Why does everyone hate Hayley
She's not my fav character or anything, but I thought she was tough, cool headed and smart. She was the perfect match to Jeffs charming likeable persona.
Because they are stupid. Seriously. They only recognize Jeff's charisma and her lack thereof and don't go on to realize that she stopped a rapist murderer.
Check out my list, recommendations welcome.
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
Because they are stupid. Seriously. They only recognize Jeff's charisma and her lack thereof and don't go on to realize that she stopped a rapist murderer.
She is a murderer herself. And a sociopath.
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FALSE. She didn't murder Jeff. Not by a long shot.
So says The Goats!
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
Forcing him to commit suicide is the equivalent of murder in my opinion.
Not to mention, she broke every law in the book practically to coax him into her little trap.
___________________
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The Hole 6/10
Control 7/10
Drive 7/10
FALSE. She didn't force him to commit suicide. I've run thru this ad nauseum. Go read my other posts. She gave him the choice of jail or death, he CHOSE DEATH.
So says The Goats!
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
FALSE. He chose jail. Pay a little more attention next time. He told Hayley to call the police while he was tied up instead of torturing him and cutting his balls off.
It was only after he realized that Hayley called the love of his life (whom he photographed as a teenager) and told her to come over that he chose suicide, because he didn't want to expose himself to the woman he felt was his true love.
Ad-your-nauseum.
And even if this wasn't the case, hypothetically. Civilians don't get to make the choice on who "deserves to die." (With the exception of Judge and Jurors) That is for a court of law. Not a 14 year old psychopathic girl.
-After she found the child porn she should have got out of there and called the police.
-After she discovered he knew something about or was in on the missing girl posted in the diner, she should have got out of there and called the police.
That's cute that your such a big fan of vigilantism, maybe you belong in a third world country and not a civilized governed by law nation.
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Boy Wonder 9/10
Seeking Justice 6/10
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Control 7/10
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Nah, I'm a fan of justice. Which is what her unorthadox means accomplished, in the end.
And Hayley's ultimate goal was PROOF. The reason she pushed him so far was for evidence to hold up in court. It is slowly revealed thru the film that he was indeed guilty, and the audience has to THINK a little bit through the dialogue that Hayley had inside knowledge of his participation. His actions were so heinous that he was willing to lose his balls to keep her away from the proof.
Throwing around what she "should" have done is besides the point that she only forced him into a choice. At the end of the film, all he had to do was sit and wait on his ex to show up, and Hayley would have either had to murder him with the gun, or she would have gone to jail also for the reasons you listed. My guess is she thought the risk was worth it, for justice.
Your point was that she forced him to hang himself (not verbatim here), but in reality she only made him choose his fate. I'm NOT here to debate the totality of her morality(thats a different matter of MY OPINION), only dismissing the asinine notion that all the herpaderp know it alls inevitably come to this board and toss around...that Hayley forced him into suicide, thereby becoming murder.
Jeff had the chance to get away clean, and stabbed the wall with the knife he also tried to kill Hayley with.
AND IN ADDITION, consider that she was 14. Not Ellen Page, but Hayley. This grown man takes her into his sick world, and gets her drunk (to his knowledge). Personally, I don't think she thought he'd hold out so long on the proof, but once she got it, a 14 year old was probably not prepared to find pictures so damning that a grown ass man would let her slice his nuts off to hide them. It could be argued that her age, naivety, and vulnerabilty (even though articulate) COULD excuse some or all of what she did to HIM in that situation (legally speaking) That is not my main point, just something to chew on.
So says The Goats!
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
It's cute, you ignoring all my points and you don't even remember the film
You had no answer for the fact that Jeff told Haley to call the police instead of castrating him.
Also, you obviously need to see the movie again, because Hayley found the child porn in the safe before the threat of castration was even on the table. It was only after discovering the child porn stash that she moved into her "pretending to castrate him stage."
And no, you're not a fan of justice, you're a fan of vigilante justice, huge difference there pal. I don't care if she had enough condemning evidence to stack to the ceiling. She's not a police officer. She is not within her rights to do ANYTHING she did. You say you don't want to debate the morality of it... of course you don't because there's nothing moral about it. And that, is why so many people dislike the Hayley character, sorry to disappoint you.
I don't think I should have to explain to you again why he finally chose suicide at the end. It wasn't because of facing prison. I explained why in my last post, go back read carefully.
And finally to put you in your grave and dump the dirt on top: LISTEN CAREFULLY NOW, cause clearly you're not very bright.
INCRIMINATING EVIDENCE THAT IS ILLEGALLY OBTAINED WILL BE THROWN OUT IN A COURT OF LAW.
U.S. Constitution
Fourth Amendment - The Fourth Amendment proscribes unreasonable seizure of any person, person's home (including its curtilage) or personal property without a warrant. A seizure of property occurs when there is "some meaningful interference with an individual's possessory interests in that property" Evidence obtained in violation of the Fourth Amendment cannot be used to convict someone of a crime.
In other words, everything that this vigalante psychopath found in Jeff's home was unlawfully obtained and thereby would be inadmissible in a court of law.
You're welcome for the education session.
___________________
Boy Wonder 9/10
Seeking Justice 6/10
The Hole 6/10
Control 7/10
Drive 7/10
Perhaps you should have educated Jeff. Given the chance to hide behind the laws you stated, he STILL tried to kill Hayley.
Its really irrelevant to my main point how a BS legal system would process the evidence that the audience knows to be authentic. Just my 2 cents, but I have a really, really hard time believing he'd get away scott free under all the film's circumstances. Especially, since, you know, she was 14, half naked, and inebriated in a murdering pedo's home. He was committing crimes against Hayley before Hayley even got started.
At the end of the film, he had the choice 100% to commit suicide or go to jail. (or at least face his crimes and hope someone lawyers him out of jail) He chose suicide, because of his OWN crimes against children who were never given a choice, and their lives were so senselessly ruined. His suicide was only a continuation of his selfishness. His apologies, therapy, and doing the time for doing the crime COULD have helped piece together the innocent lives he shattered. But he only cared about his reputation, and fearing bigger monsters coming for HIM. Pretty lenient on him in my book, but thats my two cents.
If you think about it, she really only pointed out the obvious. Every day he has the choice to commit suicide or not, we all do. All she did was put him in a position that he couldn't escape this time. He had a choice. That is my point, and in your own words you acknowledge it. A choice is not a force. Let it go.
So says The Goats!
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
I find it ironic you use the word "Circumstances" because that is circumstantial evidence. Again, he said/she said, won't hold up in a court of law. Lol, my roommate is pre-law I learned a lot about being around him.
Anyway, Again he killed himself at the end, because of his long lose love "Janelle" coming over because Hayley called her, not because of the crimes, or being prosecuted. That was made obvious when Jeff first told Hayley to call the cops, and then when he was about to get his nuts cut, "Why don't you just kill me."
Also, if you forgot which you probably did, there were two hanging scenes. One of which Hayley told him to kill himself and she'd cover up the evidence, and if he didn't she'd just kick the chair out from under him (He got her in a choke hold with a leg scissors and got his feet to the counter and escaped)
And besides, I think the end was BS anyway. Most pedophiles are at least partially aware of the law, so I challenge the movie's credibility that Jeff would have killed himself anyway, but that's how they wrote it, so what ya gonna do?
___________________
Boy Wonder 9/10
Seeking Justice 6/10
The Hole 6/10
Control 7/10
Drive 7/10
And she didn't force him to kill himself, in the end. Sure she wanted him to do it, but we'll never know if she really would have kicked the chair out. Considering she had a scalpal to his nuts, I think she had the chance to get the job done if that was her goal. But you seem to get all that. Peace.
So says The Goats!
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
reading your posts i gotta say, that you have not the slightest idea what the term "irony" means.
apart from that, you really have a hard time, finding a single straight thought, aren't you?
"laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone." - Dae-su Oh
[deleted]
Found the pedophile.
shareIn other words, everything that this vigalante psychopath found in Jeff's home was unlawfully obtained and thereby would be inadmissible in a court of law.
Hate to break it to you, SpookShow, but you are quite mistaken. As you said yourself, Hayley is not a law enforcement officer or gov't official, but a private citizen. In court, evidence illegally obtained from a defendant by a private person is admissible, unless that person is acting under the direction or as an agent of a law enforcement or gov't agency.
The fourth amendment protects citizens from the gov't and its agents, not from other citizens.
You're welcome for the education session.
As are you :)
share
[deleted]
You are an idiot.
She planned it all along. It's premeditated murder, plain and simple.
Was it justified? If Jeff was guilty, maybe. But it still wasn't her call to make.
In the end, if she didn't set the whole thing up, he would be alive. Pedophile or not, she killed him, AND the other guy.
None of your other points even matter. If she went to the cops, he would have lived.
And in the end, what did Hayley get out of it? A lifetime of double murder always on her mind. She sure as hell didn't get her friend back.
She gave him the option to choose prison.
So says The Goats!
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
she also removed that option. she gave it to him repeatedly and then took it away since he was willing to choose prison.
it was never her intention to choose prison. this is pretty clear with her actions to the end of the movie.
***
Go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
So much wrong there I don't think we watched the same movie. Addressing the last comment there, we don't know what she would have done because he tried to kill her when HE COULD HAVE RAN.
So says The Goats!
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
i think you are right, we didn't see the same movie.
***
Go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!
What did Hayley get out of it?
The peace of mind that she took two twisted, child-abusing, child-killing sick *beep* off the streets, never to harm another girl again. Guys who were so depraved that, when caught, fought and fought to deny that they had done anything wrong; who were quite okay with continuing to do the same evil s*** they had been doing; and who both chose death over having to face a life where everyone knew what they were and what they had done.
Me, I'd sleep like a *beep* baby.
The ONLY sociopath is Jeff himself. He was a child rapist. That's it. End of story.
shareDefinitely a sociopath, if not a psychopath. She needed to die herself.
shareI have a hard time seeing how any viewer could be on Jeff's side. Haley may have been such a sweetheart either, but Jeff was a pedophile, no question. Maybe not his fault he had that disease, but his fault he acted on it. I think the fact that Jeff was good-looking and successful and charming made it harder for many to hate him even knowing what he's guilty of. If he'd been an overweight 60-year-old creep glued to his computer, it would'e been easier to hate him. But this is a challenging movie and gets the viewer involved. But many things in the movie are morally ambiguous. I'll admit the movie would've probably been a more challenging experience for me if I were a man.
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