Does God Exist?
Does God Exist? I think he does, maybe. Any thoughts?
shareI don't see how you can accept the existence of God when the first few pages of the Bible are demonstratably false. The world was NOT created in seven days. From that point on, everything in the Bible becomes suspect.
shareTo be fair, shy of fundamentalists, most religious leaders will tell you that taking the Bible's stories at their face value is akin to missing the forest for the trees.
That said, in regards to the original question...
Well, as several people have already said...that's really for them (the one who first started this thread, I mean) to decide.
Everyone's gonna have a different answer, cause, even when people are in agreement on the matter, their reasons will likely be different.
My take?
...This could wax some weird philosophic for a moment, so some of you may wanna go and get something to drink before reading.
OK...that said.
Is there a God? I'd say so, yes.
Is this the traditional sense of God as a benevolent guardian being that's supposed to protect our every move? Not so much.
The way I see it...first and foremost, is the fact we're never gonna fully be able to comprehend the total nature of the universe. It's simply too vast and we're far too little to take it all in. Hell, in the grand scheme, the collective influence of the human race hasn't amounted to an atom, much less a grain of sand.
To this end, I honestly think we were never intended to be able to process everything. In looking at the idea of the line between genius and insanity (and usually the fact that a fair number of the insane tend to be considered to be geniuses before they go into left field) it almost seems like insanity is simply taking in more than a human being is meant to process. The system kind of breaks (...or, perhaps it's a sign they've gained some piece of understanding beyond the comprehension of the rest of us...a bit Lovecraftian, but...)
ANYWAYS...where does God factor into this?
Basically, the way I see it, the universe as we know it is all set on a system of cosmic balances. Some of it's the classic concepts...good, evil (as they're perceived), order, chaos...the universe runs on the idea of these being kept in balance.
and that's what God comes into the picture for. God isn't a being per se (although I can see why people would prefer to personify it...makes it more of an approachable concept) rather...for lack of a better term for it, God's kind of like an OS for the universe. A force put in place to keep everything balanced out (cheezy as the line is - 'God's in His heaven, all is right in the world.')
This also addresses the idea of 'Why doesn't God intervene?' on two levels.
First...let's face it...we're a miniscule part in the grand scheme...to suggest this part of it get special attention for what amount to not even a blip on the radar in the universe...especially when we don't even know what else could be out there entirely...is kind of naive.
Also...again...the universe runs on balances...admittedly, sometimes the scale tends to tip towards 'suck' as it were...but at the same time, God just can't be counted on to keep leaning things towards good, just cause we'd want it to be that way.
...again, this is just my take on it. I realize it prob. sounds kind of strange...and likely a bit hippieish (...ironic, since I've NEVER seen eye-to-eye with those guys)
But...just offering another take on things.
...damn you Bergman...I hadn't even thought about this question too much recently until watching your movie... ...and I mean that damn you in a good way, may you rest in peace.
"Try as they might, human beings just can't be gods."
--Kai Shiden, Mobile Suit Gundam III
The world was NOT created in seven days.
Simple, logic and reason.
shareOkey dokey, my friend. Blessings :)
I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!
No problem, may your imaginary friend be with you ;)
shareWhy ridicule and attempt to offend others because of their beliefs?
I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!
Because is... funny!
shareHmmm... so you enjoy being mean?
I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!
Well, in all seriousness, this the internet. If you can't stand mean people, you should just stay away from it. And I mean it in the nicest way possible, because the world is not all rainbows, you know?
shareBelieve me, I have very thick skin and can take whatever the bad ol' internet can dish out but you didn't answer my question. Again, does being mean give you enjoyment?
I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!
You don't seem to have a very thick skin. But to answer your question, yes, a little.
shareWhy would you say I don't have thick skin? I haven't taken offense at all. Just genuinely curious. To what would you attribute your pleasure in being mean (hurting) to others to? Low self worth? Trying to make others feel your pain? Emptiness? Something else?Does it bother you at all that you like to hurt others? Again, genuinely curious. Also, thank you for your honesty.
I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!
[deleted]
Hmmm...
That's a bit of a deep question for a movie website.
Anyway, that's a question no-one can answer with any degree of accuracy as there is no proof either way, but if pushed I would have to say no.
ummm yes there is ask a person who had died and come back as i did when i was seven, you do not end once dead all i can say is where you go after is not a very pleasant place unless you like constant darkness in limbo and no memory of anything and it gets worse when you come back you will feel like nothing is real about life.
shareSorry, but NO
shareOf course your intelligence will always tell you that God doesn't exist. But, if you look to the Bible and know every little bit of story about Adam and Eve, go on and so forth, that is no less than an actual fact, and it plays a huge part in the whole mythology of the Bible. Now, before I get any deeper, let me state that I'm not trying to sound preachy in any of this, just simply stating what I think. And I advise those if they were to bare with me.
I for one, believe in the mythology of the Bible, not necessarily in the way it is written. However, I'll say from right off that I haven't read the entire Bible, but I assure that I've read quite enough to know just about all the important elements. (someday, I will get around to reading the entire thing. Until then, anyone here who has read the Bible fully or more then I have, can correct me) Anyway, as I was saying. When Adam and Eve gained intelligence, we lost knowledge and the vision of God. Before then, we could actually see him, touch him and listen to his voice. But now, we can't see him, or touch him. This also can prove the fact that there is a spiritual world, which can be around us, but we just cannot see it. I will not go into too much detail with the telling of the Bible - you just have to read it for yourself. Besides, I might get bashed or chewed at. Either way it probably doesn't matter, I don't feel like going through too much of it.
I believe that when I look at every given person, I see Adam and Eve's children. (although, I will quickly note that I do not 100% believe that their names were significantly Adam and Eve, perhaps they didn't have names, or even a language) But I do believe that everyone I look at in the world is my brother, sister, cousin - or bottom line: family. And I believe it to be very true, whether the mythology of the Bible is true or not, and even if I were to be an unbeliever, I think it would at least be a interesting and engaging read! I mean, I also believe that the Bible is, well probably the greatest story ever told! And sometimes I wonder if half the Atheists out there has ever even read more than 5 pages of the Bible. (lol, but I wouldn't quite say that includes me. I believe I've read at least 50 of the important pages of the Bible... and I've went to church just about every Sunday for a couple of years. As a reasonable person I believe I have become, I'm trying to be as honest as I can)
Anyhow, my whole point is that I believe the Bible itself can very well be "so called" intelligence, but maybe a different or in-depth kind. For one, it's not evidential. And if you were truly intelligent, you would know that not every giving thing in this world is "evidential" or maybe in other words; "something that always leaves a trail". For me, the intelligence that we know, blinds us for what and who we truly are, see and do.
Meanwhile, those are my couple sense and I hope you all had a share of it. I could be half wrong, but I tried.
Side note: I'm not 100% Christian, but I'd say I'm about 75%-80%. But I still have questions built up in my mind about it and expect to look for the answers to later in life, but lets just say that I pretty much have the important questions already answered. Like stated before by somebody else - "no matter what, enjoy your life while you can." And I've been pretty busy at that, and yes, more busy than to read the Bible, entirely. If God truly exists and truly loves me like I love him, if he understands me and I understand him, he'll let me live my life until I'm at least 60 - so then I can promise that I will have the Bible read entirely or majorly. Oh, and I also have a belief (from reading the Bible) that you don't have to go to Church every Sunday or read the Bible entirely in order to go to Heaven - you would be a fool to think that's what it's all about. Well, I believe it's not. But you still have to learn about it nontheless. I think it's all about being God's friend overall, really. You just have to ask God for his forgiveness and savior. Not to sound preachy, but you may ask, "savior from what? Sins? What sin???" Well, perhaps everything you've committed that is listed in the Ten Commandments, which I would think are very reasonable and unwanted sins to begin with, Christian or non-Christian, is it not?
Whether the Bible is reality or just a fantasy story, it's a very good story! Might as well give it a read or two.
I have my arms raised, my chin up, my heart filled, and my mind opened. Call me a lunatic, it'll be very logical of you.
[deleted]
How can you measure the percentage of your Christianity?
What are you in the rest of the percentage? Rastafarian, Shintoist, animist?
And what part of your Christianity is excluded in those 20-25 percent? Two Commandments? One of three persons? One or two sacraments? Several prayers per week?
"And sometimes I wonder if half the Atheists out there has ever even read more than 5 pages of the Bible."
I have, but not in the form of pages; only different chapters and verses, online. But well, here's the thing... Speaking for myself as an Atheist (a "weak Atheist", I might add; I doubt His existence but do not make claims against it, as I cannot know), I don't and never did consider the Bible to be a crucial or even mildly important part of anyone's lives. Try to keep this in mind before using that like "lol, the silly people probably haven't even read the book...", just like it's the one thing everyone needs to do and we're idiots because we haven't.
It's a book. We can all agree on that, can we not? And none of us can possibly even know if it's God's word or the word of a bunch of psychos or deceivers. Or it could be partly true; Jesus might have actually believed he was God's offspring/God himself, and he somehow made others believe in him, and so on, which inspired people to write about it. This reminds me of the verse/s about Aaron's sons; one of them (or both, can't remember) was set on fire because they/him acted against God's command. The way they wrote this was "fire came out from the presence of God and consumed him/them". It's possible that they got set on fire and the observers drew conclusions, no? That's just an example, though. Anyways, these things should be reason enough to not blindly follow it, I think. It could be true, yes. But there's so many possibilites behind the book itself. If it was written today, we'd be able to see how the world actually was, and we'd be able to laugh at the silly self-proclaimed "true" story. It was, however, written a long time ago, so we can't actually know the truth behind it. However, that also mean we shouldn't trust it "just because", either. Similarly, in the future, maybe Scientology is an accepted religion because it's ancient and they don't have proper info about its origins? Then it must be true...
Besides that, if we needed to know any of this, and if there was a God, we would most likely be born with the knowledge, would we not? I don't see a reason why we wouldn't. Free will? We could still have that. And besides (again...), we can't just run and fly off to the moon if we want to. Free will is a broken concept to begin with.
"Whether the Bible is reality or just a fantasy story, it's a very good story! Might as well give it a read or two.
That, I actually agree with. It seems very interesting, and I'm actually planning on reading the whole thing one of these days.
"Well, perhaps everything you've committed that is listed in the Ten Commandments, which I would think are very reasonable and unwanted sins to begin with, Christian or non-Christian, is it not?"
No...
"You shall have no other gods before Me."
...We're non-believers to begin with. This seriously seems like a way of saying "hey! Believe in the religon we made, no others." Sure, I'm fine with that. I don't believe in any of them anyways.
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image."
Okay, can't quite say this is necessary in my eyes.
"You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain."
Again, not necessary for me to follow.
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy."
Again...
"Honor your father and your mother."
Fair enough.
"You shall not murder."
Basic moral. In other words, reasonable enough.
"You shall not commit adultery."
Nothing wrong in my eyes. (Might have the wrong definition of it, though.)
"You shall not steal."
Basic moral. Reasonable.
"You shall not bear false witness."
I guess.
"You shall not covet."
No. I wish for whatever I want, thank you. Can you even control your desires?
I doubt any non-religious person would care too much about the Ten Commandments. Same with the Seven Deadly Sins; most of them seem based on personal biased. Really. Lust, a deadly sin? I can certainly think of worse things...
"I'll die unless you kill me!" - Ethan Hunt
<<It's a book. We can all agree on that, can we not?>>
Kind of, sort of. It is indeed many pages bound by covers and can sit on a shelf, true. But it is actually a collection of writings that were approved of by a group of people for inclusion in a cannon a few hundred years after Christ (so they say). Several popular writings were omitted from most Bibles and do make for interesting reading. Google Nag Hammadi and you will likely find web resources to read some of these writings. It really is vastly complicated when you start looking into it, but a great insight into humankind. Personally I think it is unfortunate that we need a word to describe NOT believing in something, and then we make it sound proper by capitalizing the first letter (Atheist).
"Ryu-san, you don't quite look your character's age."
"Kind of, sort of. It is indeed many pages bound by covers and can sit on a shelf, true. But it is actually a collection of writings that were approved of by a group of people for inclusion in a cannon a few hundred years after Christ (so they say). Several popular writings were omitted from most Bibles and do make for interesting reading."
Ah, yes. That's right. Like the Book of Job, which is a part of the Bible, was supposedly written 2000 BC?
"Google Nag Hammadi and you will likely find web resources to read some of these writings. It really is vastly complicated when you start looking into it, but a great insight into humankind."
Thanks for mentioning. Will do.
"Personally I think it is unfortunate that we need a word to describe NOT believing in something, and then we make it sound proper by capitalizing the first letter (Atheist)."
Despite having used the word myself, I have to agree with you. I am really just going with the flow. As someone on YouTube (...yeah...) mentioned, it's like giving someone a title for NOT having a certain hobby.
At the same time, though, not believing means a lot in a world full of believers. It sets our lives apart in many ways.
"I'll die unless you kill me!" - Ethan Hunt
and who exactly wrote the bible?
shareGod is just as man made as superman or Luke skywalker. Nothing more.
share[deleted]
There's about 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% chance the christian god is real but probability some sort of a of god existing is closer to 1-5%
Somebody here has been drinking and I'm sad to say it ain't me - Allan Francis Doyleshare
[deleted]
The funny thing about the universe, to paraphrase a great author, is that it's big enough to hold anything and eventually does.
shareWell, I´m not an atheist (though I was for a long time) and not an agnostic. I´m not religious too. I can say that I simply ignore this subject in my daily life, I don´t pray or make decisions based on religious beliefs, even though religions is a subject I´m interested in for its anthropological characteristics.
I just think that the existence (or non-existence) of God is something menkind will never be able to know for sure, so it´s a matter of what each person believes.
But for the sake of this discussion, Stephen Hawkings, the greatest phisicist of our time, (he actually ocupies Newton´s chair in the University of Cambridge) once said that God is the smallest part of second before the Big Bang, because everything that happened after that can be explained by science.
Also, a good reading material about this subject is Immanuel Kant´s Critique of the Pure Reason, in which he argues through reason both in favor to the existence of God and against it, to come to the conclusion that "we do not have the slightest ground to assume in an absolute manner", and that the idea of God cannot be separated from the relation of happiness with morality as the "ideal of the supreme good."
That is something to think about.
-- E-music is my lifestyle. Electro is my heartbeat. But film is what I breath! --
I´m not an atheist (though I was for a long time) and not an agnostic. I´m not religious too.
Dear przgzr,
let me teach you a lesson straight from the dictionary so you can remember the meaning of these words:
Atheist: someone whose position is the affirmation of nonexistence of god
Agnostic: someone that believes that the existence of god is impossible to prove or disprove.
Religious: someone that follows a religion
So, as you can see, it is possible NOT to be all of these things at once.
I could go deeper on this but I´m not really in the mood.
I just think it´s sad that all you had to say about my post, where I gave my opinion, the opinion of the greatest phisicist of our century, and suggested and quoted reading material from one of the greatest philosophers of all times.
-- E-music is my heartbeat. But film is what I breath! --
I wrote a longer post below, as an answer to another poster. You can read it if you are interested.
Being atheist, agnostic or religious makes a triangle that covers most of possible human relations to the matter of God's existence. There are some variations, some say that antitheists are separate category, but being one of them means that you either fight against God (what implies that you admit He exists, otherwise it would be insane to fight, and that makes you religious) or you fight against religion (assuming that you believe they are wrong because God doesn't exist, so you are atheist). In both cases it is disputing if antitheists form a separate category.
Then, maybe somebody doesn't care at all. As this is one of the most explored and discussed thing in the history of humankind, it is hard to find a person that really has no opinion at all. And if so, such a person wouldn't appear on this board having no reason to do it.
Finally, there is one more possibility to be something apart from atheist, agnostic or religious. You can be God himself. However, I don't believe that people who claim themselves to be God can approach Internet from the institution they have been put in.
Well, I don´t affirm that a God or Gods don´t exist in an absolute manner, I don´t think God´s existance or non-existance is impossible to prove, though I think it´s highly improbable, and I don´t follow any religion, though I have my own notion of spirituality, so I´m spiritual but not religious.
And I don´t fight against any religion, on the contrary, I find them very interesting. If you´d speak Portuguese (I´m assuming you don´t), I´d give you a link to my blog so you could read my posts about religion and transcendece.
-- E-music is my heartbeat. But film is what I breath! --
By "religious" I had in mind accepting any concept of God (I don't have a blog but if you've read my post I was mentioning you can have idea how different can - or even should! - the concepts of God be from those offered by formal religions).
shareBut for the sake of this discussion, Stephen Hawkings, the greatest phisicist of our time, (he actually ocupies Newton´s chair in the University of Cambridge) once said that God is the smallest part of second before the Big Bang, because everything that happened after that can be explained by science.
where here Hawkins says that there is no God and he is an atheist http://www.cnet.com/news/stephen-hawking-makes-it-clear-there-is-no-god/