Is Bond constantly undermined, sidelined and effectively replaced by Double-O-Diversity, or does she just snipe at him every now and then but basically leave him to save the world (as he should)?
No spoilers please.
They snipe at each other, really. For the most part the movie isn’t “woke”. Bond is front and centre throughout and, ultimately, the movie kinda beats you over the head with the fact that there can only be one 007, really. Bond himself. Even the new 007 acknowledges this (although she doesn’t particularly care for the number either way).
It was a clever PR stunt to get people talking about the film. That’s what I think. I don’t see how it’s a “Bond film for the Me Too era”. I think all that was just to get people talking about the film.
Even the new 007 acknowledges this (although she doesn’t particularly care for the number either way)
Yes but she's barely in the movie compared to Bond, it's really just a gimmick to gain a wider audience.
shareto gain a wider audience?
don't you know this will cause the exact opposite?
people aren't paying for woke shit. and those who claim they are woke, are broke
It’s hardly woke when you see it in action, though. It’s only natural that they would replace 007 and give his number to someone place. Yes she’s a black woman. So what? If she was portrayed as being superior to Bond you’d have a point but she isn’t.
shareYes she [next 007] is a black woman. So what?
Ultimately the proof is, as they say, in the pudding. Regardless of how the marketing seemed, the movie itself is not “woke”. Although, I guess if you’re looking for things you could interpret it to be woke. For instance (Spoiler), Q is confirmed to be gay in this movie. Is that woke in your opinion? Not to me. To me woke is when you’re being basically lectured by a movie or they’re deliberately undermining well established characters like Bond. None of that happens here. It all feels organic and natural. Nothing felt forced or out of place.
shareUltimately the proof is, as they say, in the pudding. Regardless of how the marketing seemed, the movie itself is not “woke”.
Q is confirmed to be gay in this movie. Is that woke in your opinion? Not to me
Love Bond, Connery through now, but I absolutely will not watch this garbage
shareYeah that's what makes this so sad. It burns me up inside so much what they did to one of my favorite franchises.
shareThey're doing it to all our characters. This shit is planned demoralization
shareThat's true.
With Bond gone and Indiana Jones next, is there even anymore mainstream heroes left for them to ravage with their propaganda?
They've wrecked
Picard
Kirk,Bones, Spock
He-Man
Bond
Marvel/DC characters
Tolkien characters
Those are off the top of my head I'm sure I'm forgetting some
Q being gay is a combination of Woke and the silly modern obsession with a 'backstory' of the personal lives of characters. As far as I know the sexual preference of the old Q (Major Boothroyd) was never alluded to, so there's no reason for them to work it into the new version.
shareYes making someone gay FOR NO OTHER REASON THAN TO MAKE HIM GAY is woke. And especially if they do it to a character than wasn't gay before. This is the definition of PC wokeness.
shareIt’s literally one line (“he’s coming for dinner), that’s it. Hardly beating over the head with the fact Q is gay. Also, this version of Q has never stated his sexuality before and the actor who plays him is gay in real life, so if anything I always suspected this version of Q was gay,
shareYou seem very happy about it.
shareI’m indifferent about it. It doesn’t impact on the plot in any way. I mean, if Q’s boyfriend was a major character who gets kidnapped to blackmail Q or some shit, then I’d get your point, but as it is it’s completely irrelevant. Yes, perhaps it is a case of box ticking, but so long as it doesn’t impact the plot I don’t care.
shareWhat does an actor's sexuality have anything to do with it? Where is the actual need to make Q gay in the plot? There is none. They only made him so to check leftist political diversity boxes. My point stands.
share"Yes she’s a black woman. So what?"
So what?? So what?? I'll tell you so what. Black people are already way overrepresented in films like this. The new 007 should be a truly underrepresented minority, like an Uighur chick.
The actual character is what ultimately matters, and Nomi (the new 007) is an interesting character who clashes well with Bond and ultimately grows to respect him to such a degree she gives up her 00 status for him.
If she’d been portrayed as superior to Bond or having zero respect for him, etc, and her just making jabs at him and him not jabbing back, then I’d agree with you. But that isn’t the case and if you’d seen the film you’d understand. If your only problem is her ethnicity I don’t get it.
It also signals that they are ignoring the most basic premise of Bond. 00's are a specific class of spies, and Bond was simply the 7th of them, when they added another 00 agent it would have been 008, then 009 and so on.
shareUmm... in that case, 010 wouldn't be a 00 agent tho'.
shareThere have never, ever been more that 3 00 operatives: 003, 005 and 007. Ian Fleming’s novels stated that very clearly.
shareYou are flat out wrong... going strictly by Fleming's stories you have:
006 in His Majesty's Secret Service
008 in Goldfinger
009 in Thunderball
0011 in Moonraker
and of course 007 in all the Bond books...
So at the very least learn your Bond before you go babbling about things you don't know.
Also I believe when one of them perishes the 00 is assigned to another agent who is capable of fulfilling that role. I believe 006 also appeared in Everything or Nothing, but (spoiler) was killed by Willem Dafoe before Bond could save him.
shareI was only referencing the books written by Fleming as the previous post was babbling about there only being 3 double on agents in the books. Where apparently he has bothered to read all the books or has a bad memory if he did read them.
shareIt's really almost all Daniel Craig's Bond all the time. The other stuff doesn't get all that much screen time. It's a very long movie but way better than QoS and Spectre.
sharei snuck into the movies yesterday to watch this for free without having to pay for it incase if it was actually woke i didnt want em to have my $$$ but couldnt find it so i left without watching any movies cuz there was only stupid comic book hero shit being played and it wasnt even worth my time. i might just pay for it if it isnt actually woke
shareARE YOU JUST MAKING SHIT UP?🤔
sharenaw i am white trash slavic street king who rose from the gutter to become a retired mid 20 year old. but i never lost those street skills that got me where i am today and like to keep them sharp. nothing like sneaking into the movies like James Bond to get you into the mood to watch James Bond. last movie i watched in theaters i didnt pay for either and just snuck in was Joker 2019. if u wanna learn my tricks i made a post about my attack plan and how i go about doing it
https://moviechat.org/general/General-Discussion/61568792b0ef803354f53630/sneaking-into-movie-theaters-is-super-fun-and-pretty-dang-easy
with hollywood being run by a bunch pedos and shit, sneaking in and stealing money from their pockets is the only HONEST way to watch the movie if u ask me
I USED SNAEAK INTO THE MOVIES WEEKLY MYSELF...WHICH WAS ONE OF MY LESSER CRIMES...THE MAJORITY OF MY 20'S WERE SEVERELY MISSPENT...WHEN MY DAUGHTER CAME ALONG I QUIT EVERYTHING COLD TURKEY...I AM NOW MISTER VANILLA.
shareCool story bro'.
shareThey might have been going for a little Woke, but apart from the message to Bond: "You've been replaced", she didn't really do much.
I'm surprised from people here who have seen the movie ignoring the scene
Spoilers ahead
where Lynch asks M if she can give the 007 moniker back to him, which he agrees to. So he is still James Bond 007.
I reckon the next set of movies will be a reboot with a different male actor.
Crucially, even now that he film is out it was never announced that Lynch would take on the 007 role going forward. She only held it briefly for part of this movie...which is what kicked off all of the speculation.
It was a marketing stunt.
shareIt's always about marketing. They want lots of people to watch the movie, and they don't care how and why. It's always been about money.
The Lynch stuff was revealed purely to get people talking about the movie and keep it fresh in the publics eye. The marketing people have done their job.
So when a bunch of people decide NOT to watch the film under the pretense that Bond is replaced by a black woman, HOW exactly is that about money when you've just turned off a large portion of your audience because they're already under the impression -- based on incessant media reports -- that the film is woke?
How well did that work out for Solo: A Star Wars Story and Rise of Skywalker after The Last Jedi? Not very well at all:
https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rise-skywalker-box-office-billion-disappointment-bad-why/
But Bond is not replaced by a woman, she only temporarily holds the 007 title as he is retired. Half way through the movie he gets it back.
I know there were many articles speculating on this before the movie came out, but even the ones I read made it clear that it was only temporary, if you read the article to the end.
And I honestly don't believe that enough people will refuse to watch the movie just because of this, ,certainly not enough to have an adverse effect on the box office.
In my experience, people who either disagree or don't like certain changes in movie franchises like this will aways go and see the movie anyway, despite their protestations.
But Bond is not replaced by a woman, she only temporarily holds the 007 title as he is retired. Half way through the movie he gets it back.
I know there were many articles speculating on this before the movie came out, but even the ones I read made it clear that it was only temporary, if you read the article to the end.
And I honestly don't believe that enough people will refuse to watch the movie just because of this, ,certainly not enough to have an adverse effect on the box office.
In my experience, people who either disagree or don't like certain changes in movie franchises like this will aways go and see the movie anyway, despite their protestations.
Your whole argument is ludicrous, that they deliberately sabotaged the movie and led viewers to believe that Bond would permanently be replaced by a black female 007.
It's the media that perpetrated those stories ,there was never any announcement or confirmation from the film company that it was true. Sure, they will let such rumours circulate for a while because its all publicity, it keeps people talking about the movie, keeps it in the publics minds.
But fundamentally , why would a studio sabotage a major movie like this? They are there to make money...lots of it. End of.
Your argument is pure nonsense.
It's the media that perpetrated those stories ,there was never any announcement or confirmation from the film company that it was true.
Sure, they will let such rumours circulate for a while because its all publicity, it keeps people talking about the movie, keeps it in the publics minds.
But fundamentally , why would a studio sabotage a major movie like this? They are there to make money...lots of it. End of.
Your argument is pure nonsense.
The article above is factually correct....Lynch does assume the 007 role I the movie. But it does not state that she is replacing the character going forward on a permanent basis, and the film company made no official announcement regarding the same. It was the media who ran with this story and speculated that it may be a permanent change. Frankly I knew as soon as I read it that it would only be a temporary assignment...unlike others who screamed woke and believed it...
shareBLACK WOMAN...BLACK WOMAN...BLACK WOMAN...YIKES,BRO.
shareDisgusting.
shareFrom what I understand it's not as woke as we thought it would be. Yes Lashona Lynch is the new 007 which makes sense considering Bond retired and there have been multiple 009's', 008's, etc. throughout the franchise, so of course they are going to reassign the number. Apparently she does take some jabs at Bond but it goes both ways and she does pay respect to him at the end of the film. I have a feeling that back in 2019 when they announced that Lashona Lynch was the "new 007" they were just trying to get people to start talking about the movie and it was just a marketing ploy. They were also probably trying to compensate for some bad press coverage the production was receiving at the time.
Either way from what I've read, being woke is the least of this films problems.
*spoiler warning*
Ultimately woke! Is On Her Majestys Seceret Service And Bond is Tracy. They killed him at the end so that they could continue with a female MI6 agent. A movie that never existed for Bond fans cause the economical background is too obvious. Get Bond out of the way so that this franchise becomes woke only.
But does the film ever confirm that a female agent is going to take over the role? At the end it says "James Bond will return" which to me means they are just going to reboot the franchise AGAIN. Yes that's incredibly lazy but it's better than the alternative.
shareThats the only reason why the killed Bond. So that this character couldnt interfere any more with the new female agent. The same thing they did with Hand Solo and Luke Skywalker. They had to kill them cause otherwise noone would have given a sh*t about the new female characters. The problem was with Star Wars that it was limited in its possibilities cause of the woke ideology and failed completely. And thats what will happen with the new female MI6 agent. She will fail. But that doesnt matter anymore, cause we dont care anymore for Eon Productions.
And James Bond cant return. Hes dead.
That's a possibility. But the reboot is also possible. Maybe they're still weighing them out which one is deemed more profitable. Or maybe not everyone in the production is woke and there is a tug-of-war between them. Maybe they use this movie to gauge their safest route to guaranteed profits next time around.
I think things are still open in the future. Continue with black female 007 or reboot with a new white male actor. Or even a reboot with a white female or black male actor.
Or maybe they will simply give up because Mission:Impossible movies are better at making action spy movies anyway.
Nope, if its just a reboot, then Craig would have stopped playing Bond and another actor would have played him. That happened already a few times I heard :) . But that didnt happen this time. This time they had to build up a ploy so that they could destroy him. Thats what they did. There is no James Bond anymore whom could return. Hes dead and gone. Thats why there is no alternative to a female MI6 agent whom stories would be released by Eon Productions. But again ... Bond is no more and there is nothing open at all.
And BTW Which profit? Noone will watch this obvious cash grab. Eon Productions is history. Another case of "Go Woke, go broke". They will indeed release a woke female MI6 agent movie (cause they have no other option left anymore. They destroyed Bond. Havent you realised that? Hes not alive, and even more important, invincible anymore).). It will lose some money or perhaps even build up some profit. Then they will try another one and that one will kill Eon Productions for sure. Bond and Eon is history. Bond now, Eon within 1-2 female MI6 agent movies.
But no reason for whining. We have 24 more or less good Bond movies to watch. Thats more then 2 full days of entertainment! Things could have been worse.
hey will try another one and that one will kill Eon Productions for sure. Bond and Eon is history. Bond now, Eon within 1-2 female MI6 agent movies.
Im not so sure if it will work that way. Take a look at Star Wars. After the Solo and Star Wars IX desaster they stopped doing Star Wars movies. They will return for sure in a few years, but desasters have an effect on doing sequels/remakes.
Thats why I thought about 1-2 female Bond movies before the desastrous box office results will stop them for at least a decade.
I sure hope you're right.
Disney seems like they will keep making woke Star Wars junk, but decided to hold off on new movies right now to let the bad taste of the sequel trilogy fade from the palate of fans before hitting them with more garbage.
There is no James Bond anymore whom could return. Hes dead and gone.
I still say they don't fully know yet what they are going to do with Bond 26. I can't possibly believe they would make such a radical change to one of the most profitable franchises in cinema history.
Speaking of Star Wars I noticed that the movies that didn't have the original cast no one really came to and the box office numbers were pretty terrible. I think people only came to see Episodes 7-9 because they just wanted to find out what happened to Luke, Han, Leia and Chewie. Now that they are dead I think Star Wars is also dead at the cinema.
Alternatively, 007 is a designation. James Bond is a code name, to be allocated to another agent. Each actor in the franchise has been a different agent under the code name James Bond.
share007 is a agent code. That could be given to anyone. James Bond is the characters name. You have ssen his parents gravestone. So sorry to tell, but Bond is dead. Forever (thats the usual timeframe for being dead ;) ).
shareActually if you actually paid attention you’d know it’s impossible for James Bond to be a code name
It’s his actual name
By spoilers do you mean specific plot points/situations or concepts about their character relationship dynamic?
Well, basically and generally they do clash but not that much. It doesn't come off as being a negative or demeaning scenario but as usual there is friction between Bond and MI6. The film doesn't skirt the "wokeness" factor either just that in a reasonable assessment the characters retain their diginity - no one dominates the story in a sense.
Well, I finally saw it.
Just when it was relieved to see lines like ‘stay in your lane’ removed from the final cut and Nomi gave Bond back his 007 status… they did the most Woke thing possible - they fucking killed James Bond!
This is so much worse than I feared. Here are my thoughts in full: https://moviechat.org/tt2382320/No-Time-to-Die/61569d6ab0ef803354f53693/Huge-Dissapointment-spoilers