MovieChat Forums > Rope (1948) Discussion > Would you put this among Hitchcocks best...

Would you put this among Hitchcocks best?


I personally would. It is one of his most ambitious films. The characters are 3 dimensional, the script is cracking and the story is so Hitchcockian. My 3rd or 4th favorite of his.

Cheers

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Absolutely. This film has so much going for it. It blows me away every time. It definitely begs to be seen more than once, and I always notice new bits of symbolism.

Which reminds me, I should probably update my thread on symbolism in this movie

"I feel all the time like a cat on a hot tin roof!"

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You should. Your other thread was really insightful, never would have thought of the tempo counter or the maids dress.

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Certainly! Infact, 'Rope' is, in my honest opinion, the only Hitchcock film that can be placed in the top hundred films of all time. The rest of his films are too ''Hollywood'' and sub-par compared to the likes of Bergman, Fellini, Herzog and even Ford and Truffaut. He is a good non-art director most of the time but 'Rope' feels like a great work of art.

"Namu-myoho-renge-kyo"

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What a pretentious comment. Hitchcock may not be your taste, but no one in their right mind would agree with you that all of his films other than Rope are "sub-par".

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[deleted]

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well, it's not on par with some of Hitch's masterpieces like "Vertigo", "Rear Window", and "Psycho." It's more like a warm-up, but then again, this is Alfred Hitchcock, one of the true geniuses of filmmaking, so even his warm-ups are very good.

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Maybe not sub-par, but relatively normal as far as Hollywood norms are concerned. As opposed to Rope, which is a film that was and still is completely out of the ordinary. Then again, associating ordinariness with lack of quality isn't very wise, considering that's the serial killer Brandon's view in the very movie the above poster is trying to defend.

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I know it's been more than six months since you posted that, but I have to say I disagree.
Maybe his films seem normal to hollywood today, but when they were made, they were much ahead of their time... In fact, Hitchcock got a lot of crap for films like Psycho, because they were actually disturbing for the standards of the time.
If Hitchcock's films seem ordinary now, it's probably because he influenced many directors that work today.
Then again, taste is like ass, everybody has their own. (That's an expression in my country :) )

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Yeah, it's my number two Hitchcock film, only behind Psycho.

Wath it thomething I thaid?

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Top 3 for sure

Even the most primitive society has an innate respect for the insane.

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No, of all the Hitchcock movies I have seen this is my least favorite. I gave it a 6/10.
The others ones that I have seen are The Vanishing Lady, Strangers on a Train, Vertigo, North by Northwest, Psycho, Rear Window, The Birds, Dial M for Murder and Notorious

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Well its definitely better than TVL, SOAT, The Birds, Dial M for Murder, and Notorious...

I also think its better than the overrated Psycho...but I'm more understanding to those who might disagree with that one. I think its right there with Vertigo, North by Northwest and Rear Window. So maybe I should have said that Rope is definitely top 5 in my book

Even the most primitive society has an innate respect for the insane.

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This guy knows what's up. I think Rope is Hitchcock's best, followed by Rear Window, North By Northwest and maybe Vertigo next.

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I appreciate the support...and sometimes I think Rope is actually secretly my favorite.

Even the most primitive society has an innate respect for the insane.

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Sorry to say but I am not really into this movie.
I've done Vertigo, Rear Window, Psycho, North by Northwest and this one. Rope came last

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I just saw it for the first time, and I can't believe that I hadn't heard more about this film before now. I found it very well-paced and highly entertaining. It's one of the best Hitchcock films I've seen, though I also loved Shadow of a Doubt and North by Northwest too.

Don's going to fix it. He knows what that nut means to Utz and what Utz means to us.

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Yup, at first I had it placed far from my favorites. Then I watched it again, and again, and then again, and I placed it 14th overall! It is now my 7th favorite Hitchcock film.

Live life in love, for to love is to live!

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I agree. I think its a great film. I also think this is one of Hitchcock's personal films. I think an incident in his life pushed him to make this film.

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Second tier (nos. 11-20) at best.

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To me, Hitchcock's most masterful film will always be Psycho. For better or for worse, it created a new genre.

That being said, if he had cast somebody other than Stewart as Rupert (somebody suitable for the part), Rope would probably be a close second favorite.

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"If he had cast someone other than Stewart as Rupert (somebody suitable for the part)".

Yes it´s a little hard to imagine Jimmy Stewart preaching about a birthright to kill - even if not truly in earnest. Perhaps even Cary Grant woulda made a good Rupert as he proved to be able to project a certain vaguely sinister vibe more than once (Suspicion, Notorious) - and that´s the kind of suggestion completely missing in Stewart´s straight-arrow everyman with a folksy drawl. The kind of suggestion that could have reasonably cast a spell over these two wannabe-Overmen and mistake their mentor for someone he wasn´t.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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James Stewart took the role only after Cary Grant turned down the role. And I thought Stewart did a wonderful job.

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Yes it´s a little hard to imagine Jimmy Stewart preaching about a birthright to kill - even if not truly in earnest. Perhaps even Cary Grant woulda made a good Rupert as he proved to be able to project a certain vaguely sinister vibe more than once (Suspicion, Notorious) - and that´s the kind of suggestion completely missing in Stewart´s straight-arrow everyman with a folksy drawl. The kind of suggestion that could have reasonably cast a spell over these two wannabe-Overmen and mistake their mentor for someone he wasn´t.


Wasn't James Mason (ironically, mentioned by name in the film) considered for the role? Mason would have been far better than either Stewart or Grant, because he was good at playing refined, charismatic, and vaguely sinister characters.

Stewart in contrast couldn't help but hide his "aw shucks" persona in spite of his best efforts.

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I know James Mason was one of Hitchcock's choices for leading role in The Paradine Case (1947). He may have been one of Hitchcock's choices for Rupert Cadell. I thought James Stewart did a great job playing the role.

Many People say that James Stewart is miscast, because Screenwriter Arthur Laurents said he was the wrong choice for the role.

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Many People say that James Stewart is miscast, because Screenwriter Arthur Laurents said he was the wrong choice for the role.


I thought so long before I heard what the screenwriter said about Stewart. To me, Stewart, who can't play anything but "folksy," simply isn't convincing in the role of a cynical Nietzschean intellectual and corrupter of youths. You half-expect him to say "golly gee" after every sentence.

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SPOILERS

I know what you are saying about Stewart. For a while, I thought he was miscast. While I was researching, I found out that Hitchcock was happy with James Stewart's performance. This surprised me. if Hitchcock didn't like someone's performance in his film, he usually mentioned it in interviews. And he was happy with Stewart's performance. Arthur Laurents said James Stewart was miscast, because he was under the impression that rupert in the film and rupert in the play are the same.

In the play, Rupert is only 29 years old. And he is a wounded world war 1 veteran. He wears glasses and walks with a stick.

Hitchcock and Hume Cronyn created a totally different adaptation for Rope. Many of the characters and ideas in the play were removed. And they created new characters like Janet Walker, Mrs. Wilson, Mrs. Atwater, and Kenneth Lawrence. And they created a new Rupert. Rupert looks like he is around the age mid 40s. And he is the former teacher of Brandon and Philip. In the play, he is the contemporary teacher of both murderers.

Anyway, Here is an interesting information.

A Hitchcock fan named Ximmerlaik gave me all of these information.

In the interview with Tom Snyder, Hitchcock said that he regretted shooting an assassination scene in his 1940 film Foreign Correspondent.

Here is the link to the interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7GKr_pCYZA&feature=related

At about the 7 minute mark, Hitchcock talks about the assassination scene in Foreign Correspondent. He says, "I only regret one thing that I ever did in a film that was copied." He then describes the scene, concluding (at almost precisely the 8 minute mark) by saying something like, "And I heard it the assassination was done in Terra Han, two years later."

But I never heard about the place named Terra Han. It may have been Tehran.

Ximmerlaik told me this too "I also suspect Hitchcock hearing about this had a huge impact on Rope. Especially in terms of Jimmy Stewart's character, Rupert. The two murderers (mostly Brandon) adopt Rupert's macabre sense of humor about murder but then take it a step further and actually kill someone, in real life. It's as if Rupert is a stand-in for Hitchcock himself and the murderers are those who have taken his amusing ideas and turned them to dreadful purposes (like these assassins of "Terra Han"). This would especially make sense in terms of Rupert's final speech, which is uncharacteristically sincere -- Hitchcock was dealing with his own regret through Rupert's words. That's my idea anyway."

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That´s all interesting, Sonysunu, but doesn´t make Stewart one bit more believable as a corrupter of youth. He´s clearly seen as a mentor by the two guys which implies his relationship with them must have been a lot more complex and murky than just casually introducing the idea of superiority and moving on. It must have been an idea Rupert himself had seriously wrestled with in order to make it sound so compelling for others. And Stewart´s simply too plain and straight forward to convey any sense of conflict that must have existed within him (although I generally agree with Edward De Vere about Stewart, I must still point out he was good in his other more deviant role in Vertigo, convincingly portraying obsession and hurt).




"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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Excellently put, franzkabuki.

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[deleted]

I cut Stewart more slack as his character seemed to me to be that kind of intellectual who would step over society restrictions for the sake of pure philosophic argument.

Davids father's morality shows that he thinks its inherently dangerous to talk about it even when joking and even Rupert is taken aback by the vitriol that starts coming out in inerst from the other guy.

So in that sequence you have three types, the one who can think outside morality, the moral man set in his ways and the one who has discarded his morals. Actually in that scene Rupert is left out as then it becomes a war on real morality between Davids father and whatshisname who both take Rupert's joking too seriously from different sides.

So I guess it could be a nod to how philosophy has an idea but is then taken over by others and invariably fought over even to the extent of war. It seriously looked like it could have kicked off at that bit.

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I agree. I love Stewart, but I think Grant or James Mason would've been more convincing.

As someone said earlier Grant could bring a sinister edge to his parts, and had the intelligence need for the sleuthing. With Stewart while you can see he'd be able to identify the crime, you're never really in doubt he'd do the right thing in the end. With Grant you might worry if just for a few moments that he'd side with Brandon. Yet although Grant is my personal favorite of the three, I think Mason would've been perfect in this role. Mason would've been able to carry off the Nietzchean intellectual brilliantly, whereas Grant had a little too much of the common man about him, than the academic. I also think one might be crying out for a love interest with Grant. Mason could be sexless.

Back to the original question though, and not just because I think Stewart was slightly miscast, but I just don't think this is in the highest echelon of Hitchcock films. Certainly not up there with Rear Window, Notorious, Rebecca, Thirty-nine steps, North by Northwest, and Vertigo. I know Rope is supposed to real-time etc, but I think it could easily have been carried out for another 10 minutes and the suspense would have been greater. For example I think Hitchcock could have spent longer on the build up to David's killing.

Very good film, but not great.

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Absolutely!! I just love how Hitchcock manages to mask almost all the cuts in this movie

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I would not. I rated it a 7. Too talky and didn't hold my interest. Well
as it has a high rating here, I'm in the minority. I liked John Dall much
more in Gun Crazy. James Stewart was a highlight in Rope.

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I rate it around a half point below babyfir77, at 6.5-- maybe lower. Talky indeed. I thought Dall was just okay, I thought he delivered his lines rather self-consciously. And Farley Granger was... awful imo. Jimmy Stewart was enjoyable enough, but I didn't find him cast well in this particular role, for the reasons discussed in another thread.

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I haven't seen every Hitchcock film so I'm far from an expert but I prefer this to more highly rated ones such as Rear Window, the Birds, Vertigo, North by Northwest.

I'd say it's in my top 3 Hitchcock films along with Dial M for Murder and Psycho...

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I think I'd say it's his fifth best film--at least it's my fifth favorite Hitch film, and I've seen most of his oeuvre. My ranking would go like this:

1. Vertigo
2. Rear Window
3. Shadow of a Doubt
4. Psycho
5. Rope
6. The Birds
7. Strangers on a Train
8. North by Northwest


Not sure how I'd rank the rest of them off the top of my head...

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After watching it the first time, I was as certain that I'd just seen one of the worst films by an important director that I ever had, but perhaps I was too hard on it. Jimmy Stewart didn't work at all for me as the prof, and I think both Dall and Granger were wanting in conviction, but perhaps the innovativeness of the technique was enough to carry it.

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I most certainly would. I just viewed it again last night and it's one of my favorite Hitchcock films.

I have not seen all of his films but have seen most of them.

My favorite Hitchcock films are:

The Birds

Psycho

Rope

Strangers On A Train

Lifeboat

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