I'll be trying to respond, though I have seen that movie only once, without thinking much while I was watching (I just let it happen if you see what I mean), and that it had such an horrid subtitling job it made me angry (they would only put subtitles when they felt what was said was essential, I suppose - too bad for those who wanted to hear about the non-essential things!).
I quite disagreed about Steiner. I believed in him completely. I'm not sure what you mean about his party - it should have been enough for Marcello to stop looking up to Steiner? But maybe we know better than marcello when we view this scene. The people there sound rather pompous ; but on the other hand, they wrote things that don't seem to be bad. Marcello liked the poems of one of the women - maybe he just says this out of politeness, but maybe he did like them. The man who tell about the women from orient wrote various travel books. Maybe they're good, even if the man looks rather senile. I would say that either they are indeed morons, and Marcello is mostly blinded by the fact they wrote and published things - something that make them superior to him ; or maybe they are actually intelligent people, like Steiner. But the codes of social life make them all sound like morons. I don't know, have you ever been to whatever cultural manifestation attracting the culture-inclined people of the whole region? At first you have the feel they reunited the worst pseudo-intellectuals around you ; then in horror, you start thinking you may not be as different from them as you'd like to think. You express ideas in similar ways. You feel you're sincere, maybe more than them, but you're part of the show. Well, maybe here we have a bunch of interesting people, but worn out, exhausted by too much social life. They don't have much anything insightful to say anymore, but they must speak to others, so they repeat themselves. And they turn themselves into caricatures of themselves.
I suppose that Steiner may be more aware of this than Marcello (maybe because he's older, and getting worn out as well?), which would be one of the reasons he commits suicide and kills his beloved children. There is no way to lead a pure, untainted life with others (this is probably only one of various reasons, too. Even if we've seen the disquietness of Steiner in his party when he tells Marcello not to envy him, we don't expect this. This makes Steiner much unknown to us who thought we sort of knew him (like Marcello?). Which is good. It's only fake characters that we can completely know). And his fears are justified, too. I mean, look at how his death is showed. I don't know if you knew it was him (some spoilers about classics are unfortunately widely spread), but I didn't get it, and thought first it was just some mere odd event Marcello had to cover as a reporter. It's only after a moment you understand who killed his children. If you hadn't seen Steiner before, you'd take his personal tragedy as you take the "MAN KILLS HIS CHILDREN AND COMMITS SUICIDE" headlines in the newspapers. His tragedy is bastardized as an everday odd event.
As for the lenght... Well, I won't say I didn't sometimes watch the clock wondering how long this lasted. But I wasn't really bored by the movie ; I mean, at no point I considered it wasn't worth watching the rest, and it had started at past midnight. And I'm thinking I should have recorded it because some of the scenes remain strongly and I'm feeling like watching it again.
As for no characters you feel empathy for... Well, I did have some for Marcello. Marcello would like something more than there is in his life, maybe greatness, but he can't find it. He wastes his time. Maybe one can comprehend this without great care if those aren't personal concerns to him, but many of us know some of Marcello's problems.
Of course, the way the movie is done doesn't allow much empathy. Fellini does remind you you're watching a show, you're out there with swarm of photographers. Depth is mostly hinted, but strongly so.
When it comes to the sound editing, I didn't notice because I was too angry at the subtitling.
Anyway.
I wish we could all agree on these two rules :
- When something is highly praised by many people, there is usually something to it. The "Emperor New Groove" syndrom hardly exist.
- It is very possible for someone intelligent and sensitive not to like very good things. Some things touch some people, others can leave them completely blank, if the sensibility's too different, for instance. This doesn't mean the thing itself is not good, nor that the viewer is retarded.
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steverogers23
19 years ago
As for no characters you feel empathy for... Well, I did have some for Marcello. Marcello would like something more than there is in his life, maybe greatness, but he can't find it. He wastes his time. Maybe one can comprehend this without great care if those aren't personal concerns to him, but many of us know some of Marcello's problems.
Hmmm... I can't see having any emotional ties to Marcello- He was pretty much an A$$. Steiner at first I felt a little for and then I thought about it and you know what he is even more of an a$$ then Marcello was. He left his wife alive so she could suffer with the thought of her children murdered by the man she I assume loved. Hell her life is messed up completely now. He should of killed her too. OK I guess I have a little empathy for the Steiner's wife who had all but 5 mins of screen time in a 3 hour film
Even if we've seen the disquietness of Steiner in his party when he tells Marcello not to envy him, we don't expect this. This makes Steiner much unknown to us who thought we sort of knew him (like Marcello?). Which is good. It's only fake characters that we can completely know). And his fears are justified, too. I mean, look at how his death is showed.
hmmm... OK Either Steiner is an intellectual or he is not. Either he is "fake" or he is "real". There are no in-betweens in the movie. Marcello is the closes to gray and he is as fake as a Milli Vanili though out the whole movie. There is no gray in this it wasn't written for gray areas in the "fake" and "real" department. If he isn't "real" the plot loses all meaning. Steiner doesn't kill himself if he is fake. Which brings it back to my point, which is that Steiner, is actually a "fake." This ruins the whole plot. The story no longer works if you don't believe Steiner and I don't believe Steiner.
"Real"- The person who knows who he is/ he is not pretending to be someone he is not
"Fake"- The person who is pretending to be something there not i.e. Marcello on the other hand is lazy playboy. He is as fake as a 3-dollar bill. He acts suave and cool but when it comes right down to it he aint. Just look at him with sylvia he doesn't have a clue. or when he is with his dad and meets his other girl on the side. His dad is the charmer and he just sits there even the girl tells him that he is a bore.
When it comes to the sound editing, I didn't notice because I was too angry at the subtitling.
what was wrong with the subtitles? Do you speck Italian and found a word or two was off? That is hardly enough to get angry about.
- When something is highly praised by many people, there is usually something to it. The "Emperor New Groove" syndrom hardly exist.
- It is very possible for someone intelligent and sensitive not to like very good things. Some things touch some people, others can leave them completely blank, if the sensibility's too different, for instance. This doesn't mean the thing itself is not good, nor that the viewer is retarded.
I am not saying Fellini is bad just not great. I don't think this movie should have the prasie it gets- I am meaning the prasie as a great movie. Fellini as I pointed out had a lot of good points as a director visually a lot of inventive stuff was going on however not really in Vita and even 8 1/2 is not turely ground breaking Fellini was just more main stream then the others everything from the story to the mind altered state between dream and reality to visual shots where done before that film- it has fellini's mark on it but it is not original.
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