MovieChat Forums > The Passion of the Christ (2004) Discussion > Atheists, if I told you....

Atheists, if I told you....

posted 12 years ago by ostermjr
319 replies | jump to latest

Let me run a little what if with the atheist readers:

If I told you that there is no hell and all you had to do to get into heaven was switch your non-belief in Jesus/God to a strong faith/belief in him as God, would you do it for eternal life?

Little what if scenario "features":
-You change your non-belief in God to a strong faithful belief in God/Jesus in exchange for "free eternal life in heaven"
-You change nothing else in your life

I'm not saying this is true or anything else. Some christians believe that all you need is strong faith of God/Jesus existing to get into heaven, no strings attached/all sins are wiped clean when you die as long as you believe.

I'm not trying to convert or get into a philosophical debate here. Just wondering if it eternal life was this easy, would you do it?

[–] BrainGremlin 11 years ago

Could you wake up tomorrow and choose to be gay?

EDIT: Bad example, because even that is more probable. Consider all the murders in the world. Consider the starvation. Consider everything horrible. Why would a loving God allow it? "Man's mistakes are not God's", you say. I would argue God made it possible, but for the sake of argument, consider instead every horrible thing out of man's hands. Consider natural disasters and diseases. Consider cosmic events that endanger Earth. Should God exist, that's 100% in His hands, and 100% unjustifiable.

It is with extremely little doubt in my heart that I say your God does not exist. I refuse to believe in, let alone worship, such an apathetic -- if not borderline malevolent -- being.

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Sad story. You got a smoke?

[–] mamu2 11 years ago

Consider natural disasters and diseases. Consider cosmic events that endanger Earth. Should God exist, that's 100% in His hands, and 100% unjustifiable.

God Himself would say it's 100% in His hands, if we are to believe the Bible.

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil/disaster/calamity: I the LORD do all these things."

[–] BrainGremlin 11 years ago

So it is also 100% undeniable. There you have it.

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Sad story. You got a smoke?

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] M_A_Perez 11 years ago

[–] ActuallyLiam 11 years ago

No, because you told me. I saw no evidence and thus I'm not going to base my entire life around an unverifiable claim.

Is God so insecure that he requires a strong belief in him without evidence? If he was smart enough to create a universe dont you think using evidence based skepticism and science would appeal more to him than blind faith and gullibility? He created the universe, something that is far far beyond us currently and the majority of our scientists are agnostics and atheists.

[–] njiuma 10 years ago

Is God so insecure that he requires a strong belief in him without evidence?

- No, God is so secure that he requires very little faith, as a mustard seed, a very small amount of faith, to believe in Him with the testimony - a form of evidence accepted in a court - of witnesses to His love and power.

[–] wak_dak 11 years ago

So have you been able to prove without question that God is real then? If not then it's still just your word. You could promise me all the riches in the world and my own moon if I would just believe in God, but it wouldn't mean anything. I'm not an atheist because I dislike the idea of God. I'm an atheist because I have seen no compelling evidence or proof of the existence of a god or gods.

If you were able to definitively prove that he existed instead of saying "he exists because we say so" then of course I would be a believer. I don't deny verifiable facts.

[–] mamu2 11 years ago

Right, if there were proof everyone would know. There'd be no more 'faith' or 'belief', God's existence would just be a fact.

You could promise me all the riches in the world and my own moon if I would just believe in God,

That's the beauty of religion, you are promised many amazing things. Unfortunately, you need to be dead to cash in on them.

[–] njiuma 10 years ago

That's the beauty of religion, you are promised many amazing things. Unfortunately, you need to be dead to cash in on them.

- Actually, there are many blessings to experience and share in this life when you practice a genuine faith.

[–] matias-pequeno 11 years ago

Of course not.

The same answer you would gave me if I asked you to believe in the all powerful galactic teapot to have eternal life.

What do you stand to gain from such question?

[–] deadseamonster 11 years ago

I find it interesting how people who do believe can't seem to understand that not believing isn't a matter of choice. You can't force yourself to believe something that you don't. Some people really do try though. And BTW OP, I was not suggesting that's what you do/are doing.

[–] Zootles 11 years ago

True, and on the contrary many religious believers have 'forced' themselves to believe. They actively try not to question and instead push rational thinking to the deepest parts of their mind.

[–] mamu2 11 years ago

True, and on the contrary many religious believers have 'forced' themselves to believe. They actively try not to question and instead push rational thinking to the deepest parts of their mind.

Martin Luther, St. Augustine, and St. Ignatius Loyola seem to agree with you...

"To be a Christian, you must "pluck out the eye of reason." - Martin Luther

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God." - Martin Luther

"There is another form of temptation, even more fraught with danger. This is the disease of curiosity. It is this which drives us to try and discover the secrets of nature, those secrets which are beyond our understanding, which can avail us nothing and which man should not wish to learn." — St. Augustine

"We should always be disposed to believe that which appears to us to be white is really black, if the hierarchy of the church so decides." — St. Ignatius Loyola

[–] Zootles 11 years ago

So they are, or at least thats what they wanted their followers to believe. Classic cases of 'do as I say, not as I do'

Curiosity should NEVER ever be suppressed, its one of the defining factors that evolved humans to where we are now.

[–] mamu2 11 years ago

Not sure many of the people that surpress their own curiosity in order to believe are all that keen on evolution.

[–] Cagney68 11 years ago

I don't know how to quote on here, but exactly what deadseamonster said. If God were real, why did he make me an atheist?

I forget who said that, but it makes perfect sense to me.

[–] raif-1 11 years ago

I don't know how to quote on here, but exactly what deadseamonster said. If god were real, why did he make me an atheist?

Verse from the Quran...

And We have revealed to you, [O Muúammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ. Quran, (5:48)

You have to understand that one is not forced to be a believer though you may not wholly agree with me (based on what other believers are saying etc). However, if you really open your heart and mind to the scriptures and miracles of this world, you would come to the conclusion that there is a creator. Of course, atheists always need to see hard evidences and actually there are such evidences (if you accept them) but never an evidence as GOD coming down and revealing himself to you in your face that sort of evidence. There are some instances of atheists becoming believers and if you see them, their conviction of religion is much stronger than a person that was born into that religion. So, being an atheist is actually better for someone when they see the truth at some point in their life. GOD does intend for people to find the truth and if they are sincere, GOD will lead them to it. In the end, you will have to really address yourselves whether you chose to be a believer or not based on good judgement, on your part.

[–] Monoxstride 11 years ago

I can't just "decide" to believe something. Believing is being truly convinced in your mind that something is true. I can pretend to believe, or try to convince myself to believe something for whatever reason, but belief is not a choice.

[–] raif-1 11 years ago

What you say is true and nobody is asking you to "decide" what to believe. What I'm trying to convey is that if you already believe that a deity exists, you owe it to yourself to search the true path. Put sincere effort into it and pray for the best and hopefully GOD will show you the way.