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sunezno's Replies
When he made him lick the spoon, that was a kind of dominance display, but also probably a control/humiliation thing since he then raped him with the spoon that Robson had just lubed up with his spit.
I haven't looked up the actor yet, but the model thing makes a lot of sense; he's like a beautiful sculpture.
And I guess that's the intriguing part to me-- for those cis-het male friendships that are strictly platonic and never get sexual, I guess I wonder where the threshold is, ya know? Like how physically close or flirtatious is "normal" in a friendship like that? Like I said, I know everyone's different, it just surprises me sometimes when little things pop up that make me raise an eyebrow.
100% platonic friendships are awkward for me, though. I'd prefer we bang at least once to solidify the friendship and make things less weird haha
Well, I'm "asexual" in that I don't necessarily feel sexual attraction to people, but I do like sex. It's more that I see sex as something fun to do, and people are a means to that end, if that makes sense. Sex is also a nice icebreaker, so sometimes it's helpful to get the bang in before getting to know the person and realizing that they're boring or annoying or what have you. I want the act of sex, not necessarily any other kind of connection with the person whose parts I'm playing with, ya know?
I mean, I <i>can</i> have more of a connection with the person, but generally I don't care for or want that if all I'm after is the act.
But in regards to Jon Voight's dreaminess, while I do think he was good-lookin' back then, he just seems to have a very dreamy, longing gaze in his eyes when he looks at Burt's character in the movie, at least in some scenes. Maybe it's simply admiration, not necessarily love, or maybe it's simply the way his face is physically put together lol
Another thing that I wonder about are the things that are more subtle than joking flirting, but things like even standing or sitting closer than I'd expect another guy to be comfortable with. Or maybe some kind of physical touch that wasn't really even necessary but was done anyway (something innocuous like a hand on the other guy's shoulder as he moves past him or something).
Of course these are all things that I overthink anyway, because that's my brain. Trying to understand "normal" people gets exhausting lol
Anyway, I've been on testosterone for five years and pass as cis when clothed. Still planning on getting top surgery someday to get rid of the little bit that's left there, but no plans for bottom stuff at this point. Although I have heard that instead of swapping these parts for those, they can just add the other parts to my current parts, and that's what I'd want. I just want all of the genitals.
Well, I guess there are other factors at play for me; being autistic and asexual probably doesn't help as far as how I interpret interactions.
But I don't really know any other trans men in person. And I've had cis-het male friends, some that knew how I was born and others that assumed I was also cis, but I guess it's those times where the latter would say or do something in jest that seemed oddly more than platonic-- slightly flirtatious at the least, outright sexual at the most. But I could never tell if those things were <i>only</i> in jest or if they were actually serious about it.
So it would raise that question of, "Is this how 'normal' cis-het male friendships carry on?" Like, do BFFs do a silly-sexual wink at each other in the store, for example? Or just how graphic do their talks about sex or fantasies go, ya know?
I mean, I'm sure it depends on the person/people, but I've just never really understood the exact boundaries of a completely platonic friendship in that regard. I feel like I'm always so concerned with not wanting to come across as hitting on someone even if I'm merely joking, so it's surprising to me when I see straight guys acting even slightly sexual with another straight guy.
Wow, that's some good info, thank you! I was wondering about that while watching, because I thought, "Damn, that looks incredibly real for such an old movie!"
I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that. And I will say that as a trans man, I can't really speak to how completely platonic cis male friendships work (I've been surprised that some things are "normal" that seem to me to be romantic or sexual in some way). But I digress.
I'll have to watch that fishing scene again, but I definitely noticed it in the camping scene that night where Ed was drunk and definitely seemed to be looking at Lewis somewhat longingly. Even in the truck at the beginning I thought Ed's looks at Lewis seemed a little romantic. But who knows, maybe that's just a byproduct of Jon Voight's dreaminess back then lol
Thank you for this <3
There's a bit of foreshadowing there, I think. When he gets to the top of the cliff, he's lying next to his bow, and we see that his quiver doesn't have a covering on it like Lewis's does, so his sharp arrows are sitting there a few inches away from his face. To me, that said right there that he was going to end up being hurt by that situation somehow.
We don't see him tell them in the movie, but we do see Ed and Bobby decide that Ed will be the one to tell Drew's family. Bobby asks if Ed wants him to tell them, but Ed says that he should be the one to do it (Bobby mentions earlier that he didn't really know Drew at all).
The sad part is that today <i>one gallon</i> of gas costs more than it took to fill up his truck :( lol
(And holy shit, that truck!! I want it so bad!!)
Also, toward the beginning of the movie, he mentions that he's a salesman (cars maybe? I forget), so the bad teeth are extra odd for his character. I don't think that I noticed them until later in the movie when they're on the rocks. But then I couldn't look away.
Okay, that's where I was totally confused, because that's what I thought, too. To me, it looked like Drew was in a state of shock or something, so distraught by the coverup of the justifiable homicide that he essentially just decided to give up and throw himself into the river.
It looked like a clear-cut suicide to me, especially since he just ignored Ed's insistence that he put on his life jacket. He just looked emotionally numb and gone, then just took an out.
So then when they finally get to the rocks and Lewis is adamant that Drew was shot (when I didn't hear or see a gunshot at all), it seemed like Lewis was just trying to say, "This is what happened in case anyone asks." And then it seemed like Bobby was unsure but just went along with that story, too.
So then I was even more confused when Ed was up the hill and there actually <i>was</i> the other bad guy up there with a gun, and he seemed to be looking or them.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that assumed Drew killed himself. That's definitely how it appeared to me.
I just watched the movie for the first time last night (super late, I know), but I hope I find the book soon. That's cool that the author had a spot in the movie. I love when that happens!
Have you read/watched <i>Mystic River</i>? I don't think I've finished the book, but that one was almost word-for-word the same. I was impressed.
Years late, I know, but I was kind of wondering the same thing, as far as how people living out there are looked at.
I haven't read the book (though I'd like to), so I don't know if the people in it are actually inbred or if everyone's just assuming they are, but that in itself is a hurtful assumption. I mean, I guess maybe it's just implied by how they look, but that's still kind of fucked up. For example, the girl in the house at the beginning-- I'm not sure what that condition is called, but I've known people who have it, and they weren't inbred.
Anyway, another thing that I just thought about, related to the rape stuff, is that at the very beginning in the voiceovers when they're talking about the dam that's to be built, someone (maybe Lewis?) says something like, "We're gonna rape it" (referring to the land/river)-- like the cityfolk are going to come in and rape the natural habitat there. But in a twist, the cityfolk (on a smaller scale, of course) are literally raped by the back-country people.
I just want to pop in here and mention that it's not like they track down the rapist and tie him up and rip out his fingernails or something like that. That would be more gratuitous violence like you're talking about. (Think super rape-y revenge flicks like <i>I Spit on Your Grave</i>.)
In the movie, Lewis and Drew bank the canoe by the other one and then see Ed(?) on his knees with a gun to his head and two strangers talking about raping him. Lewis then shoots one of the bad guys (happens to be the one who raped Bobby) in the back with an arrow, and the other bad guy takes off running.
They don't just leave the guy's body there and hop back in their canoes (as I figured they'd do), but instead they have a huge thing about justifiable homicide, "jury of inbreds", etc., trying to decide what they should do with/about the body/homicide.
To me, that in itself made it more realistic than I was anticipating.
I mean, yes, assuming you never get raped in the woods by some strangers, and assuming you never have to kill someone who's raping someone in the woods, I guess you could claim it's unrealistic in that sense. But it was a hell of a lot more real than most of the garbage out there to which you're referring.
And you're right, a ton of movies got really bad with glorifying violence for violence's sake, but if they did that <i>after</i> this movie (<i>because</i> of it or not), then I wouldn't say that this movie is the problem or cause; it doesn't change that this movie is great for what it is.
If other people made shitty movies because of this one, that sucks. But this is still a great movie.
Hell, there were more white-water rapid scenes in this movie than violence, and <i>those</i> scenes were the movie's biggest standouts to me while watching it. <i>That</i> was some realistic shit there, not all CGId like these days.
Anyway, I hope you change your mind and consider watching it someday. It's so much more than a rape scene in the woods.
I think the only scene I'd watched before was the banjo one at the beginning, but I just watched the movie last night for the first time, and I'm so glad that I did. It was <i>so much</i> different than I'd anticipated, but in a good way. I feel like I never knew what it was actually about because everything I'd heard was so pinpointed on that one scene and banjos.
Just watched it last night, and from what I gathered, he landed on his other arrows when he fell, and one somehow went completely through his side... Not that that makes a whole lot more sense, but ya know, a little bit.
I noticed that there was a bit of foreshadowing just before when he was on the rock (maybe when he'd just climbed up the night before?) and we saw that the quiver (?) didn't have a cover on it like Burt Reynolds' did. My first thought was, "Dude, get those sharp arrows away from your face!" lol
I was confused, however, by the bad guy's partial dentures... When we first saw him, he's missing teeth, but the ones he has are surprisingly white. Then when Jon Voight is checking the guy's mouth, all of the teeth look rotten, even the partial denture (which, of course, is weird in and of itself).
And if the guy wasn't wearing it the day before, why would he run home after his friend was killed, put in his teeth, and <i>then</i> go out to find the guys?
So just to clarify, he did get the right guy, right?
I think it was a nod at the <i>Monk</i> theme song change. (Maybe people had taken issue with it at the time?) At the end of that episode she says something about it, that they should've kept the original theme for her favorite show, and as the scene closes out, they play the original <i>Monk</i> theme.
I was glad that they didn't completely do away with that one, and that they played it randomly throughout the show, because it's so catchy.
In the episode where Monk can't sleep and is trying to find the cab driver lady, and Disher and Stottlemeyer are helping him, Disher seems to be going commando under his Captain America pajamas ;)
I was kind of annoyed at how stupid they made him seem as the show went on. He was definitely one of my favorites, and I was happy with his situation at the end of the show.