HUGE Box Office success! - Avatar: The Way of Water (2022) Discussion

[–] maximmm (3375) 2 years ago

https://variety.com/2022/film/news/box-office-avatar-2-babylon-flops-christmas-1235472702/
Christmas Day is projected to bring in just $34.4 million, which will make it the lowest-grossing holiday (aside from 2020 when most theaters were still closed) in two decades.

Weird.... if there are only 5 releases, shouldn't A2 be making a bank due to lack of competition?
The lowest grossing holiday in 2 decades - holy cow. Looks like the word of mouth is spreading.

reply

[–] Seperatrix (1308) 2 years ago

Could also be that weather conditions impacted the box office. With 1 million without power and horrible road conditions there are more important things to worry about than going to a movie over the holiday weekend.

reply

[–] ebhaynz (3732) 2 years ago

Yes the weather could be a factor but only 31% of the box office is U.S. That's pretty low it's a huge hit overseas.

reply

[–] MartyDeniro (4184) 2 years ago

It's not that the US is pretty low; it's that the foreign is so huge.

reply

[–] vranger (444) 2 years ago

In any case, all the naysayers predicting doom for this film were wrong, as usual. They're nothing more than trolls. And yes, the US Box Office will pick up again when the snow melts. LOL

reply

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Good for James Cameron. The movie still sucked if you aren't impressed by CGI. It still has bad characters, a dumb plot, and awful dialogue. The runtime is WAY too long and the CGI loses its impact. It's just eye candy.

reply

[–] vranger (444) 2 years ago

You do understand that audience exit responses are extremely positive? Evidently your opinion is in a very small minority.

reply

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Yep, and it's still valid. Just wait till you see it at home and you don't have the glitz and glam of a big theater experience. You'll see the issues.

reply

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

Why would anyone want to see this out of a big theater? Are you somewhat shocked about the decline of the US population that can still afford to go to the movies?

reply

[–] MartyDeniro (4184) 2 years ago

It's mid-week totals last week were good. And it has real chance of cracking 1 bil ww before the Jan 1 estimate. But yes, the "does anyone still care" hand wringing stuff was over baked. This franchise isn't going anywhere -- except to theaters around the world again. A Cameron tent pole is as pre-sold as any. Bet against him at your peril.

reply

[–] eastangliauk (400) 2 years ago

good, it's not all about the USA only glad overseas its on fire.
hopefully picks up in USA in the week in better weather there.
the right choice to be in the cinema a good few weeks.

reply

[–] Satan2016 (25887) 2 years ago

We knew domestic was 30% last week. Just like the original.

reply

[–] 000 (473) 2 years ago

my impression
https://i.imgur.com/QlD9881.png

reply

[–] FilmBuff (7360) 2 years ago

It definitely reinforces the already established idea that a certain kind of film-- heavy on CGI light on story-- plays well to the rest of the world. U.S. audiences are a lot more demanding. The drawback is that studios don't keep nearly as much from tickets sold outside the U.S. as they do those sold here. Case in point:

Avatar 2's $280 million domestic gross translates into $168 million in net profit
Avatar 2's $545 million non-China international gross translates into $218 million in net profit
Avatar 2's $57 million domestic gross translates into $14 million in net profit

In other words, making $322 million more overseas than at home only translates to an $64 million in net profit.

On the plus side, with $400 million net profit, the film has almost paid for its production cost and can start working on recouping its advertising budget!

reply

[–] MartyDeniro (4184) 2 years ago

U.S. audiences are a lot more demanding.

Oh, I guess that's why they responded to one film above the others in '22.

https://www.the-numbers.com/market/2022/summary

More than double the domestic haul of Thor: Love and Thunder?!
More than 300M domestic over Doctor Strange 2?!
Not sure how much it'll beat BP2 by yet, other than to say "a lot"

But I wonder if it's the heavy CGI that held those 3 back so far behind TG2? We'll have to see where Avatar 2 finishes on the domestic side to answer that.

reply

[–] FilmBuff (7360) 2 years ago

That has nothing to do with what I wrote, so I don't know how to respond. Best I can do is to reiterate that Avatar 2 is a much bigger hit overseas than it is in the U.S.

reply

[–] MartyDeniro (4184) 2 years ago

Again, you run from your own statements. Stare at that quote. Have you not said this before, that Avatar 2 and TG2 are in some other lower category that appeals outside the US, under the absurd premise we demand more? Pretending that Marvel movies are in some loftier category that US audiences require (as though they're not CGI laden, popcorn movies as well)? How does that hold water when TG2 ALSO raked here, crushing the supposedly higher brow fare called Marvel? How will it hold water if Avatar 2 eclipses the domestic haul of those same offerings? It'll likely pass 2 of 3, if not all 3. So, what do US audiences really demand?

[–] FilmBuff (5413) 23 days ago
Marvel sure has had a stranglehold on the box office for a long time.

In 2022 the three films they released will end the year ranked 2, 3, and 7, and a film they released in 2021 kept earning into 2022 enough to end up 8th on the list.

We'll see if Avatar 2 earns enough to crack the top 10. If a Top Gun sequel can make bank, then anything is possible.

You may have to adjust your conviction on one position, huh? And it took a whopping 7 days for Avatar 2 to crack the Top 10. You may have been the only person in the world who took a "We'll see" attitude towards it reaching that modest rank.

So maybe your read on the public is a bit suspect, huh? Has it dawned on you yet that these movies, TG2, and surely Avatar 2, did much better domestically than you expected simply b/c they don't distinguish them from other action tent poles like you do? TG2 was Marvel's daddy, Avatar is their brother (at the very least), b/c they're all the same family. Sugar, fat, and salt in a logo'd container -- engineered in a lab to taste good, but no one says, "Give my regards to the chef" at Burger King. You inject your personal view into the mind of the "US audience", as though Marvel is fine dining by comparison -- but their wallet reveals their real demands: similar meals, different fast food joints.

reply

[–] FilmBuff (7360) 2 years ago

I've pointed out that Avatar 2 is making the majority of its money overseas, which puts less in Disney's pockets. That's all. You're pulling lines from other threads about other films that have no relevance here.

Yes, I wrote awhile back that Avatar 2 was likely to knock some of the Marvel films down a notch on the top 10. It seems like it may catch up to Thor: Love and Thunder. So my assumption was correct, at least in part, though I thought it might also catch Doctor Strange and Black Panther. It still might. But what does a conversation from 3+ weeks ago about how well the Marvel films have done at the box office have to do with a comparison of Avatar's domestic and global box office? What point are you trying to make? Or, what point that I have not made are you trying to assign to me so you can tell me I was wrong?

As for the types of movies they are, I haven't seen Top Gun 2, Avatar 2, or Black Panther 2, so I can't really comment much about them. All I can say, and all I have said in the past, is that I get the sense that Top Gun 2 and Avatar 2 are CGI blockbuster spectacle films, light on substance but heavy on action. The MCU films feel like a very different animal to me. They rely on CGI for the superhero moments, because they are superhero films, but there is a wit and elegance to them that I don't see in films of Top Gun 2 and Avatar 2's ilk. Those two films in particular may well be exception-- I have no idea-- but anytime I have seen a film of that type, I've walked away feeling like I saw a lot of nothing sandwiched in between CGI action. I never feel that way when I see an MCU film.

reply

[–] MartyDeniro (4184) 2 years ago

As usual, you duck what I specifically pointed out, even though the quote is excerpted to show it. You didn't merely state that Avatar 2 would make more overseas, but you've ALSO stated your theory as to why. That's what I quoted. (And you clearly didn't read the 2nd quote from 23 days ago)

As for the types of movies they are, I haven't seen Top Gun 2, Avatar 2, or Black Panther 2, so I can't really comment much about them.

What?? You already have commented on the first two, multiple times. They're CGI'd "juvenile crap" for "dummies" -- but the US demands a lot more! Really? Then why is one of the two you've put in that lower place already #1 by a lot in the US box office? And how can the other film you put down with this theory, Avatar 2, be tracking down the US total of a major Marvel release in only 2 weeks? B/c the US demands more?? If by "more", you mean TG2 and Avatar 2 over all others, you're right. But that's not what you mean, of course.

You say "The MCU films feel like a very different animal to me." Exactly, to YOU, but the US box office suggests that isn't shared by that audience -- which again, is my point. You're introspecting, then projecting that across an audience that so obviously doesn't say, "Avatar? TG2? That's juvenile crap for dummies. Us Americans prefer movies of substance, like Thor: Love and Thunder".

To think

https://images.app.goo.gl/W4aHTjf2hm55uutD9

would be higher brow than

https://images.app.goo.gl/tY1BJVEuiLJqwqnz7

in their eyes is absurd. They patronize both looking for some popcorn escape. Those that saw BP2 last month, are the same "dummies" seeing Avatar 2 this week. To think that US audiences put the former on high b/c of their supposedly more demanding tastes is silly. US audiences put TG2 first, and there's a chance Avatar 2 will be as high as 2nd. Remember that when you go to McDonald's and see the promotional tie-ins for all films of this ilk. That's the palate of most in the US.

reply

[–] FilmBuff (7360) 2 years ago

You're of course free to respond to anything I write here, but after his I'm not going to bother responding, unless you want to have a normal discussion about film.

You are jumbling up all sorts of things I've written, and applying them to topics they have nothing to do with. You frame every post as if we are in some sort of heated debate, and you're constantly trying to prove... something. I have no idea what. You ramble, and you rant.

I don't come here to argue. I don't come here to prove points. I don't come here to put anyone down or judge anyone. I'm here to share my personal thoughts on films. If you disagree, great! If you'd like to discuss how we disagree, also great! You certainly don't seem to want to do those things, so there's no need for us to go back and forth.

I'll again sum up everything I've said here, which maybe you will see has nothing to do with your reply. Or, maybe you won't, and you'll launch another tirade my way.

I personally don't tend to enjoy films like Avatar. I've never seen Avatar, so I don't know if it is something I would enjoy, but I lump it with Transformers, Fast and Furious, Jurassic World, Black Adam, Suicide Squad, Hunger Games. I've seen nearly none of those films I listed-- they might all be Citizen Kane level masterpieces-- but I've seen enough of them, and similar films, to have made a decision to avoid them.

I notice that Avatar is making a lot more overseas than here in the U.S. That makes sense to me, as those kinds of films play well internationally.

Despite assuming I wouldn't, I've found the MCU films to be very well-made. They are character and plot driven rather than sequences of CGI set pieces, and they have a very intelligent humor to them. I've not experienced that in the other blockbuster films I've seen, so they stand out. To me. They certainly do seem to make a lot of money, so clearly others enjoy them too. That they don't make more than every film ever released is not, in my mind, an indictment of them.

I have no bias for or against any film, studio, director, or actor. I have my own worldview and political stance, but for the most part I ignore it when films put forth one of their own. If they seem to be going out of their way to shove a political stance down the audience’s throat, I find it off-putting, but by and large I realize that filmmakers will often stuff a message into their films. I can ignore messaging to a point, as long as the film is good.

reply

[–] MartyDeniro (4184) 2 years ago

Talk about rambling. Another long reply without an answer. With that entire filibuster, you avoided the one thing that I first replied with, just like last time with that 25-40 range that you dare not utter until the next weaker Marvel performer needs some cost reduction. No bias there. Right.

You said US audiences demand a lot more. It's that assertion that is strangely missing from your summary above. But your two examples of inferior fare, that you've labeled "juvenile crap" for "dummies" before, have somehow managed to climb to the heights of the US box office, right? TG2 is already #1, and Avatar 2 is legging up. How can that be? If they're beneath Marvel in substance, why have they propelled them above that supposedly superior fare? This is the US, right? Per FilmBuff, we're a lot more demanding. Your quote. Again.

U.S. audiences are a lot more demanding.

If one bought into that, they'd expect to see your two favorite targets of derision to be behind in the US instead of the leading the pack. How do you reconcile that? Something is clearly off. Is this evidence that your assertion is flawed? Can you address that now rather than another blizzard of words that tip toes around it once again? Rather than going off on worldview and messaging tangents that are irrelevant to the point?

The only thing that extends these volleys is your penchant for avoiding my point from the start. No answer, over and over, strongly suggests you can't. I'm sorry, but you can't have a normal discussion when one side can't even acknowledge what he said in the past, whether it be months, weeks, days, or even an hour ago. Honesty is required for that, rather than pretending you can't see your own words when someone points to them, or pretending that it's slander(?!) or "meaningless chatter" when you can't deal with their obvious implications.

reply