MovieChat Forums > The Passion of the Christ (2004) Discussion > Atheists, if I told you....

Atheists, if I told you....

posted 12 years ago by ostermjr
319 replies | jump to latest

Let me run a little what if with the atheist readers:

If I told you that there is no hell and all you had to do to get into heaven was switch your non-belief in Jesus/God to a strong faith/belief in him as God, would you do it for eternal life?

Little what if scenario "features":
-You change your non-belief in God to a strong faithful belief in God/Jesus in exchange for "free eternal life in heaven"
-You change nothing else in your life

I'm not saying this is true or anything else. Some christians believe that all you need is strong faith of God/Jesus existing to get into heaven, no strings attached/all sins are wiped clean when you die as long as you believe.

I'm not trying to convert or get into a philosophical debate here. Just wondering if it eternal life was this easy, would you do it?

[–] KennethWasHere 10 years ago

I can't say that I would. Eternal life spent in the company of that God from the Old Testament is not appealing. Even if there was no Hell to risk, I would rather face oblivion.

The bitter thinkers buy their tickets to go find God like a piggy in a fair

[–] StKitten 10 years ago

Interesting question but my answer is no. Unequivocally no.

To not believe and then believe only to save your own skin is pure hipocrisy. I hate hipocrites.

(I'm an atheist and happy that way.)

If we burn you burn with us.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] darren_dw 10 years ago

Well obviously I'm a bit late to the party here, but I was surfing on my lunch break and saw your post. So here goes:

If I told you that there is no hell and all you had to do to get into heaven was switch your non-belief in Jesus/God to a strong faith/belief in him as God, would you do it for eternal life?

What makes you think I can just "choose" to believe whatever I want? What if we replace a strong belief in Jesus/God to a belief in a giant flying invisible snickers chocolate bar. And replace eternal life with a $10 million reward for that belief. Could I believe in that and collect my reward? No, I couldn't, because it's ridiculous. Sure I could pay lip service to this chocolate bar, I could pray to it, I could try to convert others, I could say I believe. But in my heart I know I wouldn't, and I couldn't because it's absurd. I can't just believe in my heart something absurd because the reward of it is alluring. Your beliefs are the result of your reason, intelligence, life experience, childhood, and so many other factors. A person cannot just flip like a light switch and believe in their heart whatever. It simply doesn't work that way.

So to answer your question more clearly, no, I couldn't believe in that even if eternal life was that easy, because I don't find the evidence for the God of the bible compelling enough on an intellectual level. I base my beliefs on evidence and reason. And your God falls outside of those two things. And therefore, as a result the reward of such a belief or the punishment of not believing is irrelevant.

[–] flutter_budget 10 years ago

Okay lets say they did. I doubt it would do the person any good. A basis of belief to cover your bases isn't choosing and believing that Jesus died sacrificing himself so that even though WE ARE ALL UNWORTHY his sacrifice allows those of us recognize/believe/appreciate that sacrifice on God and Christ's part to impart forgiveness for what we are and what we have done allowing us eternity with God despite the fact that we are seriously unworthy and continue to sin. People tend to misunderstand or forget. Christians are still big fat sinners too! That doesn't change. We are born into sin, we live in it to some degree throughout life and technically we die in it. Jesus was the only man to have never committed a sin (well until he took responsibility for all our sins) I think both believers and non believers misunderstand or forget that. A believer is no better than any none believer period! Both types are sinners both types screw up and yes both make mistakes or do wrong that they are and sometimes are not sorry for. God knows your heart. We can trick/deceive/pretend to be whatever to each other and we can even lie to ourselves but not God. According to what I BELIEVE I have no place or right to guess or judge who goes to heaven. All I know is that it is a choice that we are given and that those who truly do believe are to be forgiven and allowed to spend eternity with God. So pretending or believing to an extent or just in case I would think would be a waste of time. Either you really do and commit to that or you don't either way there is no concrete certainty the rest of us know and can say regarding others lives after death. Faith plays a huge role because of this. We are taught those that refuse to believe or be grateful for that sacrifice do not get that gift of redemption and are not permitted eternity with God. BUT I can't say that people have chosen not to believe then died and went to Hell. God makes it clear that I couldn't know and that I shouldn't even try.

[–] Doom-bringer 10 years ago

Why would you want eternal life?

[–] LubyleFou 10 years ago

I kind of consider myself as an atheist but the figure of Christ is undoubtedly the most important and inspiring figure of all time.

Having said that, I judged this film purely as a film, which it is above all: and as an act of film making it is frankly wonderful and powerful.

It is very bloody yes, and at times difficult to watch( although not quite as difficult as it's made out to be), but what a rewarding experience that was. I don't care about the scandal that the movie created because more than 10 years later this scandal has kind of vanished anyway...but my point is that it is a very important movie, filled with excellent performances, and with a great cinematography, editing and score...and I also like its uncompromising and unflinching approach to the subject matter, which is typical of Gibson's films...and I think that he is a very brave director to show violence and humiliation in such a way: not gloryfing it at all, but showing it for what it is: an abomination.

So I think that it does not really matter if you are a religious person or not: judge this as a film and if it can in the meantime create in you some kind of interest in these important matters, all the better...but let's not go in for this 'anti-semitic or fundamentalist' *beep*. This here is a great and courageous movie, that's all there is to it...but I would perfectly understand if someone did not like it for its graphic depiction of events for instance...

9/10

Some people *beep* up all the time....

[–] Rumble_McSkirmish 10 years ago

Well, I'd consider the myth of the man to be important, but certainly not the most important. Without constantine Christianity would not exist. Without Charles Martel, christianity would have been wiped from the world. Without the council of Nicea the current myth of Jesus would not exist. Jesus owes much of his existance in the modern era to fanatics of older times that put others to the sword to spread belief.

I mean naming his myth as the single most important in history is about on par with saying Truman won WWII by himself.

Panzer vor!

[–] Mellow-Fellow 10 years ago

Most religious people are cowards. Afraid to face their own mortality. So they design this happy place where they live immortally forever, and pretend to believe everything the bible says. Stupid people mindlessly believe, the smart ones doubt in the back of their minds but wouldn't dare speak, or does God not hear your thoughts?

When confronted about the many debunked flaws in the bible, they retort with "Oh, that's not meant to be taken literally", but interpret other things out of context or to their own desire just the same as the Muslim extremists you call "terrorists". One man's terrorist is another's freedom fighter? More people have died over religion than for any other reason, but I think people just need an excuse to kill eachother sometimes, so why not make it ironic, and masked with the label of righteousness when you go out for the slaughter? Whoever designed all of this here, everything... certainly has a sense of humor.

[–] EsmagaSapos 10 years ago

So you are the smart one?

But thats the point, until people don't realize they are the all dancing crap in the world, they have no power, they (we) are all the same ... born the same way and die the same way they won't really advance. All it matters is what you have done in this world. And been a smart guy doesn't really help you. Because you are doing the same thing Bible alerts... selling your rhetoric *beep* like anti-Christ. People like to fell they have the power, they don't.

“So give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s.”

Matthew 22:21

[–] bredlau3 10 years ago

But thats the point, until people don't realize they are the all dancing crap in the world, they have no power, they (we) are all the same ... born the same way and die the same way they won't really advance. All it matters is what you have done in this world. And been a smart guy doesn't really help you. Because you are doing the same thing Bible alerts... selling your rhetoric *beep* like anti-Christ. People like to fell they have the power, they don't.

I have read your contributions to this board now and I do find it a bit funny that you are calling people stupid.

[–] Mellow-Fellow 10 years ago

No I know that I know nothing in the grand scale of things, just what I see and learn taken for what it's worth by the author, and the evil facts of religion significantly outweigh the potential positives people perceive. What you you think they do? For me when I was younger I thought they helped homeless, addicts, and preached on Sundays. Then you read about the molestation, hear about it first hand, like it's some kind of underground pedophiles profession.

Don't get me started on the money, why do these evangelists want to sell me a 2oz bottle of WATER for $300 at 2 in the morning, for brief moments I think the "terrorists" (in america) and Muslim extremists (east) have it right since I find myself wanting to kill a man offering to sell me a promise that a $300 2oz bottle of water from Jesus will cure all my problems in life. Literally, that was the message. Didn't they also need a helicopter to spread the "word of the lord" faster? Must be a lot quicker getting home every night by air to keep "fighting the good fight"

Not to mention the crusades, let's send 30,000 children to retake Jerusalem was it? They all starved, died, or were sold as slaves for the cause, well played. Popes writing erotic novels? John Wycliffe? For about 1,000 years, the Bible remained well known only to the church officials, clergy of all orders, and an elect few well educated scholars. It was never counter to any Papal Bull for any person to translate the Bible into another language. However, anyone who intended to do so was strongly admonished by the Pope himself, with every archbishop, bishop and priest of the continent told not to translate the Bible into any language besides Biblical Hebrew, Ancient Greek or Latin. These three languages were almost dead at the time, meaning no one spoke them commonly. sounds a bit like slavery?

The Knights Templar? the Catholic Church was officially and directly responsible in torturing and executing the Templar knights, knowing full well that they were innocent of all charges. Please... Ill continue about your great religion...

Galileo was of the opinion that Nicholas Copernicus was right. The Earth is not the center. The Church didn’t want to hear that. Galileo went to Rome to persuade the Church not to ban Copernicus’s works, and instead of convincing them, the Church officials turned on Galileo and demanded that he desist with his ideas of Heliocentrism. Heliocentrism is the "BELIEF" in which the Earth and planets revolve around the Sun at the center of the Solar System. Which we know as ABSOLUTE fact today.. But nevermind facts to these people, the earth is only 6000 years old right? I do see why they want to kill us... I really do.

More?... Joan of Ark? Joan of Arc was executed for heresy, not because she claimed to hear the voice of God, not because she defied and killed the English, but because she was said to have worn a man’s clothing while in prison. After being refused legal counsel.

I'm getting tired, read about it yourself if you want, The atrocities are endless for your "pure" religion. Go watch Jesus Camp the documentary released around 2001, It's not blasphemous in any way at all.. Just very eye opening to some of you who may not truly realize how insane some of these people are. Pray to god in war, or Jesus for bringing us food, sure! but too many people bring it to a whole new level of insanity. They should be institutionalized, but how? Concentrated areas... Camps? Concentrated.. Concentration camps, that works, and we shall label them by religion and extremity with arm bands so we can keep a good eye on them....... Right?

[–] EsmagaSapos 10 years ago

I'm not catholic dude, neither my parents. Religions sell God eight days a week. I have faith in God, that doesn't means I am from Religion A, B or C. You in the other hand, don't believe in God because of what Catholicism did/does. No one told them, they will represent God's voice. Is just a good business.

[–] Rumble_McSkirmish 10 years ago

You in the other hand, don't believe in God because of what Catholicism did/does.

Weren't you the one complaining in another thread that just because something is X doesn't make it Y?

Are you like 10 or something?

Panzer vor!

[–] EsmagaSapos 10 years ago

Please, 11 years old.

[–] Mellow-Fellow 10 years ago

Where did I say I didn't believe in God? You seem to assume a lot of things. I too have "faith" (I guess you could call it that) in a higher power.

Not believing in a religion because of what people have done in the past would be silly. Hypocrites everywhere. People will continue to be people. You know this is the most peaceful time in history ever recorded? Check out all the wars still going on though.

No one told them, they will represent God's voice. Is just a good business.

What does this mean? Nobody told Catholics?? Yes I guess they will try to arrogantly represent God's voice. Is just business, sure, it's a huge business, good business? I suppose that is debatable.

[–] bredlau3 10 years ago

So I'm going to just start to reply to the threads about the movie [without haters].

Hey EsmagaSapos....this is a quote from you back in Nov of 2014...What happened to this statement...was it a lie?

[–] EsmagaSapos 10 years ago

I'm his brother, and his brother reply's to whatever feel at ease.