i'm guessing he escaped arkham during this movie?
how could bruce wayne just chill while the joker is out committing crime?
Yes he escaped but he went to Metropolis. Its Supermans problem now
shareBruce Wayne isn't chilling anywhere after this movie. He died at the end!
shareHe literally didn’t.
shareEh?
He literally got blown up flying that bomb away over the sea. That's exactly how the film finishes!
No, Bruce after that scene shows up at some cafe having lunch with the Catwoman. Alfred spots him
shareYeah but that was just supposed to be Alfred's imagination wasn't it?
To give us a bittersweet ending. Remember Alfred had already said his hope was to see Bruce give it up and he'd see him somewhere and they'd slightly nod but not really publicly acknowledge each other...
Bruce flew a nuclear device out to sea and was well within the blast zone when it went off. He couldn't get away in time and died for sure. A hero's death.
I never thought of that. Very astute observation. You could be right. I always thought he retired till the events in Batman V Superman
shareIndeed I'd say if Bruce Wayne had survived being in the vicinity of an exploding nuclear device in order to be sitting sipping on coffees we'd have a rather large plot hole...
shareBut since Batman came out of retirement in Batman V Superman, I guess he somehow survived. But perhaps Nolans vision at the time was to have Batman dying at the end
shareWhy do you act atupid on purpose, you know dam well the dark knight rises and bvs are seperate movies
shareHow so? Maybe set in the same universe? In BvS, Batman is retired, who comes out of retirement. And I am NOT stupid!
shareYes i know but why do you act stupid? How is it the same universe? There completely different actors how is bvs linked to TDKR in your mind? Are you saying bvs is a sequel to TDKR?
shareNo, Batman V Superman is a sequel to Man of Steel
shareso do you believe TDKR is linked to that Universe? so Man of Steel and BVS? that's what you are implying ? and if you are imply that they are linked, what on earth gave you that idea?
shareOf course they are linked despite having different actors playing the part of Batman. Batman came out of retirement from this movie in BvS
sharedo you really believe that ? so you believe Chris Nolan's Dark Knight Trilogy is a prequel to Man of steel and BVS? so Christian Bales Batman came out of retirement and the same Character appeared in BVS?
as i said, why do you believe they are linked ?
It's pretty obvious they are not linked. They are completely different story lines. The most significant proof is that Affleck's Batman did not "Come out of retirement". He has been active the whole time and still acting as Batman.
shareThis would render the entire and very specific and very obvious plot point about the auto pilot not working, then the auto pilot being fixed by Wayne, completely pointless. And yet it is in there for obvious reasons.
shareYes it is there for a very specific reason - to give Alfred some hope that Bruce could have survived.
Otherwise you cannot have the bittersweet ending with Alfred imagining his fantasy outcome for Bruce.
But we - the viewers - have very clearly seen that Bruce could not have survived.
haha yeah I get it now: it was ALFRED who tried to reprogram the autopilot, but he put Bruce's name on it!! That's Genius.
And the part where the space aliens flew in the flying saucer and absorbed the aftermath radiation was pretty cool and unexpected.
Did you catch the secret message buried in the credits, that was found using only every 37th letter? Brilliant stuff!
haha yeah I get it now: it was ALFRED who tried to reprogram the autopilot, but he put Bruce's name on it!! That's Genius.
Where did they tell us Alfred knew any thing about the autopilot?
shareTwo answers for that which I'll leave for you to pick your preference:-
1. In the same place they told us how Bruce managed to presumably eject from the bat wing within seconds of a nuclear explosion over an ocean and survive...
Or
2. They didn't. We have to make the utterly incredible, ney mind-blowing deduction that Fox may just possibly have told him his former master had fixed the autopilot!
"So The Batman died but Bruce Wayne did not."
is THIS ^^^ what you have been saying all along? If so, I apologize for rattling on about this, I simply read your reply wrong. Sorry again
But Bruce has a headstone like Batman has a statue in Memorium.
sharei dont recall that, but believe you.
doesn't that exist to play into the "starting life over" faked death thing?
Yeah, I can agree with that too, which would make sense as to Nole's statements regarding the end.
For me though, I've always liked the idea that Bruce dying -- a self-sacrifice; but I know it doesn't work storywise.
But we - the viewers - have very clearly seen that Bruce could not have survived.
I don’t think so. I think he supposedly got the autopilot program to work. So The Batman died but Bruce Wayne did not.
shareI think Bruce put the flier on remote control. Why die if you don't have to.
shareUhhh no he didn’t, he fixed the autopilot and then he was seen at a cafe in Florence. Were you paying attention?
shareBoth the things you have said here are factually correct.
He fixed the autopilot and Alfred "saw" him in Florence.
I have explained why Alfred sees him and why it makes for a powerful ending elsewhere in this thread.
What would the point of Bruce fixing the autopilot be if he didn't use it?
shareMaybe he did use it, who knows 🤷
Look at my post a bit further down though. The actual scene shows him still sitting in the cockpit within 9 seconds of the atomic detonation.
If you assume that bat wing is travelling at ~ 200mph say and he then ejected, would he even hit the water before being hit by the shockwave of a nuclear device?!! He's going to be at best about half a mile away, either in the air or hitting the water, when the nuclear shockwave hits him...
How is he surviving this?
If you assume that bat wing is travelling at ~ 200mph say and he then ejected, would he even hit the water before being hit by the shockwave of a nuclear device?!! He's going to be at best about half a mile away, either in the air or hitting the water, when the nuclear shockwave hits him...
How is he surviving this?
You have no evidence whatsoever to support your fan fiction
shareAs per my previous post, I have extensively gone over the scene in question further down in this same thread.
See my replies to GreenGoblinsOck8.
Perhaps, if you aren't able to contest the fact based evidence of a scene within the actual movie itself, this isn't exactly the great masterpiece you'd claim it to be?
My point still stands , even Nolan confirmed he’s alive and it would have been stupid to kill him off
shareYour point doesn't stand. You said I provided no evidence but I have.
And it isn't "fan fiction", it's interpretation. If Nolan had wished to make his ending unambiguous, he could easily have done so. Yet he failed.
Even Bale conceded it was open to interpretation based upon the final product.
And are you really still going to refuse to discuss the actual scene and give me some explanation based upon what we actually SEE of how he may have survived? The best you can really do is bumble on "well Nolan said so, so that's it!"? You can't actually discuss the actual FILMED scenes and describe how it would be possible? LOL 😂
It’s not interpretation, there is literally NOTHING to suggest he died and even the director confirmed he lived, he would know more than you would. He never left it unambiguous, it clearly said that Bruce is alive. You’re just making stuff up and it seems pretty much everyone on this board is trying to tell you the same thing I am.
shareDude, I have already directed you down to my reply to GreenGoblinsOck8 where I specifically gave a link to the scene in question, the timings, etc.
If you want to discuss where I'm "making stuff up" by directly referencing the film, then please point out what I have said that is wrong against that particular post. Otherwise you are just pissing in the wind...
It is absolutely NOT clear he is alive based upon what Nolan produced in the scene HE shot in the film HE made.
I have read your comments and they are unjustified and nothing more than your own personal opinion. Bruce is alive, it’s not an opinion as to whether he’s alive or not, it’s an objective fact. Are you trolling me or are you really this stupid? I guess by your logic it’s up to interpretation whether Frodo Baggins and Samwise Gamgee really destroyed the one ring, maybe the entire journey was just an acid trip Bilbo and Gandalf had.
shareSorry, but that's utter bollocks.
There's nothing "personal opinion" about what I have written re Bruce still being in the cockpit NINE seconds before the explosion.
This isn't some subjective point, it's what we literally see on the screen.. it's 100% undeniable.
You can argue for your interpretation, yes sure, but your failure to even acknowledge the basics of what we are presented with ON THE SCREEN is laughable...
Undoubtedly though, even now you will simply refuse to engage in any actual discussion re this scene and show yourself to be intellectually dishonest by simply rehashing your "making stuff up" line. Of course I appreciate that's all you can do, as it would be impossible to acknowledge the timings of that scene and claim with any objective certainly that he survived without looking like an idiot.
So this really is pissing the wind at this point... Thank you and a good day to you sir 👍.
No one is pissing in the wind but yourself. The movie directly tells us that he is alive. This isn’t Blade Runner, this isn’t Inception, there is nothing ambiguous about this. The director confirmed that he is alive. You are making stuff up and all you’re doing is embarrassing yourself.
shareThen what do you call the scene at the end where Alfred sees Bruce and Selena together at a restaurant? Are you saying that Alfred just imagined that? Or that Alfred himself is dead?
shareYes, he imagined seeing him as per his earlier discussion with Bruce of his dreams for his future.
shareAnd he just happened to imagine the pearls on Selina’s neck or the scar that Bane gave him that he didn’t know about?
shareThat might be your interpretation but it certainly isn't how me or anyoneI know interpreted it. We all thought he was alive and living happily ever after with Selina. Especially since in comics, this could never happen for obvious reasons.
shareOk, so here's the scene in question:-
https://youtu.be/YR8xj7dacKs
The funny thing is this actually plays out SLOWER than real time, so it's not like there's even a gap where we can go "Ah, he got out at this point".
i.e. One second into this clip, it shows 1:57 on the bomb and the bomb explodes at 2:25, so we lose a few seconds presumably to get Blake's POV but there is no "hidden time" so to speak...
We see Batman still in the cockpit at 1:44 (buildings behind him) as he makes his way out over the harbour.
We see him again at 2:14 in the cockpit (flickering sunlight clearly visible) - 9 (NINE) seconds before the nuclear device explodes, with the bat wing already miles out to sea.
Cool, I get that the Fox autopilot exposition gives you the ambiguity to believe him alive if you wish but at what point exactly did he set the autopilot and get out?
This is before withstanding the point he's told Selina the autopilot isn't working (had he forgot or was he also faking his death from her? 🤔) or going into just how exactly Alfred could stumble into the same riverside cafe as Bruce is in on another continent and at some undetermined point in the future!
I think the fact that he died "interpretation" surely requires much less mental gymnastics here...
Whatever. We're all entitled to our own interpretations. I have to admit I do no care for this movie that much but implying that Bruce lived and got to be with Selena is more satisfying than him dying.
shareSure, yeah each to their own, interpret whatever way you prefer 👍
I was just pointing out the implausibly of him surviving given what we see. Some people suggest the bittersweet Alfred ending is nuts but given what we see in that last scene I prefer to believe in the likelihood of that outcome. I also agree that this film isn't the best but think him sacrificing himself for Gotham gives it some additional weight.
Implausibility exists throughout this entire series, that shouldn't be the basis for determining the films intention. They gave us 2 nods suggesting Bruce survived, one with the autopilot reference and the other with Alfred seeing him. I also don't think he happened to bump into Alfred, he put himself there intentionally so Alfred would see him. The did all of that to remove the ambiguity, not enforce it.
share...he put himself there intentionally so Alfred would see him
He's batman, the world's greatest detective. Him figuring out where Alfred is having lunch is very reasonable.
shareMaybe but it's a bit goofy Adam West Batman rather the supposedly more grounded Batman of this series.
i.e. He was a vague knowledge Alfred likes a cafe somewhere on the banks of the river in Florence. He's made a secret escape but is checking in on Alfred's holiday schedule continuously, so he's ready to move a moment's notice. He follows Alfred on arrival in Florence - with Selina by his side - until he can see he's making his way to his favourite cafe. He and Selina then presumably bomb in ahead of Alfred so they can get themselves seated and half way through their meal / drinks just before Alfred sits down... 😂
Yeah, possible I guess but definitely a bit 60s Batman. I can almost imagine the spinning Bat symbol in the cuts between the above mentioned chain of events.
That's 9 seconds of screen time. Doesn't mean only 9 seconds passed.
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I'm rarely happy with editing like that. Where the movie is edited to trick the viewer into thinking it was a very short amount of time only to see that it was longer. It's a cheap way to generate tension.
shareI agree - but it does happen, so one should never assume that 1 second of screen time = 1 second of actual time elapsed.
shareYou absolutely shouldn't in this film. As per my comment a couple of posts further up:-
i.e. One second into this clip, it shows 1:57 on the bomb and the bomb explodes at 2:25, so we lose a few seconds presumably to get Blake's POV but there is no "hidden time" so to speak...
You're right, movie time does not equal real time. Point well-taken.
It's not that it's impossible to conceive of the film as having extra time, it's that (for me) the movie "cheats" with the editing, showing us an "unwinnable" scenario and then just going, "Oh, it was winnable," without showing us the method of how it was done AND cheating us of the real time.
It would be different it we flashed back to something that should us the method used, but the whole thing was pretty disappointing.
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The Joker is either dead or locked up somewhere safe
shareBane didn’t release the inmates of Arkham, he released the inmates of Blackgate who were not mentally ill.
shareThat would have made this movie interesting, but I don't think that was Nolan's intention.
shareHE LIVES NEXT DOOR TO BRIAN FROM THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS.
shareThe real answer is Heath Ledger died so the Joker couldn't be a character in this.
share