Ridiculous ending


Am I the only one who found the ending to be completely contrived, if not nonsensical. This has nothing to do with the fact that she died, and that it was sad. I have no problem with sad endings, when they MAKE SENSE. The thing I don't understand is WHY she had to die? In what way did it help the narrative, the plot, the story, or the lesson to be drawn from it? Here we have a story about a girl, her dream, and her struggle to live out that dream, despite her horrible family, and all the odds being against her, and as she is about to realize even the tiniest portion of that dream: BLAM, you're paralyzed... Why that? To me it seemed like it came TOTALLY out of left-field. It was like Eastwood had this great movie going, had everything worked out perfectly and suddenly realized that it was getting too long and he needed to end it and that's the first thing he could come up with.

It just didn't make sense in relation to the rest of the story. Now some people will say "well that's life, sometimes *beep* happens." And yeah, that is life, but MDB isn't life, it's movie. Her injury seemed totally useless and left me wondering where in the hell Eastwood pulled that idea from.

Mystic River = Eastwood movie with a SAD, SAD, SAD ending, but one that MADE SENSE. Any thoughts?

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Your starter for ten; why does Frankie insist to Scrap that 'bleach is bleach'?

Or, alternatively:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405159/board/flat/97665425?p=1

Mai Yamane! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD83P-vn5JI&feature=related

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i think you're just mad because this film didnt end like every other feel-good movie of the year. it was twisted and new. This film gave your heart something new to feel and think about. I loved it because it surprised me. It came out of no where and made me rethink the value of life, love and dreams.
But, maybe you can't handle something that cuts that deep.

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yeah...seeing this as a little kid, i had never seen death in particular in a movie yet. this came to me as a shocker and i always thought it was a joke. i was screaming at the television--"WAKE UP HILLARY" Defiantely, this movie is one of few to catch me by surprises.

If you wake up at a different time, in a different place, could you wake up as a different person?

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I have to agree with the OP. The ending seemed contrived, like it was the result of a round table disscussion of depressed people on "what would be the saddest way to end the movie". Cancer and Lou Garig's Disease came in second and third.
The movies first mistake was making her Champ of the World because then they had to do something equally unrealistic to end the story. It was a good movie, it didn't need the sensational highs and lows.
BTW, Hillary Swank is a national treasure

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The OP missed the point of the film & evidently so did you.

Mai Yamane! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD83P-vn5JI&feature=related

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I agree with you. Anyone who thinks this movie's ending was "ridiculous" has absolutely no clue what the movie was about. They should stick to watching CGI action films.

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I felt like the ending glorified what a lot of people may believe, particularly in Hollywood. Once you've seen the bright lights of the big city, "normal" life is just so blase. Better to go out with fame than to live a peon's life as a nobody.

I thought the movie was very well done but went from a 9 or 10 to a 5 or 6 because of the stupid ending.

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Yes because being paralyzed is so normal. :)


If you hate Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!

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Why would you hate Jesus Christ?

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"Once you've seen the bright lights of the big city, 'normal' life is just so blase. Better to go out with fame than to live a peon's life as a nobody" -- scottr-13

Normal? She was f^@%!ng paralyzed from the neck down. They started cutting off her limbs. There's nothing "normal" about this man.

You can see she was willing to deal with it up until they started cutting off her body parts. She couldn't endure it, neither could Frankie -- neither could most people.

Why is this simple idea so hard for people to accept as truth?

Million Dollar Baby Academy Award® Winner for Best Picture of 2004

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When the person was talking about not being normal and her life being something more, he meant how she lived it. How she went from on top of the world and was nothing but normal. Now things have changed. She's sitting in a bed with no point in life anymore, that part is normal.
Sure getting amputation and breathing threw a tube isn't normal but the difference is the non normalcy she was experiencing before was good, breathing through a tube though def not normal is bad.

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"Once you've seen the bright lights of the big city, 'normal' life is just so blase. Better to go out with fame than to live a peon's life as a nobody" -- scottr-13

Normal? She was f^@%!ng paralyzed from the neck down. They started cutting off her limbs. There's nothing "normal" about this man.

You can see she was willing to deal with it up until they started cutting off her body parts. She couldn't endure it, neither could Frankie -- neither could most people.

Why is this simple idea so hard for people to accept as truth?


^^This.

"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit me!"- Hudson in Aliens.

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Actually, I do not think its a cynical as you make it seem. Clint Eastwood himself said that this film is about "the American Dream." The whole premise of the story is that a "worthless" poor girl who had nothing going for her except a dream actually achieved her dream and then some..she became a master of her profession, a star and a legend. The idea that that is so special, and that to be confined to a bed after such an amazing experience is worse than death, is where her the justification for her death comes from. I mean, come on, they even flat out say it in the movie....to live such an amazing experience and then to be laying in a bed, doing nothing, I believe could really make a person think about these things.

And lets be honest, while people will try to make the writers seem cynical..its the people questioning it who are cynical probably..always the ones who have to scream, "this is cliche!" and blah blah blah. The sadness and beauty of what unfolds in this story gets me every time, cuz i know the emotion is real.

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It is not a "bad" or "ridiculous" ending, neither is the movie. But I personnaly thought it was a little bit too depressive, even though it was absolutely beautiful.

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u damn right saennis

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I agree with you. Although it was hard to watch it was different and made you think really hard about the value of life and making the best of it while you can. I loved the ending.

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your most basic error is assuming that the movie was about Maggie.

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What was so sad about it? It was the only way to really end it. She lived her dream. She had to die. I belive she died in the novel too didn't she? And Clint's character got to have that father daughter relationship with someone like he had always wanted but wasn't able to with his own daughter. It wasn't a sad ending at all. Watch it again. The girl got to live out her dream and we like to think that Clint's experience with that girl fulfilled a void in his life and who knows maybe it inspires him to look his daughter up and pay her a visit. I can't imgine a better ending than the one they gave it. I would give my life to have the galls to live out my dream. Who wouldn't.

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couldnt have said it better gregg1620

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I think there was more to the ending than just that. Yes, she was the daughter he didn't have and he loved her more than anything in his life. But when they started cutting off body parts and she begged him to help her die, another major theme emerged. He was Catholic. To do what she wanted was a mortal sin and it was also considered murder in the eyes of the law. I don't think the law bothered him, but the mortal sin did. And he loved her so much and he didn't want to lose her. He rose above all that society would not and could not do to grant her mercy. He loved her so much he killed her even though it was the hardest thing he had ever done in his life.

I loved this film and I think it is one of the greatest movies ever made, but I still do not have the guts to watch it again. It is just too painful.

Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.

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I think there was more to the ending than just that. Yes, she was the daughter he didn't have and he loved her more than anything in his life. But when they started cutting off body parts and she begged him to help her die, another major theme emerged. He was Catholic. To do what she wanted was a mortal sin and it was also considered murder in the eyes of the law. I don't think the law bothered him, but the mortal sin did. And he loved her so much and he didn't want to lose her. He rose above all that society would not and could not do to grant her mercy. He loved her so much he killed her even though it was the hardest thing he had ever done in his life.

I loved this film and I think it is one of the greatest movies ever made, but I still do not have the guts to watch it again. It is just too painful.


Agreed and great post, I know what you mean, many of my friends can't watch this or the endings of Blood Diamond, Man on Fire & The Professional, the endings are so heartwrenching.

"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit me!"- Hudson in Aliens.

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What is going on with the ending of Blood Diamond?? I thought it was a quiet happy ending actually. Of course not the proper definition of "happy ending" but it did end pretty good for Solomon. Of course the general atmosphere of the movie is sad, but it has its ups and I felt like the ending was part of it.

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Very good point, one apparently overlooked by many.

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I have to agree that the ending was contrived. Also Maggie would not have lost the fight. Billie would have been disqualified. I liked this movie when I first saw it but after repeated viewings it does not hold up very well. It is a very good movie but not a great movie. The performances were spectacular but the story was predictable and stereotypical.

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I agree with the OP. This movie did have a ridiculous ending. It went for shock value. It was also inconsistent with the whole theme of a fighter having heart. If she had been a true fighter, she would've at least tried to cope with her new physical limitations. Instead, she gave up almost immediately.

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How did she give up? You stupid or something? All she did was fight. All her life she was told "You will never be a fighter" and Clint's Character kept telling her he wont train her but she never stopped going for him and he gave in. She lived her dream. She did what she set out to do. In the end she could be proud of herself for accomplishing what she set out to do. why should she fight any longer. People die that way every day. They get court orders to let them do it but they do it.

when you accomplish what you set out to do with your life you will be ready to go. because there will be nothing left to accomplish. Guys learn the story when you watch a movie don't just watch it. you people are just dumb.

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"When you accomplish what you set out to do with your life you will be ready to go. because there will be nothing left to accomplish."

Well, gregg1620, it's clear that you won't live to be a senior citizen with that attitude. Can you name any professional athlete who has ever committed suicide because they would never hear the roar of the crowd after retiring? Let's see. Did Michael Jordan do that? Did Joe Montana?

The point is that you don't give up on life because you've achieved your ultimate goal. Life can still be rewarding from that point onward. I'm sure that President Bush's ultimate goal in life was to become President of the United States. If we use your reasoning, then he has nothing more to live for when his term ends this year.

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[deleted]

First of all, I didn't "assail the film because of one character's action".I criticized both main characters Maggie and Frankie.

Secondly, if you read my posts, then you would notice that I did talk about the elements of the film. I referred to the theme of the movie as well as the character development. The theme of the movie was that a true fighter has heart and doesn't give up. The ending of the movie was contrary to that theme. Character development established Maggie and Frankie has having unwavering determination against all odds. No one ever expected her to become a successful boxer but she and Frankie still fought against the odds. However, when she and Frankie faced adversity at the end of the movie, they gave up.

Regardless of my personal beliefs, this movie broke some fundamental rules of writing. If a movie contradicts it's theme and character development, then it's a bad movie.

Furthermore, the setting of the movie was unrealistic. In the 21st century, assistive technology affords disabled people with numerous life altering products. The writers only mentioned a sip and puff wheelchair, while ignoring a plethora of other possibilities. For example, here's a promotional video for a product that I use every day:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=cp_1xOQz92g

To ignore today's assistive technology is tantamount to a modern-day movie pretending that automobiles don't exist. Why does this matter? Because the conclusion bases its reasoning upon Maggie living in an environment that the movie tagline described as "beyond hope".

Setting is another critical element of writing, and it was seriously flawed in this movie.

Any English professor will tell you that a story that has problems with theme, character development, setting, and conclusion = AWFUL.

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Any English professor will tell you that a story that has problems with theme, character development, setting, and conclusion = AWFUL


Won 4 Oscars. Another 45 wins & 29 nominations. Hailed by various critics and award winning bodies worldwide as one of the best, if not the best, motion pictures of 2004. I guess you have a different notion of what a good "theme, character development, setting, and conclusion" is.


Ultimo tango a Parigi*****
http://strawberryfieldsforever.wordpress.com/

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"I guess you have a different notion of what a good "theme, character development, setting, and conclusion" is."

Not necessarily, hammed. If someone was unaware that many assistive technology products existed today, then they could easily view Maggie's situation as "beyond hope (movie tagline)" and consequently consider this as a good movie. I'm sure that many, if not most of, the critics and the awards voters don't have a good understanding of today's assistive technology. In other words, this movie got away with its flaws because of the viewers' lack of knowledge.

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Wow...you're so stupid. You actually think a theory that outlandish and desperate is the reason it was universally hailed as a masterpiece? Please just leave.

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Unless you are a doctor who has dealt with this kind of spinal injury you're not that advance on the "options" no offense.
They said in the movie, though brief, that it was a terrible terrible spinal injury so bad she couldn't even breath on her own.
The idea that certain innovations could help are slim to none.

I also don't think the viewers or critics looked these options over AT ALL.
I think they just weren't important. It didn't matter if there were things that COULD help or MIGHT help. It didn't matter that there was POSSIBILITIES of bettering the situation, what mattered was the current moment and how she was losing a fight and didn't want to go on.
She didn't care about possibilities, she lived the life she wanted and was okay with saying goodbye.

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The theme of the movie was that a true fighter has heart and doesn't give up. The ending of the movie was contrary to that theme.
That wasn't the theme of the film.
Any English professor will tell you that a story that has problems with theme, character development, setting, and conclusion = AWFUL.
None of which applies to Million Dollar Baby.

Mai Yamane! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD83P-vn5JI&feature=related

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I wouldn't expect a Patriots fan to understand a movie. See if someone you know could explain the film to you frame by frame

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"I wouldn't expect a Patriots fan to understand a movie. See if someone you know could explain the film to you frame by frame."

That's pretty funny, gregg1620. I'm sensing some jealousy. Maybe you're a last-place Dolphins fan?

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read hammed's post over and over again. if you want to go simply by what any english professor has to say, then maybe you should go to school and listen to these teachers, these same teachers who have probably sent numerous scripts for movies or manuscripts for novels to companies over and over again, only to get rejected. thats why they are teaching and not making movies. check out what tarantino said at the cannes film festival a couple weeks ago, he was giving a lecture and he advised young aspiring film makers not to waste money on film school, but take the money you would be spending and use it to fund a movie. making movies comes from the heart and from vision, not from guidelines set down by stale old english professors who read a few "idiots guide to screenwriting" or "idiots guide to teaching screenwriting" books.

if you believe a movie must follow these so called "fundamental rules of writing" that you mention, then i feel bad for you because there are no rules, absolutely zero, for art. writing, acting and directing are all art, right there with painting, sculpting, drawing and singing. art can be in many different forms, and there are no rules to go by.

i respect you very much for choosing to live your life using the technology we have to help disabled people live normal, comfortable lives, but that gives you no right to judge other disabled people ( though maggie is fictional). boxing was her life and her motivation, and without that she did not want to live.

ok i just realized i am arguing with people online and that i can find something else better to do. but you should have a more open mind, dont let the "rules of writing" dictate your movie watching.

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Well, pepperj126, the rules that I mentioned have to do with consistency. A movie doesn't make sense if the writer contradicts himself/herself throughout the movie. If you establish a theme of never giving up, and then contradict that theme -it doesn't make sense. Let me give you an example. One of the themes of this movie was Frankie's love for Maggie. How would you have felt if Frankie abandoned Maggie and never visited her in the hospital or spoke to her again after the injury? It wouldn't make sense, because those actions wouldn't be consistent with the theme already established. Likewise, when Maggie becomes paralyzed and kills herself within three or four months, that's not consistent with the theme established of never giving up. She really didn't try to persevere. Committing suicide so quickly doesn't make sense for the character of Maggie who was depicted as having unrelenting determination..


"but that gives you no right to judge other disabled people"

Maybe you didn't read my previous posts closely. I did NOT judge her decision to commit suicide, I merely stated that making a hasty decision is NOT CONSISTENT with the characterization throughout the movie of Maggie as a fighter. PLEASE DON'T PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. If someone decides to commit suicide, that's their right. I was criticizing the inconsistency of the character; not whether disabled people should commit suicide. There is a big difference between criticizing the writing style of a movie and the political issue of suicide.

"boxing was her life and her motivation, and without that she did not want to live"

Are you a sports fan? Because if you are, then you're aware that every athlete eventually has to retire. You say that without boxing, she did not want to live. But that doesn't make sense. Because at the age of 31, she was nearing retirement anyways. Boxers usually retire in their mid-30s. Have you ever heard of an athlete wanting to die because they had to retire? I haven't. Everyone knows retirement is inevitable. That's why the ending just doesn't make sense. If she didn't want to live without boxing, as you claim, then she would have committed suiside upon retirement even if the accident never occurred.

Now, some have said that the reason she committed suicide was NOT because she couldn't live without boxing. It was because she wasn't satisfied with her quality of life. The fact that you and others disagree on why she committed suicide reflects how badly Eastwood and the writers scripted the ending. They were very unclear as to why Maggie committed suicide. It would've been very simple for her to say: "I don't want to live anymore because I'm unhappy with my quality of life". But the writers didn't do that. She mentions missing the roar of the crowd, but as I stated above, that would have happened anyways when she retired in a few years. The viewers are left wondering whether her quality of life was the main impetus behind her suicide. Once again, an example of bad writing.

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one problem i definitely have with your theories on "movie and writing rules" just became clear to me when you said, and ill make sure to copy and paste so this is accurate so as to not offend you:


"It wouldn't make sense, because those actions wouldn't be consistent with the theme already established."

i totally understand what you are saying, but if the theme were to completely stay the same, like it unfortunately does in so many bad movies that come out now in days, then you are removing something vital from a movie that is being driven by the characters like this one-the human element. i would be damned if humans always react according to plan and based on their past behaviors. what would the sense be in ending any movie, in having any film be longer than 35 or 40 minutes, in even needing the 3rd act of a movie, if the characters are just going to what we should expect them to? humans never can know how they are going to react to a given circumstance.

i don't think any one person is going to react to a stressful situation the exact same way that another person will. now obviously if your sample size is 5000 people then yea multiple people will react the same because the amount of reactions is definitely limited, but there will in fact be multiple reactions.

p.s. i'm thankful to finally have an intelligent and educated person to debate with on here

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But see you are following rules again. You have this idea that themes can't contradict themselves but I think the best movies do just that. People and life contradict themselves all the time. People who were weak become strong and people who were always strong can be weak.
The best movies to portray a sense of reality and the fact that the "theme didn't follow through" just sounds like the everyday world to me.
Plus to you and others it might have seemed like it wasn't following through to me it felt like everything else she had done. Maggie fought when she knew she had the ability to do so (physically) but at the end she didn't have that power and she knew it. She didn't want a life where she couldn't fight back and come out on top.
To mee it seems like the same old person.
I've really got to stop writing back to these im sure its been months sense this whole topic took place.
BYE!

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if you want to go simply by what any english professor has to say, then maybe you should go to school and listen to these teachers, these same teachers who have probably sent numerous scripts for movies or manuscripts for novels to companies over and over again, only to get rejected.


LMAO. Those who can't do...

Million Dollar Baby Academy Award® Winner for Best Picture of 2004

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I sort of kinda love everything you wrote in that paragraph and wanted to say praise the lord someone said something that didn't sound like complete *beep*

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I don't know how you conclude that the main theme of Million Dollar Baby is "that a true fighter has heart and doesn't give up." That theme just describes a certain section of the movie. I would classify Rocky as a movie that has the theme that you described.

MDB had a multlayered theme. A story doesn't need to have one central theme. It is dangerous for writers to tamper with this unusual format, but if it is done seamlessly and doesn't leave plot anomalies or the reader hanging, then by all means pursue it. It's different but by no means does it constituite bad writing.

The main theme I understood to be intertwined in the movie is a delicate question. If after searching arduously through life for meaning you finally find self fulfillment, at what price would you be willing to lose it all?

Maggie after pursuing her dream of being someone of note and forging the father-daughter relationship that she longed for decided that her now meaningless life paled into comparision. The dignity that she tried her entire life to establish was on the line and this far outweighed her will to live. She had no natural affection from her family, no spouse, no friends apart from Frankie, and her physical prowess from which she based her self-esteem was now non-existent.

Frank after finally getting a talented boxer (despite being slightly unconventional) who was willing to stick by him, who saw him as a role model father, decided to perform a selfless act and comply with her euthanasic beliefs.

Although people focus on the saddness of the ending, when you think about the result, all characters in the movie got what they yearned for in life albeit for only a short period of time.

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The theme of the movie was that a true fighter has heart and doesn't give up. The ending of the movie was contrary to that theme.


That's what you got. I thought the theme was, "In life, being tough isn't enough"? That's what I thought and will continue to think.

Million Dollar Baby Academy Award® Winner for Best Picture of 2004

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In one of your previous posts, you said that Maggie's "true character" was revealed when she lost her leg. You implied that she was NOT tough.

"I thought the theme was, "In life, being tough isn't enough"? "

If you believe that she was not tough, then your statement above makes no sense. And what exactly is that adage supposed to mean anyways. In life, what is needed in addition to toughness? Maggie had the support of close friends like Frankie, so what else did she need in your opinion?

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Close friends? All she really had was Frankie and Scrap. You make it sound as if she has an entourage.

"I thought the theme was, "In life, being tough isn't enough"?" -- PatriotsRchamps

That's what I took from it. And it does make sense. She wasn't tough enough to continue on in her state. That's the point I was making. Its just a theme. The character will either live up to it or not. It most great films, we see this. And Frankie, on the other hand, had to be tough enough for the both of them to help her the way he did in the end. So, you see, it makes perfect sense.

Million Dollar Baby Academy Award® Winner for Best Picture of 2004

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Rules are *beep*
I won't say anything further than that but I don't think creativity has a guideline.
Second yeah there are other technological opportunities but those take time, money and patience to acquire. SHE was losing parts of her body every day, something that through the entire movie was her one source of power and motivation.

Life isn't sunshine and daisy's all the time. Sure you can say but there was this option and this option but things don't come that easy. As a daughter of a soldier who has lost a limb in battle I can honestly say from experience that Maggie was not thinking strangely. She couldn't even move her own body. My father lost an arm (the rest of him still in tact) and felt like something that always brought so much power to him(he was a body builder before joining the force) was taken away. Imagine how Maggie felt, her whole body didn't work.
As for the technological option that took planing and time and a certain will to go on that she just didn't have. Plus I can also say that certain "advances" are very very expensive.

Lastly I don't think this was out of her character at all. She was a fighter because she knew she could, she knew she could fight back and she knew she was in control of her destiny. When she was having limbs taken away and breathing through a tube she knew she was losing the fight and could not let that happen. Its not that she didn't have the mental ability to continue it's that the physical fight was gone and there was nothing she could do about it. She didn't want to let them take anymore away from her than they already had and knew she was happy with what she did and who she was as of now. She wanted to leave this world being a winner and a fighter not slowly losing it to something that was beyond her own control.

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You missed the point of the ending...

The whole movie they are fighting against the odds, and overcome the difficulties on the path towards their mutual goal.. In the end it becomes impossible, not 1 in a million, 0 in a million, to realize their dreams and their ambitions. Frankie did not give up until he had done everything within his power. They both realize it isn't a matter of giving up or not, it is her living with the hand she is dealt or not, she and he can't influence it in any way.

She chose not to, not because she couldn't get help to live the life of a cripple, but because her lifes purpose was gone.

Contradiction of itself? No, it took a turn to remind the viewer that we are human.

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"Can you name any professional athlete who has ever committed suicide because they would never hear the roar of the crowd after retiring?" -- PatriotsRchampsguy

You have no argument, do you? She didn't retire due to old age. Her career was cut short because of pure evil. Michael Jordan and Joe Montana are not paralyzed from the neck down.

Million Dollar Baby Academy Award® Winner for Best Picture of 2004

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You didn't answer the question, TheQuietStorm. Can you name an athlete who became paralyzed and committed suicide shortly thereafter? The fact of the matter is that there have been professional athletes who have become paralyzed but none of them committed suicide immediately following the injury like Maggie did.

Furthermore, if you're looking for someone whose career was ended by "pure evil" as you say, then I suggest that you read the autobiography of Patriots NFL star receiver Darryl Stingley who was paralyzed by a cheap shot committed by Jack Tatum. Stingley's inspirational book was entitled "Happy to Be Alive" and discusses his life as a quadriplegic. Conversely, Jack Tatum wrote a book entitled "They Call Me Assassin" in which he shows no remorse for injuring Stingley and brags that he always tried to injure opposing players.

BTW. I wouldn't put Maggie in the same sentence as Michael Jordan or Joe Montana. She entered professional boxing in her early 30s. Most boxers careers are over by the time they turn 35. So even if she hadn't been injured, her career wouldn't have been long enough to be considered one of the greatest.

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The fact of the matter is that there have been professional athletes who have become paralyzed but none of them committed suicide immediately following the injury like Maggie did.

The actual passage of time is unclear. It was at least 2 months before she was stable enough to be moved from the hospital in Las Vegas. And it seemed like she was in the Rehab center for a while. Long enough to develop bed sores bad enough that her leg had to be removed.

So it appears that it was months, if not more than a year before Maggie was depressed enough to want to die.

And not only was Maggie depressed about her injury and the amputation, but she was likely also reeling from finally acknowledging that her mother was a greedy, lazy b*tch whose love and respect, or even pity, she would never earn. Yes, Maggie was tough. But a lot of drive came out of a desire to earn her mother's love. So not only had she lost the thing that gave her purpose, but also the reason for that purpose.

Sure, given time and therapy, a real life Maggie may have gotten beyond her suicidal state. But this is fiction and the movie had to end somewhere.

Can you name an athlete who became paralyzed and committed suicide shortly thereafter?

Depression after serious injury is common. Suicide may not be as "common" but it's not a one in a million thing either.

"Not being able to play, train, practise or compete can come as a huge blow to an athlete, often producing anger at the unfairness of being sidelined with injury, especially if they believe they weren’t to blame (eg, an illegal tackle on the football field or being hit by a drunk driver en routehome).....A second common reaction to the athlete’s sense of loss is depression. Again, the psychologist’s priority is to assess risk. The main risk is of suicide, but there is also risk of self-injury or neglect. As with the angry athlete, the psychologist will usually work to normalise the experience of depression that arises from losing something very important.

http://www.sportsinjurybulletin.com/archive/coping-with-sports-injurie s-II


"Depression - Fairly self explanatory, the person is so sad that this has happened that they think "That's it... I'm done". Quitting is very easy at this point because they've never been in this situation before. Their life may have been the sport they were playing when injured, and now without that sport, they don't know what to do and how to live. As I said, many people take months or even years to get past this stage. After a spinal injury, many people cannot live independently and a once independent adult must now depend on friends and family to perform daily tasks. Anti-depressants and suicide can seem like viable options when in these situations."

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/strongman14.htm


"Some athletes, especially those with longer recovery periods, may stay depressed for months. And in rare instances, injured athletes have attempted or committed suicide."


http://www.nytimes.com/2000/09/26/science/26SPOR.html?pagewanted=all


Oh, and as for athletes who have committed suicide after injury. Some have and some have for other reasons and some we'll never know. I'll leave it to you to take the time to learn which is which:

-http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/sports/enke-is-latest-in-long-list -of-athletes-who-committed-suicide_100273174.html

-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sportspeople_who_committed_suici de



“If they let Jack do it his way the show would be just 12” – snorgtees.com

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"The actual passage of time is unclear. It was at least 2 months before she was stable enough to be moved from the hospital in Las Vegas. And it seemed like she was in the Rehab center for a while. Long enough to develop bed sores bad enough that her leg had to be removed.

So it appears that it was months, if not more than a year before Maggie was depressed enough to want to die."

Although it's true that the passage of time isn't clearly defined in words, there are shots of the foliage outside the hospital that indicate that Maggie arrived from Las Vegas in the summer and died when there was no foliage on the trees. Also, Clint Eastwood's character is wearing a light jacket when she dies, which means that it was not very cold outside (so it probably was not winter). This would put the elapsed time at somewhere around six months.

BTW. A bedsore can develop in a matter of days and if it becomes infected can result in amputation within a matter of weeks.

"And not only was Maggie depressed about her injury and the amputation, but she was likely also reeling from finally acknowledging that her mother was a greedy, lazy b*tch whose love and respect, or even pity, she would never earn. Yes, Maggie was tough. But a lot of drive came out of a desire to earn her mother's love. So not only had she lost the thing that gave her purpose, but also the reason for that purpose."

I thought that from the very beginning of the movie, it was clear that Maggie knew exactly what kind of person her mother was. And the hospital visit incident merely reminded her of what she already knew. I didn't get the impression that she was trying to earn her mother's love. In fact, I thought that Maggie's drive came from trying to prove that she could become a success in life despite her mother's low opinion of her. Even after the injury, she still could've gone on to lead a successful life (e.g. Christopher Reeves and his fundraising efforts).

"Sure, given time and therapy, a real life Maggie may have gotten beyond her suicidal state. But this is fiction and the movie had to end somewhere."

Herein lies my biggest problem with this movie. It does not reflect "real life". If someone tried to commit suicide by swallowing her tongue like Maggie, she would have received MANDATORY COUNSELING for at least 30 days. And most likely would've received considerable follow-up counseling which would have included discussion of the latest assistive technology devices. As a severely disabled person, I can attest from personal experience that assistive technology significantly expands one's abilities and often strengthens a disabled person"s will to live.

This movie made no mention of the psychiatric support system that's in place, and it only gave a passing reference to assistive technology.

I agree with you that suicide is a possibility for any person facing a lifetime of quadriplegia. However, as you yourself pointed out, "in RARE instances, injured athletes have attempted or committed suicide." This movie went to great lengths to give the viewer the misguided impression that suicide was the logical conclusion to the life of a paralyzed professional athlete.

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Although it's true that the passage of time isn't clearly defined in words, there are shots of the foliage outside the hospital that indicate that Maggie arrived from Las Vegas in the summer and died when there was no foliage on the trees.
The presence of foliage could indicate mid to late spring as well as summer, even early spring if the winter was mild enough. Same thing on the other end. Late fall or early winter.
Also, Clint Eastwood's character is wearing a light jacket when she dies, which means that it was not very cold outside (so it probably was not winter).

A light jacket would indicate that it’s not very cold outside or that they were in a place where the weather doesn’t change much from season to season.
They're in a location where there is a major theme park, since that is apparently where Maggie's family spent 6 days before coming to visit her. I forget whether Clint said Disney World or Disney land or even Universal Studios. But given that it was only a 6 hour ambulance drive from Vegas, I'm going to assume the rehab center was in California rather than Florida which would have been a longer drive. So why would he not wear a light jacket in winter? I hear California weather is mild year round.
This would put the elapsed time at somewhere around six months.

Fair enough. Six months is still not "immediately", which was the word you previously used.
BTW. A bedsore can develop in a matter of days and if it becomes infected can result in amputation within a matter of weeks.

Yes, I'm aware of this. But in the movie, there was a point where Freeman's voice over specifically mentioned she developed bedsores and the film showed them. The next few scenes were of other events. Then they showed the scene where the doctor mentioned that she may need to lose her leg. I assumed this was meant to indicate the passage of time. Perhaps even an amount of time to indicate that antibiotics were no longer working to treat the bed sores.
I thought that from the very beginning of the movie, it was clear that Maggie knew exactly what kind of person her mother was.

Which is why I specifically used the word "acknowledged". Knowing something and fully acknowledging it to oneself are not the same thing, especially when it comes to feelings and the people care about, notably parents.
I didn't get the impression that she was trying to earn her mother's love.

Then why would she live in a dump and save all her money to buy a house she herself would never live in? Why let her mother go on and on about the welfare and then at the end force the keys in her hand anyway? It's not like her mother was living on the street and needed a roof over her head.
If, in that exchange, you couldn’t see Maggie was seeking some sort of acknowledgement and approval from her mother, then I can’t explain it to you.
Herein lies my biggest problem with this movie. It does not reflect "real life".

Fair enough. But often it’s the goal of entertainment (film, tv, fictional literature and even some video games) to appear realistic. Realistic enough so that viewer can identify with the characters and situations not reflect actual real life.

The movie was not about coming back serious injury. So there was no point for it to show the services and technologies available to the disabled. Just as someone else previously pointed out, it didn't show Maggie dating or shopping or doing the many other things that people do in "real life."
However, as you yourself pointed out, "in RARE instances, injured athletes have attempted or committed suicide."

Let’s be clear. I never used the word “rare.” What I said was that it may not be common, but it wasn’t a one in a million occurrence either. And only one of the three citations used "rare". And it was the one from the NY Times. The other two were from publications catering to sports injury and/or athletes specifically, neither of which used "rare". Both indicated that it was at least a fairly common thought of those who have been injured.

In any event, I included that specifically in response to your intimation that it would almost never occur.
This movie went to great lengths to give the viewer the misguided impression that suicide was the logical conclusion to the life of a paralyzed professional athlete.

I’m sorry. How did it show suicide as a “logical” conclusion? I think any rational human being recognizes that that suicide is not “logical” choice. And I doubt that many viewers would see Maggie’s choice as one that would be chosen by all or even most people, athlete or not.
This was Maggie’s story. I doubt many see it as being a story representative of athletes in general. For instance, as pointed out earlier, Maggie started training in her 30s. That’s nowhere near the timeline of the vast majority of professional athletes.

“If they let Jack do it his way the show would be just 12” – snorgtees.com

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You really are a rules type of person.
NOT everything is as it seems.
Who cares if he was wearing light jacket or what it looked like
Season are weird everywhere. People wear stuff because they want to.
I mean that just blank reasoning.

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I am sorry for your disability like I said I too have a father who dealt with disability but not every place follows the rules.

Some places don't follow procedures. I mean its a cold world not everyone caries a manual around.

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You can't compare one life to another.
So asking is pointless.
And Im sure if you tried it wouldn't matter. They would be different people.Maggie has no friends, family, hell even the competitors and people at the place she trained didn't socialize with her. The only person she had was Frankie who still was a new friend.

I mean Darryl Stingley had family, friends, and teammates so comparison isn't realistic.

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To say that she would or could get more out of life is just too far fetched.
Sure she could have enjoyed a few talks with her friend and it would have been a blast to internet date you know cus' being paralyzed is a real hot topic with men.
Lol.
Lets be serious though what more could she have gotten out of life. She made a friend, achieved a real family and life her dream. All that would follow would be more amputations painful surgeries uncomfortable breathing through a tube and the rest of your life knowing you can't even wipe your own ass.
She didn't want to go out like that, she was strong and wanted to remain strong. I think Maggie as a character would never want to just sit in bed and have everything done for her, it wasn't the life she wanted and she would never force herself to become equipped to it. She depended oon herself for anything in to be left in a state where she couldn't even breath without help wasn't her idea of a life.

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Lets be serious though what more could she have gotten out of life.

YOU HAVE JUST ENCAPSULATED EXACTLY WHY THIS MOVIE WAS AWFUL. The question you posed above was the precise message of the movie. Such a question is narrow minded and ignorant. People who become paralyzed can go on to lead productive and fulfilling lives. A paralyzed person's life is comprised of more than just medical problems/complications.

This movie had the opportunity to educate viewers, but instead it promoted the old misperception that once a person becomes paralyzed, there is nothing more to be "gotten out of life". The real tragedy in this movie was not its ending; the real tragedy was that the writers chose to promote ignorance.

All that would follow would be more amputations painful surgeries uncomfortable breathing through a tube and the rest of your life knowing you can't even wipe your own ass.

What do you mean "all that would follow would be more amputations…"? Apparently, you don't know much about American history and people who have become paralyzed and gone on to contribute significantly to society. Below are examples of disabled people who are well known for their productive lives following paralysis. THESE PEOPLE MADE A DIFFERENCE IN THE LIVES OF OTHERS. And that's what the character of Maggie had an opportunity to likewise do.

Stephen Hawking - physicist and cosmologist who has made noteworthy scientific contributions for decades since becoming paralyzed and has inspired both disabled and nondisabled people around the world

Ed Roberts - after becoming paralyzed, he became the founder of the Independent Living Movement and proponent of numerous laws providing rights to the disabled

Christopher Reeve - actor who raised millions of dollars for scientific research after becoming paralyzed

James Troesh - after becoming paralyzed as a teenager, he went on to become an actor best known for his role on Highway to Heaven. He acted for decades entertaining millions of viewers and inspiring other disabled Americans across the country.

Darrell Stingley - former New England Patriots wide receiver who was paralyzed during a game but went on to write a book that inspired other disabled Americans. He also founded and managed a nonprofit organization for troubled youth in West Chicago for decades.

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Hell, but Michael Jordan and Joe Montana aren't fvckin paralyzed from the neck down.

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I disagree completely with the original post and those who agreed with them. Sometimes, you cannot have nice little bowties on the end of everything. This is not Rocky defeating Ivan Drago and singlehandedly bringing communism and democracy together; this is deliberate tragedy in which something terrible happens to someone we've rooted for and even love. It is neither contrived nor stupid. It is done with a purpose.

Like anyone else with an ounce of human compassion, I wished the Hillary Swank character had lived. I spent 3 hours watching a character for whom I invested much emotion for and respected tremendously for her drive, compassion and goodness. Yet I still appreciated the ending and Eastwood's message; life isn't fair.

And to suggest she "somehow wasn't a true fighter" because she "didn't cope to one's satisfaction with paralysis" is as big a cheap shot one can take.

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"And to suggest she "somehow wasn't a true fighter" because she "didn't cope to one's satisfaction with paralysis" is as big a cheap shot one can take."

If you're going to use quotation marks around my comments, please be accurate. What I said was, "If she had been a true fighter, she would've at least tried to cope her new physical limitations. Instead, she gave up almost immediately." Lets look at some examples of people who were considered to be true fighters prior to facing a medical affliction. College basketball coach Jim Valvano was diagnosed with cancer and he reacted by seeking treatment and becoming a motivational speaker with the motto "Never give up!"

Pro football player Darryl Stingley was paralyzed during a football game. He went on to write a book entitled "Happy to be Alive" and establish an inner-city youth charity foundation.

Pro basketball player Magic Johnson was diagnosed with HIV. When asked how he felt about contracting HIV, he responded: "I see it as a challenge. I'm going to come out swinging because that's the way I've always been." You see, ramsfan, his response was consistent with the way he'd always been (which was a fighter).

By contrast, Maggie responded by not examining her options. She didn't ask other quadriplegics for advice and she didn't look into assistive technology products (which I can tell you from firsthand experience, greatly enhance a disabled person's quality-of-life). I didn't criticize Maggie's decision to commit suicide. I criticized the haste with which she made that decision. She chose not to gather information about her affliction and consequently, she made an uninformed decision.

Check out this song entitled "I'm a Fighter" performed by a man who became a quadriplegic after a car accident. He works with Easter Seals, writes inspirational poetry, and visits schoolchildren and explains what it's like to be disabled. He is, indeed, a fighter.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=r_iireUPFpI

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Boxing is all this girl knew and loved by her own admission. By being paralyzed, her whole existence and purpose in life was being taken from her. Facing this realization was the most crushing blow possible. In my opinion, choosing death in no way diminishes her character or spirit.

Yes, you give good examples of others who have fought adversity tooth and nail. I certainly respect your view (and as a sports fan like all three of these guys) but not everyone has the same make-up. There are many tough people who would nonetheless not wish to be a vegetable for the rest of their lives. It is very easy for us to sit in judgment of someone else's life altering situation.

And regarding the original title of this thread, I simply disagree that it was a "contrived" or "stupid" ending for the reasons I stated earlier. An outstanding movie.

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Even more so gregg1620 ...

" If she had been a true fighter, she would've at least tried to cope with her new physical limitations. Instead, she gave up almost immediately." -- PatriotsRchamps

She didn't give up immediately. It started when they took her leg. And her character changed from being a fighter to being a victim of her circumstances once she got hurt. Her true character was revealed. We saw that she was vulnerable to pessimism like everyone else, contrary to the optimistic dreamer we saw up until the injury. That was her moment of truth.

Why are so many people missing the point? I thought it was pretty obvious to me.

Million Dollar Baby Academy Award® Winner for Best Picture of 2004

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"Also Maggie would not have lost the fight. Billie would have been disqualified." -- WolfyLarsen

What makes you think she wasn't disqualified after the incident? I mean, the fight couldn't continue regardless.

And what is so contrived about it? You say contrived but never explain exactly what you mean. Contrived is a Tyler Perry film.

And stereotypical? Are you serious?

Million Dollar Baby Academy Award® Winner for Best Picture of 2004

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I nicely disagree lol.
She learned while fighting to protect herself and her body. Her boxing gave her that ability.
Sure she was a fighter when she had the ability to fight.
But how was she supposed to fight later when she couldn't even life a finger or breath on her own.
I think in Maggie's eyes her body, had been taken away from her and with that her ability to fight back.
SO she wanted to die. She didn't have the power to beat her physical ailments and she knew it so she ended it before they could take all of her.
We can all pretend that she could have mental bettered herself and dealt with it, but the fact that she still wouldn't be able to move and would be sitting in a bed her entire life would never change, I think they showed that by things such as her legs getting sores and her need for amputation. Hell her own mother shoved a pen in her mouth to sign something. This strong beautiful talented women went from being a fighter who could depend on herself to having to sign her name with her teeth.

She could have moved on, but she chose to die and remember the her that was strong and in control.

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I honestly do not understand how anyone could not get this movie. I thought the message was pretty forward and it's pretty obvious why she died in the end...

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"it's pretty obvious why she died in the end.."

Hmmm. Well, moviebuff_1, why don't you enlighten everyone about why she died?

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Hmmm. Well, moviebuff_1, why don't you enlighten everyone about why she died?


I thought this was hammered home rather well in the film, but to recap:

1) She felt her opportunities outside of boxing were limited. Her white trash roots were "just over the hill" as Scrap put it.
2) The implication of the realities of her state within the film indicated a future consisting of rotting away piece by piece through gangrene. (I don't think the movie did our med tech justice, but it was the book and script chose to present her state and her foreseeable future.)
3) She was of an upbringing which smiled upon mercy killing as a kindness when the subject in question couldn't happily "live" any more.
4) Her dedication to her family would have seen her yet again sucked into their mire were she to choose to carry on without the benefit of constant boxing income.
5) Her dream had died. No matter what she ended up doing, she wouldn't be boxing anymore, and it was stated early on that it was the "one thing that made her feel good when she did it"... and the one thing she had worked and slaved for up to that point.

All in all, they sort of beat one over the head with the character's reasons for not carrying on the fight, as well as Eastwood's action toward the end.

All in all, I could see an objection on moral grounds for her not carrying on, but that's assigning one's own values and letting them override those of the author. I could see taking issue with the somewhat lax portrayal of med tech, but that suppplants the movie's deliberately chosen fictitious reality with one's own real world knowledge and is a futile action when analyzing fiction in general. The med tech state was what it was to move the story forward in both the original story and the film, and it certainly did that.

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"2) The implication of the realities of her state within the film indicated a future consisting of rotting away piece by piece through gangrene. (I don't think the movie did our med tech justice, but it was the book and script chose to present her state and her foreseeable future.)"

The writers counted on the ignorance of the general viewer regarding cellulitis/infection/amputation. A previous poster used the same exact description as you did when you wrote "rotting away". This perception may be popular among the general public but it's not accurate.

My Great Aunt was a quadriplegic for 35 years and three of my relatives are paraplegics. I myself am severely disabled and have experienced a situation where the doctor said he might have to amputate. Luckily, antibiotics were successful in treating the infection. The bottom line is that the bedsores that Maggie had are always a threat to someone whose bedridden. HOWEVER, ALTHOUGH AMPUTATION IS ALWAYS A POSSIBILITY, IT IS NOT A CERTAINTY AS THE MOVIE IMPLIED.

Think about all the disabled famous celebrities that you've heard of. How many of them had an amputation?

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The ending wasn't there to "help the narrative." The movie is ABOUT the ending. And yes, sometimes *beep* happens, and that's life, and some movies are about life, as opposed to those that are about car crashes or explosions or Adam Sandler making his girlfriends laugh or Robin Williams impersonating a woman. If the ending were arbitrary, then it would have sunk the film, but it's not. Here we have a strong, determined woman who dragged herself out of a dead-end life to achieve heights of athletic fame and accomplishments. As is so often the case in life (as opposed to 50 First Dates or Mrs. Doubtfire) much of our fates are left to chance, and in a single, random, fateful moment, all that she had built for herself was taken away. Now she's left in a position where her pride and integrity are compromised, because she was once a great fighter and she is now a vegetable who feels she no longer has a reason to live, and so she turns for help to the manager with whom she had her most intimate relationship. In other words, people who are in the position of begging for a mercy killing have lives that preceded their predicament, and Million Dollar Baby lets us experience that. That's what the film is about. Of course, those who think that movies are not life, "just movies" (whatever that means) may have a hard time grasping this. It also requires some mental dexterity not possessed by those whose perpective is purely linear.

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On the first viewing, my thought was that her spinal injury came as the result of being blind-sided by her opponent, who was known to be a dirty fighter, and, Maggie fell backwards with the blind punch, struck the stool with the back of her neck, breaking it...

Had her head hit the stool, then, she would have been realtively fine, but, most spinal cord injuries happen when the entire weight of the body is placed on the neck in such a way that the fracture takes place (any medical person here can please feel to correct me)...

Christopher Reeve was one example - his horse stopped suddenly, causing him, as we say in bicycling, "to do a header", and, he landed squarely on the top of his head, causing all of his 200 or more pounds to transfer to his neck - that does not include the velocity of the fall, so, 200 was probably more like 350 or 400...

One of my best friends and fellow riding partner was paralzyed when the front wheel of his bicycle struck a parking block, also causing him to do a header, and, the resulting spinal injury was very similar...

The neck is a weak link, so to speak, and, is why various sports now use helmets that include a neck-brace type device, since too many were paralyzed from neck injuries in similar accidents...

So, I don't agree that it was just an event made up to hurry the film's ending, however, I disagree (as do millions around the world) in how Maggie's life ended by assisted suicide - as someone who's lost 3 friends in the past 10 years to suicide, I'll say it was wrong for Maggie to die that way...

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While I do not want to make a political thread out of this topic, I think it is one's personal choice in the matter of quality of life. Living Wills allow for the removal of life-support in all 50 states. We put animals to sleep in the name of humane treatment. Yet we routinely allow old people to suffer from various maladies knowing full well they will never get better, only worse. Why would someone denigrate or demean someone choosing to die when they are a quadriplegic or when there is no quality of life? Speaking for myself, and being an active person in an athletic profession, I would not want to live. This is hardly the same thing as an otherwise healthy individual committing suicide- apples and oranges.

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"I think it is one's personal choice in the matter of quality of life."

I agree with you on that point, ramsfan. And since quality of life was such a central part of the movie's conclusion, the writers committed an egregious error by not accurately depicting the quality of life that a quadriplegic in the 21st century actually has. My Great Aunt was a quadriplegic for over 30 years. In the 50s, 60s, 70s, and 80s, quadriplegics like her didn't have assistive technology products. That's the environment that the writers portray Maggie living in.

Other posters have said that the ending was contrived. I agree with that because in order to portray Maggie as having a miserable quality of life, the writers resorted to misrepresenting what a quadriplegic's quality of life actually is like in the 21st-century.

"Why would someone denigrate or demean someone choosing to die when they are a quadriplegic or when there is no quality of life?"

I'm not sure if your comment is directed at me. I criticized Maggie's hasty and uninformed decision to commit suicide. From what we see in the movie, she didn't give herself time to go through the natural grieving process after a traumatic incident. Nor did she put the effort into investigating as to what quality of life a quadriplegic has in the 21st-century. If someone allows time for themself to calm down emotionally and psychologically, and then makes an informed decision knowing all possible options - then I have no problem with them choosing to die.

"Speaking for myself, and being an active person in an athletic profession, I would not want to live."

I understand why you would feel that way now. You're probably thinking about all the things that you wouldn't be able to do as a quadriplegic. But after awhile as a disabled person, you'd probably come to appreciate the motto: "Think about what you can do, not about what you can't do." I was fortunate to grow up and see how my quadriplegic Great Aunt changed the lives of those around her. Two of her grandchildren went into the field of medicine. One of them became a heart surgeon who performs life-saving surgeries every day. I think that despite her physical limitations she found great satisfaction in knowing that if she had committed suicide shortly after becoming a quadriplegic, then her grandson probably would never have become a surgeon.

BTW. I think that you and dmacewen are using the term "vegetable" incorrectly. The term vegetable is used to refer to patients who are brain-dead. It's not used to describe quadriplegics. I understand what you meant, though.

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PatriotsRchamps-


I have great respect for your Great Aunt and anyone else who must go thru life paralyzed, wheelchair bound or otherwise severely impaired, I really do. It amazes me that people can move forward with their lives given these extreme circumstances. I don't know that I could do the same, and I sure hope to hell I never have to find out. While there undoubtedly have been gains in technology that makes being a quadriplegic different than 20-30 years ago, nothing will return you to the form and complete capabilities you once had. And Maggie's quality of life, given the profession she chose and the lack of many caring people around her (aside from Eastwood and Morgan Freeman) would have undoubtedly been tough after her boxing winnings dried up. You don't need me to tell you how ridiculous medical expenses are today, especially for someone in this condition.

At her core, Maggie was a simple person with an uncomplicated thought process. In my opinion, she would not be the type of person to step back, weigh the circumstances of a situation and make a more informed choice- even in a matter of life and death. Her train of thought was a straight line progression: "Oh, my nose is broken? Put it back in place, I have a boxing match to finish". "I'm paralyzed? It's over. There's no sense in going on if I can't do the one thing I've always wanted to do". I'm not saying that is the best way to think, but I believe it is the way SHE FELT. The quick "resolution" to this problem (the ending of the movie) was in step with her character.

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It seems to me there was a bit of a debate on why she asked frankie to aid her suicide and I just wanted to throw my opionion in here as well.

I may be filling in a bit too much with my own thoughts but I felt that maggie may have really taken a long term look at what her life may have been like 10-20 years down the road. She had been a female boxer who was forever going to be known as the loser of a controversial decision in a welter-weight devision title fight. To be honest this is the type of athlete that history quickly forgets. She may have been able to persevere through and go on to become a motivational speaker or something to that degree but the thing I find with people who do go down that road is that they have many people around them giving them support.

Maggie on the other hand had no family and the only real friends she had were two elderly men who may not have had much time left for their own lives. After the deaths of both frankie and scrap she would be left with nobody with whom she shared a connection from before her injury. Sure she may meet people through her expieriences as whatever it is she decided to do with her life but they would not know her as the person she was when she felt she was great.

Her choice to ask frankie to help her may have been motivated by the fact that he would be the only person she would ever know that would be able to empathize with what she had lost and after his own eventual passing she would be left alone. Eventually I could see her lonliness and limitations totally drowning out her memories of the happiness she once had in her life.

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"Eventually I could see her lonliness and limitations totally drowning out her memories of the happiness she once had in her life."

Well, Kyle_MacLeod 51, I think that the operative word there is "eventually". Her decision to commit assisted suicide was premature. Even though Frankie was a senior citizen nearing the end of his life, she may have been able to enjoy his company for years until his death. It seems very illogical for Maggie to deprive herself of positive moments that she could have shared with Frankie. That's why it's my opinion that her decision was an emotional one rather than a rational one.

Speaking from personal experience, it took me years to make the transition from an able-bodied athletic person to a disabled person with many of the limitations of a quadriplegic. Eventually, I found ways to become a productive member of society and lead a somewhat fulfilling life. There is no reason why Maggie couldn't at least have tried to see what life is like for a severely disabled person living in today's world of amazing assistive technology products. For those of you interested in seeing videos of these products, you can check out the Massachusetts Assistive Technology (AT) Program YouTube channel:

http://www.youtube.com/user/MassMatchATvideos

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as someone who's lost 3 friends in the past 10 years to suicide, I'll say it was wrong for Maggie to die that way...


I hope that if I am ever put into a similiar situation that I am left with my own cognitive choice in the matter, rather than having others try to decide my course for me.

Thus far I've seen personal objection coupled with religious objection touted in the wake of the film's ending... if either some bloody mystic belief *or* a "friend" who is not in my situation ends up determining my last few years when I am aware enough to do so for myself I think I'm going to puke a catheter on the nearest individual, provided I can turn my head far enough.

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The problem I had with the ending is that in hospitals, when the slightest change occurs with a patient, for example, the patient's heartbeat, it will register with the nurse station that monitors the activities, and a nurse will respond immediately and race to the room to check on the change that occurred with the patient. It is simply implausible that Eastwood's character would be able to inject adrenalin into her IV after disconnecting her breathing tube without a nurse noticing this.

Apparently, Eastwood felt that showing the nurse leaving the station and going out the door was sufficient to set up this scene.

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The film wasn't about Maggie. It was about Frankie. It starts with him and ends with him.

The film is about Frankie learning to take a risk and care about something. He always tells his fighters to protect themselves and he protects himself by not caring about anyone so as not to get hurt. He's been hurt before.

He takes a risk and cares about Maggie despite his reservations. Rather than have everything just turn up roses as most films would do, this one takes the bold step of having everything he feared would happen actually happen. She breaks her neck, he's put in an awful situation, and he gets hurt. What I love about this film is that it choses to really test Frankie's resolve. This time, he doesn't run away from his Maggie when the relationship becomes painful. He sticks with her. He takes care of her. And when she asks him to do the most painful thing in the world, he agrees to do it because he cares that much for her.

Frankie doesn't get any material reward for the risks he takes and the pain he puts himself through. It's not like a lot of other films where they get to go live together in a mansion. Rather, Frankie just gets to become a better person and, like life, it's not easy and it's often very painful. It's a dark and harsh ending, but it sure isn't contrived.

I do agree though that the stuff about her "losing" was total BS. Anyone with half a brain knows that the Bear would not only be banned from boxing but probably have criminal charges brought against her and Maggie would be awarded the belt. That was just dumb.

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Please warn for spoilers next time if you are gonna talk about the ending of the movie.

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"Ridiculous ending" was the title. Yes, according to IMDb rules "spoilers" could and should be noted, but what do you think would be said and discussed about when you see the title?

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