MovieChat Forums > Licorice Pizza (2021) Discussion > What was Paul Thomas Anderson thinking!?...

What was Paul Thomas Anderson thinking!??

posted 2 years ago by Matt2h (6)
22 replies | jump to latest

Alana Kane is a SEX OFFENDER! Look I know we're feeling all nostalgic and cute about the story but the ages are really a problem. He could have made them any ages but he chose to make him 15 and her like 25?? School photographer exposes herself to a student. Their entire relationship is not right. It's such an overly literalistic entitled male way of thinking to say well technically they never consummated it. Imagine if the genders were reversed. Imagine the headlines in the newspaper. It doesn't matter how romantic it seemed to them. It was a wildly inappropriate relationship. Anderson engages in some gaslighting and denial in interviews about this saying that there's not a controversial bone in the film's body but it really is a major problem.

[–] stickman38 (3349) 2 years ago

I disagree. While the age difference is awkward, it wasn't in poor taste or unethical. No one in their right mind would view Alana as a sex offender. Even if the roles were reversed, I still wouldn't view it as "sex crime taking place".

This was the 70s. Older/younger relations were not viewed in such a way that creates a "victim" and a "criminal". We can't really judge it by the standards of today. Whether you agree with current sex laws or not, this movie is rather tame compared to some others with similar plots.

But just for the record, I didn't care for this film that much, I thought it was decent entertainment. The age difference didn't bother me, I was more bothered by how much older Gary sounds. He sounds like a 30 year old but again, different topic...

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

Some thoughts:

ONE: In his second movie(the one that put him on the map) -- Boogie Nights -- Julianne Moore plays a 30-somethign porn star who sees porn newbie Mark Wahlberg as "her baby boy" -- a substitute for he child she lost to Child Protective Services. She is always acting like his "mommy" and comforting him as her "baby." But...she has sex with him "professionally" as a porn star and then personally comes on to him later for sex. So " a mother who has sex with her son." In other words, if PTA was interested in selling THAT story with Boogie Nights, I'd say he is a director who kind of digs on perversity without broadcasting it.

TWO: "What if the sexes were reversed?" doesn't really work. PTA was asked that very question and said "I never considered that version." Which is another way of saying: it matters a LOT that this story is about a "boy" doing the pursuing, and a young woman doing the resisting. She is NOT a predator, or grooming him. She is responding to him as a young man with ideas and ambition and the potential for being a friend, a meal ticket...maybe, eventually a lover.

And let's look at the comedy version: SNL did a courtroom sketch on this years ago where Pete Davidson played a teenage boy on the stand in a trial against the hot female teachers who had sex with him. Prosecutor asks: "And what did the other boys in school say about this? Davidson answers: "They called me a God among men," uh "Luckiest guy in the world," uh "My MAN." In short, for young guys older women have ALWAYS been a big deal (See: The Graduate, way back when.)

CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

The movie is a love story, and one of the great ones, if you ask me -- particularly in an era where we don't GET them anymore.

The age thing is "important" -- the whole reason for the movie, the whole obstacle to the love story from the get-go. But it is not insurmountable.

When the movie ends, Gary can drive -- he's 16. 16 is the age of consent in Nevada. Gary's PR firm does work in Las Vegas. Gary and Alana can move there. Problem solved.

[–] stickman38 (3349) 2 years ago

ecarle, you might be Licorice Pizza's biggest fan. lol...

I listened to some of Alana Haim's music today. I know we talked about this other day.

I think it's well constructed music but missing those catchy hooks. In fact, the chorus sections in their songs don't sound much different than the versus. But it's pretty good music.

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

ecarle, you might be Licorice Pizza's biggest fan. lol...

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Yeah, like Kathy Bates in "Misery."

It goes like this: I read some early "Best Movie of 2021" reviews on Licorice Pizza, so I was curious (as it turned out, there weren't too many of them.) That "biased me" going in(along with PTA as the director), but I WAS immediately taken by the movie.

I think the first five consecutive scenes are "golden" --both the story and our emotional connection to it are launched), and I went back to see it a second time in the theater immediately, to "study it." On that showing I came to understand WHY I loved the opening scene(its the second scene, but it opens the story) so much the first time -- the set-up(Alana has to offer a comb and mirror to each student; Gary uses that as the hook to talk to her), the music ("July Tree" a strong song about growing love) , the dialogue, the acting, the two young actors, the colors(Alana's blue photography squad outfit, the sunny gold SoCal look), the characters, the camera movement, EVERTHING (right down to how Alana holds herself to watch Gary get photographed, and how the photographer slaps her on the ass and she "takes it.")

And that's just ONE scene.

Others may not have liked that, but I did (and I found some critics who did, too.) When Oscar time came, one critic pushing for the movie to win said "I could watch Licorice Pizza twice a day." I could too... I DON"T, but it holds together that well for me. Even WITH some scenes I'm not crazy about -- few movies are perfect.

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CONT

[–] ecarle (14979) 2 years ago

I listened to some of Alana Haim's music today. I know we talked about this other day.

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Yes. Recall that part of the "Licorice Pizza" experience for me was sending me to the Haim sister songs(and their funny, if rather pre-fab, interviews). To me, this was the "pleasurable package deal of 2021 and 2022" -- discovering Licorice Pizza and discovering Haim. They weren't part of my life, and now they are. And in year when a lot of real life kinda sucks...its nice to have some things in the "plus column."

I've been discussing both the movie and the band out here in "real life," and its been tricky. Some people are really bugged by the age thing in Licorice Pizza(but I'm not), some people wonder if I'm maybe too old to be liking a "girl band" (well, they're not teenagers -- one is nearing 40; I like the music, and I've read of other older fans.)

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I think it's well constructed music but missing those catchy hooks. In fact, the chorus sections in their songs don't sound much different than the versus.

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That's an interesting analysis.

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But it's pretty good music.

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Yes. Danielle is the true talent of the sisters -- I guess there is SOME risk that she goes "solo" but they seem very close. They have this great back story of their parents -- one an Israeli immigrant, both musicians who did things like teaching and construction and real estate on the side -- training the girls to become musicians. There doesn't seem to be any "whip cracking paternal abuse" as with some other family bands.

And also that funny business -- songs that sound (on PURPOSE) like The Eagles, Lou Reed, Sheryl Crow, Fleetwood Mac -- its almost like they are a cover band.

Recommended: a "new" Bruce Hornsby tune called "Days Ahead" with Danielle Haim as a guest vocalist with her sweet voice on duet. I didn't even know Bruce Hornsby still worked, but he does, and he landed the Best Haim for support(they share a studio producer, her boyfriend.)

[–] MoviesSuck (964) 2 years ago

No one reads newspapers anymore.

[–] HarlemEagle42 (17790) 2 years ago

Fair enough.

[–] Who (5146) 2 years ago

Spoiler Alert - No one has sex in this film. There are innuendos about off camera sexual activity, but not between Alana and Gary. Showing her boobs to Gary wasn’t a sexual overture. It was the endpoint of their debate about her going topless in films.

[–] Matt2h (6) 2 years ago

Being an adult school photographer and exposing yourself to a student is the crime

[–] liscarkat (18456) 2 years ago

It's not a crime. When I was younger than fifteen I saw a woman's bare boobs. I assure you, I wasn't traumatized. I quite enjoyed it. I still think about it occasionally, and smile.

[–] Burgershmurger (1365) a year ago

Traumatized isn't the point. It's more about being enticed to having sex at a young age. And the younger people are the more likely it is they won't be able to have serious relationship because they will be going after the high for the rest of their lives. It's like with drinking: the earlier you start drinking the likelier the addiction.

[–] Heisenberg (6730) a year ago

Who has not seen a woman's bare boobs before 15???

[–] sut6432 (2908) 2 years ago

I know a lot of society hates to hear this, but there IS a difference when the woman is older in this type of relationship, though everyone tries to make it seem like it’s the same thing.

It’s wrong, and I will admit that, but I still chuckle when I hear about the gorgeous female teachers and the male teenage students having relationships, and how the woman “took advantage of” the teenage boy, and how much of a monster she is. I think every straight teenage boy in the world would love to be in that situation. Haha. He’s a hero to his friends, and he gets to have sex with a beautiful older woman. That poor kid is going to be scarred for life. Lol. South Park did a great episode about this, called “Miss Teacher Bangs a Boy”. 🤣

I think it comes down to the physical strength to be able to control the situation, and that is why there is such a difference in society between an older man in an inappropriate relationship and a older woman in an inappropriate relationship. I’m not saying I’m right, but that’s the way I see it.

[–] liscarkat (18456) 2 years ago

Alana is not a sex offender. She and Gary did not have sex, unless you count her allowing him to see her boobs for two seconds. They didn't even have a romantic relationship, until they kissed at the end. They were just friends and business partners.

There is nothing immoral or illegal about a twenty-five-year-old woman being friends with a fifteen-year-old boy.

I really liked their relationship. I would have loved to have had a relationship like that with an older woman when I was a teenager.

Alana's and Gary's relationship in the movie is not "a major problem".

The more I think about it, the more I like it.

[–] Matt2h (6) 2 months ago

Think about how it would read in the newspaper. School photographer charged with indecent exposure. School photographer exposes herself to a child. I'm just saying the movie makes it seem like nothing but it's a problem

[–] swgohmofo (6) 16 days ago

Imagine this headline:

Woman exposes breast's to infant, filling its mouth with liquid.

"That was one hungry baby"

The horror!

[–] HEHEHO2022 (4) 2 years ago

Let me ask. Why do characters in you eyes have to do the morlly right thing?

Also why cherry pick this film to do after. You cant tell me that there is not 1 film youre a fan of that doesnt have morally bad characters in.

Im sick to death of people nowadays gatekeeper what we can and cannot have in films.

I dont love this film BECAUSE Alana is doing things she shouldnt do i love the film because the characters and story is entertaining.

[–] mariomonsieur (289) 21 days ago

We don't exactly know it was complete exposure, so he can get the feel of the hairs raised on her sweater vest and yet didn't have 'full contact' privileges.

[–] mariomonsieur (289) 21 days ago

Of course, I'm rogering unconvinced Bond was blown up. Neither though is this Holden character seen passing the torch.

[–] beauq81 (1094) 21 days ago

Tell that to Emmanuel Macron