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What was the deal and the point of the scene with "Joe" the lodger?

posted 8 months ago by TheMan18 (13047)
15 replies | jump to latest

Besides it being what it is, what message do you think was meant to be conveyed there? Also...

Couldn't his parents have exerted themselves more than cry and passively listen when he was saying all that stuff about Alex and how he is an irredeemable monster and all that? Could they not also have offered him REAL shelter elsewhere and have claimed that, for instance, he could stay there for a while and you can live here - especially in his state and no job after his release, he wouldn't be able to afford a part time property anywhere to rent or stay at the time?

And also, when Joe claims that he has read about all the "many horrible things he's done", for all he and the mass media knew, he was only arrested for and charged with accidental killing (and it was somewhat proven it was an "accident") of that one woman and not for many other crimes that we knew he was responsible for, but how did he know about "so many other bad deeds he has done"?

And what if the father and the mother really did throw a fit and Joe and said to him "Stop it, don't be rude or we will throw you out?" and just express their disagreement, yeah, I know it would've been a different movie but still...

Alex may have been unhappy for a while but could his parents have offered him shelter elsewhere?

But besides all of this, what was the point of this scene and what message was it trying to convey?

That when you commit serious crimes and later get released, one way or another your life will change for the worse even when you're out and you could face inconveniences such as revolt from certain members of the public and even discomfort within your own family?

P.S. And let's say Alex didn't throw a huge fit and actually allowed Joe the lodger to stay, had forgiven him for saying all that stuff and didn't hold a huge grudge on his parents for passively being on that guy's side and actually asked "So where can I live now?", would his parents have afforded to rent him a room somewhere else at least for a little while? And couldn't Joe himself, his parents etc have been at least a little more DIPLOMATIC in the process and negotiate the terms and conditions no matter how much "sentimental value" (and it did apparently!) his home and place had to him, never mind also Alex fearing for his life later as it turns out from that homeless men and his pals, his former Droogs turned cops in an unfair twist of events and Mr Alexander later himself, if such thoughts even DID cross his mind.

[–] pazuzu9 (384) 8 months ago

I think it was to spur sympathy (By the viewer) for Alex, who didn't deserve sympathy. Kubrick likes to examine these things. Kinda similar to Lolita.

[–] TheMan18 (13047) 8 months ago

This was done in a way already before that...

But what did you think of all those other points I've mentioned (i.e. parents being unable to stand up to Joe speaking so ill of their, even if criminally responsible, son, not offering him further shelter (would they be able to afford it?), the lodger "mysteriously" knowing about "many horrible things" Alex did even though he was only charged with one crime and the overall message and meaning of that scene?)

Cheers.

[–] Melton (4593) 7 months ago

His parents were oblivious to or in denial about his rape and murder sprees, but once he was imprisoned they read all about him and went along with the societal view of him as a scumbag, and were happy to rent his room out and kick him out (although were too cowardly to straight up say it - his dad was a weak cuck who had probably been bullied by Alex)

As for Joe knowing about ‘the many horrible things’, time had passed and society had changed radically - his fellow droogs were now cops as criminals were now being turned into enforcers, in this process much of Alex’s crimes would have come to light, and probably a load of crimes he hadn’t committed were attributed to him.

The meaning of that scene was showing how higher powers were controlling society and had affected Alex’s parents’ view of him, and to generate some audience sympathy for him. Vile though he was, he became a pawn in a bigger, more sinister political game.

[–] Redsfan001 (6152) 8 months ago

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[–] TheMan18 (13047) 8 months ago

I thought that was just done because while he was in prison they needed either company or more money so they rented the room out. They also didn't know or expect that Alex would be released so rather soon.

[–] aavfreak (3329) 8 months ago

I thought that was just done because while he was in prison they needed either company or more money so they rented the room out.

Alex may have been unhappy for a while but could his parents have offered him shelter elsewhere?

You may have answered one of your own questions here. If they needed to rent out the room for money, then obviously they couldn't have rented another place just for Alex.

[–] TheMan18 (13047) 8 months ago

"You may have answered one of your own questions here. If they needed to rent out the room for money, then obviously they couldn't have rented another place just for Alex."

That may be partially true.

But the film doesn't really go in depth as to why the parents of Alex REALLY decided to rent out the room to Joe. Maybe they weren't terribly short of money but desired MORE money, maybe they also wanted a company to replace their long-time imprisoned son, maybe they didn't mind it all too much and thus have given it to him.

Besides, whether in Britain in 1971 or this film's future setting, I wonder - was it really expensive to rent a flat or a place for say a few months? Would Alex's parents (no idea what they did for a living or how much they earned) be able to afford it on their basic as well as somewhat EXTRA salaries or rent money? And even given Alex's emotional state with the lodger adding fuel to fire by saying terrible things about him throughout and the parents don't dare ask him to stop, could or would Alex say if he didn't storm out in anger decide to negotiate such terms, heck, maybe he had OTHER relatives in that place who could welcome him and give him shelter or sanctuary, however short or for a while?

[–] aavfreak (3329) 8 months ago

There's a lot to unpack in that scene for sure. But my final takeaway was that Joe said all the things to Alex that his parents would like to have said but never did. They wanted to wash their hands of Alex and Joe was their "cleanser" so to speak.

[–] TheMan18 (13047) 7 months ago

Maybe but then it didn't seem before Joe's speech as if his parents were really that desperate to get rid of him.

[–] Redsfan001 (6152) 8 months ago

[deleted]

[–] TheMan18 (13047) 8 months ago

"that such a domineering young man of Alex's nature could come from the loins of such a meek and milk toast father."

People can turn monstrously criminal for a variety of reasons personal and sometimes objective and societal, its not all about parenthood.

[–] TheMan18 (13047) 8 months ago

And on a side note, who or what really gave Joe the lodger the right to be so judgmental and speak for Alex's parents like that? And it didn't occur to Joe that maybe his parents could still take Alex's side and kick him out? No - they just sat their in passive silence, cried and did nothing to get involved. At the end though, I wonder - did they still leave Joe and did they ultimately find a place for Alex to stay or was Joe made to leave and thus Alex at the end was welcomed back in his own home?

Also. Yeah, I get it that Alex was upset that for instance his place was temporarily given to someone else who also invited hostility towards him. But its also clear by that point Alex had NO MONEY to say go and find a place to stay in, whether a hotel or a room somewhere, and I bet that to a degree those were fairly reasonable to expensive. And he didn't ask his parents for money either. So where was he PLANNING to find SHELTER before finally getting attacked by his former victims? And also, let's say Alex somehow DID have money or his parents have given him some money to go and rent a place elsewhere, would he really do it, albeit reluctantly? Or... Was his homeplace really so dear to him and that being even "temporarily" kicked out of it was a huge insult that even if he HAD money to somehow go and live elsewhere or his parents had it and have given it to him, he would not do it on his own accord?

[–] whynotwriteme (7722) 7 months ago

I'm guessing that Alex's parents had spent many evenings crying on Joe's shoulders about all of Alex's misdeeds. Joe shrewdly exploited this by comforting and reassuring them and acting as "the perfect son". Joe had them wrapped around his little finger and was comfortable saying whatever he pleased about Alex. Joe had exploited the situation to the point that he was the dominant person of the household.

On the second point, I do not think Alex really cared about his parents or had any sentimental attachment to his home. He was only concerned with having a place to stay and upset that his belongings had been disposed of. Finally, I think Alex just viewed the situation as a lost cause and left with no concrete plans at all.

[–] ebhaynz (3689) 7 months ago

The Joe the lodger scene is just one of a succession of scenes that shows Alex the devastation he's left behind AND how much his old world has changed during his incarceration.

Scene after scene shows Alex has NO PLACE LEFT TO GO.

[–] CalvinJarrett (458) 2 months ago

That scene was intended to show how weak and feckless Alex's parents were. I think Burgess and Kubrick were trying to show how permissive and absent parents were when it came to raising this generation of teenage children. His mom seems to work long hours at a pub. His dad has some sort of role in business that requires him to wear a suit. Neither of them seem to have any time to supervise, counsel, or discipline their one child. His mom tries to wake him up, but Alex says through the locked door he's got a "pain in the Gulliver" (or headache) and can't go to school. The school master pops in and at least tries to convince Alex to attend school. Alex is able to take two young girls to his room in the middle of the day and have a three-way. Parents are none the wiser. They're not bad people, per se, but they are totally ineffectual parents. Perhaps with some discipline or genuine interest in getting to know him as a person he may not have turned out the way he did. That they could be so persuaded by a stranger (Joe) to give up his room further shows how weak and dismissive they are.

Only after his abandonment leads to his suicide attempt (due to the writer's touturing him with Beethoven music) do they make amends and say they kicked Joe out and his room is his room again. But that was a big press day at the hospital and his parents and the M.P. (or P.M.) wanted to 'be friends' with Alex because it was now socially and politically necessary to do so.