DOESN'T stop infection.

"Never said that." - you implied it, when you said that being unvaccinated should give you no right to go to crowded places while being vaccinated should allow you that, REGARDLES of the infection status ...

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

>you CANNOT spread what you DON'T HAVE.
It has about a 5 day incubation period. How can you possibly point at someone in the street and say for certain they have covid or not?

>"Never said that." - you implied it, when you said that being unvaccinated should give you no right to go to crowded places while being vaccinated should allow you that, REGARDLES of the infection status ...

Geeze, no let up from you. I haven't caught covid. I had both vaccinations. I still wear a mask in public places because I don't want to spread the wrong impression let alone the virus to those around me. Your only answer to all of this is '"I've had the virus so f- everyone else and their medical costs when they're hospitalised."

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

"It has about a 5 day incubation period. How can you possibly point at someone in the street and say for certain they have covid or not?"

That's valid for those that are vaccinated as well ffs.

"Geeze, no let up from you. I haven't caught covid. I had both vaccinations. I still wear a mask in public places because I don't want to spread the wrong impression let alone the virus to those around me. "

So you didn't spread it (or get it) because you're wearing a mask, thanks for agreeing that the vaccine is not efficient. Finally.

This wasn't about wearing masks or not, but about the fact that you cannot put the equal sign between unvaccinated and infected, as you so desperately try to imply.

Btw, few of my vaccinated friends just had covid. I didn't and I'm not vaccinated.

Do you see me putting the equal sign between vaccinated and infected???

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

>That's valid for those that are vaccinated as well ffs.

Yes very good. And since it's impossible for everyone to know who is and who isn't vaccinated, that's why masks are worn.

>So you didn't spread it (or get it) because you're wearing a mask, thanks for agreeing that the vaccine is not efficient. Finally.

Feel free to point out where I said the vaccine is not efficient.

>This wasn't about wearing masks or not, but about the fact that you cannot put the equal sign between unvaccinated and infected, as you so desperately try to imply.

It's all about everyone doing their part to control the spread.

>Do you see me putting the equal sign between vaccinated and infected???

No. I see you putting an equal sign between recovered and apathy towards everyone else.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

Btw:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iY98nuD3Bco

while everyone is focused on forced vaccinations (money, cough cough) no one gives a shit about the underlying conditions ...

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/94626

how vaccinated don't spread the virus ... /s

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[–] Enigmaticocean77 (2446) 3 years ago

I wear a mask, and have antibodies- I CAN'T spread it to anyone! Also, it has a 99.9% survival rate. The only people who die from it are people who already have preexisting condition (Those people should not be in crowded places to begin with). This "pandemic" has a higher survival rate than the flu, but for some reason our government locked us down, destroyed our economy, destroyed businesses, caused chaos, caused mass depression, caused mass suicides, allowed cities to burn, allowed riots, caused divorces which in turn damaged young children, isolated children causing childhood depression. Do you want me to go on because if you do I will!

Now did the scum that you worship (the "elected" "elite"officials) have the God given right to do all that?
I'm unclear on that. So, please in your omnipotence explain that to me. I am awaiting your reply where you explain why EVERY SINGLE THING THAT I LISTED WAS OKAY.

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[–] chilone (17913) 3 years ago

Do you have the God given right to visit crowded public places and spread the flu, common cold, etc., about? Are you for banning anyone with any myriad of diseases/illnesses from being allowed in public? Do you leave the house when you have a cold? Do you wear a mask if you do?

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[–] moviechatterer (15777) 3 years ago

You are correct the weight of that argument is dependant on level of contagiousness AND how dangerous it is.

I feel covid falls on the side of "too contagious & dangerous to be passing around like it aint no thang"

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

>If someone doesn't want it they have a GOD given right not to get it

I don't want covid. Do I have the GOD given right not to get it?

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[–] Enigmaticocean77 (2446) 3 years ago

Yes. You have the God given right to get the vaccine and then you (supposedly) won't get covid. I hope I answered your question, but you vaccine lovers always have something to complain about. You're all like high school students in that regard- you love using peer pressure, name calling, bullying, ostracism, and try (in vain) to make someone who doesn't want to do as you want them feel like they did something wrong. If you want the Vaccine- get it. If you don't than don't. Why is this such a big deal to you? If you believe that getting vaxed gives you immunity then WHY IN THE BLUE HELL DO YOU CARE IF OTHER PEOPLE DON'T GET IT, YOU'RE IMMUNE RIGHT?! If the vaccine works then only non-vaccinated people will get sick right?! Then it is their choice to get sick, and you won't because you have been vaccinated. Now, why don't you mind your own business, and let people control their own lives, and their own bodies?!

I've said my peace on this issue.

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[–] ProgsReturn (2096) 3 years ago

>Yes. You have the God given right to get the vaccine and then you (supposedly) won't get covid.

That totally fails to answer my question. That vaccines exist give me a choice to get vaccinated or not. For those unvaccinated for any reason, what choice have they got?

> WHY IN THE BLUE HELL DO YOU CARE IF OTHER PEOPLE DON'T GET IT, YOU'RE IMMUNE RIGHT?!

Because unlike you, I do care about other people.

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[–] asom (6864) 3 years ago

They still have the choice to take, or not, the vaccine. Just like you. But they, for whatever reason, have made a different choice ..

If you would care about other people you would accept their choices. Have you ever heard of that crazy concept "consent"?

Do you stop obese people in the street and send them to the gym??? Do you tell them to eat less?

Are you aware that obesity kills more people than covid? Are you aware that 80% of hospitalizations and deaths with covid have overweight and obesity as risk factors or comorbidities???

So I ask again: if you care about other people are you forcing them to go to the gym or eat less?

How about tobacco? Again it kills more people than corona. Are you running around pulling vapes and cigarettes out of people mouths and do you force them to never smoke again???

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