MovieChat Forums > Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981) Discussion > Why nuking the fridge and not riding the...

Why nuking the fridge and not riding the sub?


Just to be clear: this is the greatest action movie ever, and one of the best film in history.
Crystall Skull is a giant turd not worth even mentioning in the same post.

But I wanna play the turd's advocate and ask you: why is nuking the fridge jumping the shark, while riding the sub is, instead, almost cool?

I admit, the fact that he holds onto a submarine never bothered me that much, I thought when I saw it when I was 8 "that doesn't make sense, did he go inside? What happened there". But then he's in the sub base and I was already thinking "how's he gonna get the ark from there?". I kinda brushed it off as an awesome stunt that he pulled off somehow.

But to be frank, it's as much BS as nuking the fridge, it's not realistic inside its movie world. So why do you think one is internationally ridiculed as an epic fail and the other is barely mentioned?

reply

My opinion is the "nuke the fridge" scene wasn´t even that bad. Mutt vine-swinging like Tarzan, catching up to speeding vehicles was infinitely more dumb. I think the reason it gets singled out is because the entire movie was bad so the fans had to nitpick something but you could literally take your pick at the amount of dumb scenes in the movie. Raiders is all around a great movie, so the sub part gets a pass.

reply

That crapfest is 2 hours of stupid, ludicrous action. What about the ants? The gophers? the car in the waterfalls? bike inside the university? sword fighting? more sword fighting? the escape at the beginning? it's crap after crap after crap.
But nuking the fridge is on another level of stupidity, that's why everybody remembers it.
Mutt swinging is unbelievable but at least it obeys the laws of physics. It's not much better but it's slightly more reasonable.
Swinging is a cartoon, but nuking the fridge is a silly cartoon.

reply

Actually those were Prairie Dogs. Not Gophers. Prairie Dogs are only native to the Western States like Wyoming and Idaho. Though to be fair I have lived in Illinois my whole life and have never seen a gopher. Though I do remember my family having a Gopher problem when I was a kid but all I saw was a hole in the ground where the gopher dug. But I never actually saw a gopher. Then again there are beavers where I live in Illinois and I've never seen those. But only because they are nocturnal animals. So C.S Louis didn't know this when writing the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe. Then again, I am sure a lot of people don't know that beavers are nocturnal. My science lesson is over. Jeeze! I'm such a nerd!

reply

I know they are not gophers, but it's faster to type n you know what Im talkin about anyway.
I ve never seen any of these animals, just rats.

reply

That is true; the Tarazan swinging with monkey is equally dumb; or the car 'riding' the tree into the river, I mean there was a lot of insane dumb things that happen. I think the nuke the fridge gets 'special' recognition because it happens early in the film and really ended up setting the tone for the stupid that was about to be witnessed for the next hour and 30 minutes.

reply

lol. good point.

reply

I think that while the entire film is filled with shit that would require so many things to go just right to even have a remote chance of almost happening that you ignore all of them as being just dumb... but the nuked fridge was beyond a one in a million chance of ever happening. We all know the effects of a nuclear explosion and we all know it wouldn't matter if you were in a fridge or not you would be fucked. We know when humans were vaporized by the explosion and their shadows burned into concrete walls that if you were in a fridge and for whatever reason the fridge didn't melt around you that it would have still been so hot that you would have been cooked inside. Dead long before you died from the after effects of radiation exposure and death from the high fall of the fridge which would have also killed someone inside even if they had simply been pushed off a tall building that same height. It was and will always be the most ridiculous part of the movie because it ignores reality to the extent it does. Even the fucking crystal skeletons coming to life doesn't seem as ridiculous as the nuked fridge escape.

reply

I don't know; swinging on vines along with monkeys and catchup up to moving vehicles seems equally impossible to me.

But yes, you are correct the nuke the fridge is a special kind of impossible because we know too much about the effects of the blast; the fridge would not survive the blast, the person inside could not survive the concussion of the explosion and they would not have survived the fall either; which brings up another point, the explosion would not be able to launch the fridge a mile away like that. It would have stayed in the blast area and not be turned into a projectile like that. The explosion did not happen underneath the house/fridge the blast would have pushed the fridge horizontal not vertical. So you basically have 4 absolutely impossible things happen during 1 event. with the vine swing it was just 1 impossible thing. So you have a point.

"Even the fucking crystal skeletons coming to life doesn't seem as ridiculous as the nuked fridge escape."

Lol true.

reply

While the monkey swinging bullshit was ridiculous, one could have at least imagined some plausible though unlikely way it could have happened, such as the swings and is limited in speed by the effect of gravity pulling him, while the vehicle he is catching up to has to slow down when hitting brush, trees and crap like that.. it was unlikely as hell but at least it didn't defy all known laws of physics. Even the submarine ride in the first one could have happened if the sub never went below periscope depth, unlikely but again at least your mind could come up with a plausible if unlikely scenario where it could have happened.

reply

True; while I would contest the monkey swing did violate laws of physics; it was not as belligerently egregious like nuking the fridge was.

reply

I think riding the sub is barely mentioned because it's not an important detail. They don't SHOW Indy hanging on the submerging sub or have a scene of him looking around in a panic when it starts to dive. You see Indy on top waving triumphantly to the crew of Katanga's ship, then the scene cuts to the action inside the U-boat. We don't see Indy again until he suddenly appears in the port. You're meant to conveniently ignore what happens in between and I think if you're not watching too critically, it's quite easy to do just that.

The nuke scene, on the other hand, draws attention to itself because it shows every detail of Indy jumping in the fridge and being subjected to a nuclear explosion. It's impossible to ignore and I find it impossible to suspend disbelief enough to think the terrific acceleration and deceleration wouldn't cause instant death and break every bone in his body.

reply

Yes, good points, I agree with everything.
It's weird how the sub is NEVER mentioned, like I said in the OP and you said too, it's easy to ignore it as it doesn't draw much attention to itself. It's just a minor problem in an incredibly awesome movie.
If you see Raiders' deleted scenes, they actually shot Indy hanging outside the almost completely submerged submarine. Thank God they didn't use that, it would just draw more attention and be even less realistic than the final version.

reply

To me the riding the sub is just another cool/funny scene that flows well with the movie. After all, the Indy movies were based on the 1930's serials where every week the audience was left with a cliffhanger/ impossible escape to live another day.

So yeah, riding the sub flowed well in Raiders so what's wrong with nuke the fridge in KOTCS? Well, aside from Harrison Ford actually doing a damn good job reintroducing his Indy character THE WHOLE MOVIE IS HORRIBLE..and having prairie dogs and monkeys and flying cars for kiddie audiences is either lazy or just an admission by the movie makers that even after 29 years to develop a plot or script they threw up their hands and admitted "we got NOTHING"

GOD!

reply

My guess is the sub would conserve battery by being on the surface.

reply

Yes that makes sense, but it is not addressed in the movie so the mistery remains...
my guess is that the nazi decided to enter the annual Greek surfing contest riding their sub.

reply

Plus they can go faster with the diesels than the battery.

reply

Also a good reason. But no matter the reason, it's a harebrained scene, it makes Indy look stupid or immortal.

reply

You just have to wave your hand and dismiss reality in this scene. There's no way Indy could have done it in reality. This is a Type VII U-boat (or a mockup of the upper half -- same one used in the movie "Das Boot" BTW). WWII submarines like the German Type VII U-boat were submersibles rather than true submarines. They spent most of their time on the surface running on their diesel engines and keeping the batteries fully charged, and only submerged for relatively brief periods. With the boat on the surface, the conning tower would have been manned, and Indy would have been spotted. If the sub had submerged (which it really has no reason to do unless it's attacked or about to attack another ship), it wouldn't stay at periscope depth so Indy could hold on and keep his head above water; it would have gone deeper and he would have drowned unless he let go.

There's no way to square it with reality, so you just have to let it go and not allow it to spoil your enjoyment of the movie.

reply

You are totally right. There were no snorkels on German boats in this period so they could only travel at any speed on the surface. No reason to submerge and move along slowly at periscope depth. No place to hide from lookouts on the tower. No place to hide below deck. No way for it to work. Just take it as a moment from an old movie serial.

reply

In that case, it's probably a good thing they deleted that scene of Indy lashed to the periscope with his whip.

reply

Probably. Here's a bit from the novelization by Campbell Black. I italicized one sentence...
The sub began to submerge. Perceptibly, it was sinking like a huge metallic fish. He rushed across the deck, water at his waist now. He reached the conning tower, then began to climb the ladder. At the top of the turret he looked down: the sub was still sinking. Water was rushing, wildly swirling foam, toward him. The turret was being consumed by the rising water, and then the radio mast was sinking too. He moved, treading water, to the periscope. He hung on to it as the vessel continued to sink. If it went under entirely, then he was lost. The periscope started to go down, too. Down and down, while he gripped it. Please, he thought, please don’t go down any further. But this is what comes of trying to stow yourself away on a German submarine. You can’t expect the old red-carpet treatment, can you?
Freezing, shivering, he hung on to the periscope; and then, as if some merciful divinity of the ocean had heard his unspoken prayers, the vessel stopped its dive. It left only three feet of the periscope out of water. But three feet was something to be thankful for. Three feet was all he needed to survive. Don’t sink any deeper, he thought. Then he realized he was talking aloud, not thinking. It might have been, in other circumstances, funny—trying to hold a rational conversation with several tons of good German metal. I’m out of my mind. That’s what it is. And all this is just hallucination. A nautical madness.
Indy took the bullwhip and lashed himself to the periscope, hoping that if he fell asleep he wouldn’t wake to find himself on the black ocean bottom, or worse—food for the fishes.

reply

They might have a reason to dive if they didn't want the cargo vessel to report to anyone about their heading, given the cargo they were carrying. That's actually not entirely unreasonable. And really, what other reason could there be for choosing a uboat as transportation in the first place? Ok, we know the reason is because Spielberg thought it would be cool, but the reason for the nazis in the film would have to be that it had the capacity to dive.

And the boat does dive. The order is given in the movie, and the wheels to the ballast tanks are being turned.

reply

Yes, but as I said, if they had done that Indy would have had to either let go, or drown. If the boat dived, it was going to dive to a depth of ten or twenty meters, not stay just under the surface where Indy could hang onto the periscope. There is simply no way to reconcile this scene with the reality of how Germans operated U Boats in the thirties and forties. None. So you just have to handwave it away.

reply

It's faster to travel using the diesel compared to battery. And safer. They wanted to take no chances. It's make perfect sense they didn't dive.

reply

And if they didn't dive, then as I said, the captain and helmsman would have been up on the conning tower, where the ship was steered from and commanded while on the surface, and there would have been no place for Indy to avoid being spotted.

reply

He could has easily been behind the tower.

reply

No he couldn't. When the boat's on the surface, there were usually 4-5 men on the conning tower. Given the small size of the deck up there, that meant there were usually 1-2 back at the rear where the anti-aircraft gun was. As soon as one of them looked down, they would have spotted Indy.

reply

They wouldn't have that many on a boat that small. He could easily hide. Be reasonable.

reply

They DO have that many on a boat that small. When the boat is running on the surface you have the captain (or officer of the watch) commanding. Then there's a helmsman to steer. Then you have a couple of lookouts -- this is a warship -- and one of them mans the anti-aircraft gun at need. Is it crowded up there? Yes, of course it is, who whole boat was crowded as hell. You clearly have no conception of what the condition of WWII submarines were like. Fifty men crammed into a 165 foot long metal, fifteen foot wide metal cylinder (those are the dimensions of the pressure hull) where the air quickly got stale and rank when the boat submerged, and the men returned from every patrol bearded and filthy because there was no water for shaving or washing. Seriously, watch Das Boot. It's a pretty accurate portrayal of what conditions aboard these boats were like, and when the boat's on the surface, there are typically 4-5 people up on the conning tower. Given what conditions were like inside the boats, I'm sure they were glad to be up there in the fresh air. Dude, you're arguing against documented reality. We know from German records how they operated these things, and there are abundant wartime photographs to depict it.

reply

As others have said, the better movie gets more of a pass for this sort of thing. Also the fridge scene was way more in your face ridiculous, while Indy's journey on the sub happens off screen, so the highly implausible semantics of it never even occurred to most people.

reply

To this day that scene is just uplifting as hell to me. Like, yeah! Indy's on the sub! Picking apart movies takes the fun out of the whole escapism element.

reply

It is uplifting.
All the ship crew is cheering him, and the score underlines how awesome the moment is.
Also uplifting: surviving a nuclear blast.
Yet I was upset watching it.

reply

I was upset watching that whole movie.

reply

I still am just thinking about it.

reply

Well thanks for making me think about it. It just hurts me that the didn't make like, 2 more movies in the ninetys, one in the early 2000's.

reply

I know.
But hey, they are making a new one now, that's great news!
Can't wait for the new cgi stunts, and I need to know what happens to Mutt.

reply

Never been a fan of shooting the messenger, but fuck you.

reply

Hehe, I hear ya my friend.

reply

The way they are presented helps. One leaves it up to the imagination. The other leaves nothing to the imagination and relies on CGI to absurdly show the same fridge Indy gets in flying through the air from a nuclear bomb going off, ridiculously overtaking the truck of Russians on its way while they get wiped out by the blast, then landing and bouncing around and having Indiana Jones fall out of it unscathed to a CGI prairie dog, or whatever that thing is. It's a series of unbelievable events all rolled into one. However unbelievable Indy riding on the submarine might have been it's made more believable than what we see in Skull by comparison.

reply

Yes, I agree with your post.

Also, more on the way they are presented, one is at the end of the movie, after we get accustomed to Indy's persistence; the other one is right at the beginning, with all its cartoonish CGI and action, and feels like an insult to our expectations of realism.

reply

That's true in terms of Raiders being the first film and seeing it for the first time. Although by the 4th film I guess you could say we are already acquainted with Indy and his abilities to escape the unescapable enough, that it no longer matters where you happen to show such a moment in the film.

I think if anything the unrealistic moments in Raiders have maybe been more highlighted in retrospect, on account of Skull presenting such unrealistic moments, that people feel the need to compare with the first film in order to offer some sort of justification.

What I would say also about the moment on the submarine, we assume that Indy was able to stay on the submarine because it didn't submerge enough while travelling (you can even see in deleted scenes that he held on to the periscope), and if this hadn't been the case he'd have just abandoned the idea and swam away. This is unlike the nuke the fridge scene where there is no abandoning anything. He is faced with a nuclear bomb going off with literally no means of escape. But the movie decided the fridge needed to be nuke proof and fly into the air to a safe distance.

reply