Go city by city and flatten as much as he can... then leave, taking the two Donbass provinces with him and dare the world to do something about it. That's got to be his plan... nothing else makes sense.
Looks like I was right except for the "then leave" part. He's not only not leaving, he's likely to expand into Moldova as well.
His plan is simply scorched earth with his nuclear arsenal..
shareThat doesn't make sense either
shareI don't think he would use nukes but chemical attacks could be on the table if things really go south.
His plan was not to fight a drawn out gorilla war against a highly motivated force. While doing tremendous damage (Ukraine will never be same) thousands of Russians will die for no reason, other than Putin's ego.
Is any historian going to say 'Yes Russia did what it had to do: fend off invasion from Ukraine and restore the country to prominence it once had, before the collapse of the Soviet Union.'
Why use all those resources to flatten Ukraine then leave except for those two? He's on a mission. Crimea was just warm up. Someone on the inside needs to turn on him. Pressure from within.
shareThe thing is, I don't know how he's planning on holding ALL of Ukraine. It seems unachievable and insane, and is almost guaranteed to escalate out of control if he tries. If all he wanted was the Donbass he could have had it right now with little more trouble than Crimea. Nevertheless, he appears to want more... and yet wanting more is not the act of a sane person. Maybe I just don't want to contemplate that he isn't sane.
shareHe didn't line up these forces for only those two. But he underestimated Ukraine and overestimated his own army. Now he's stuck, so he has to double down until they break. There'll be a remaining resistance after a bloodbath, but he'll be able to declare victory and install a puppet.
share"but he'll be able to declare victory and install a puppet."
Can he, though, without a huge occupation force? He's gonna need not just soldiers but police, bureaucrats, and technicians to rebuild all the stuff he busts up, etc., all while dealing with an insurgency and a tanking economy.. sorry, but that doesn't sound very rational to me.
Who said it was rational? I just said that your original theory wasn't rational either. You don't sack Ukraine then walk away when your stance has been to pine for the USSR days. And I don't think he gives a shit about the people and the rubble, only that a new leader will be under his thumb instead of independent or part of NATO.
shareI guess what I'm driving at is that in trying to make rational sense of what he's doing, the more twists and backflips I do to make it all fit, the less and less rational the man sounds.
shareHis plan is taking East and South of Ukraine and either (1) Integrate them in Russia or (2) Create a buffer 'East-Ukraine' state.
Those areas are pro-Russian, which means an 'East-Ukraine' state would side with Russia instead of NATO. This way he would create an state acting as a buffer for any attack from the NATO in case they tried to invade Russia.
He's definitely not leaving without a healthy hunk of Ukraine under his belt. He needs at least enough to link up with the Russian enclave of Transnistria in Moldova.
shareEven though the media is making it like he's "losing" or facing insurmountable odds, it actually sounds like he's achieving what he set out to do (whatever that was). There are no reports of his troops retreating or pulling out of whatever key territories they wanted to control.
I wish we had an honest media reporting what was actually happening, because right now the media is falsely making it seem like Putin is on a mission to destroy Ukraine, which obviously isn't the case since he isn't bombarding Ukraine with airstrikes and explosive barrages. They're also trying to make it like he's trying to occupy every inch of the country through military might, which also isn't the case.
Based on what's actually happening, it seems like the Russian troops are systematically attacking key targets and only moving toward specific locations.
Some Ruskies on YouTube were saying that Putin is only attacking U.S., owned biolabs and specific military installations, which sounds a lot more plausible to me than the ridiculous narrative being put out by the mainstream media that Putin is trying to genocide Ukraine.
These wildly divergent opinions about what Putin wants is worrying in itself.
shareThat's actually a really good point.
To be honest, I can't actually find a solid source on WHAT Putin actually wants.
What the pro-Putin media is reporting Putin wants doesn't make any sense (liberating Ukraine?) and what the Western media is reporting doesn't make any sense (destroying/usurping Ukraine?).
This has to be one of the most ridiculously confused media depictions of a "war" in recent times.
Ukraine is the gate to invade Russia. Any successful attack against Russia must go through Ukraine, which is a plain that facilitates troop movement and have mild temperature during the summer and not excessively cold during the winter.
For Russia, having Ukraine as part of the NATO is a deal-breaker. It would be like for US having Chinese troops and bases in Canada.
Putin has been saying out loud that Ukraine entering the NATO is a risk that goes beyond acceptable for Russia. The statement is reasonable, since any successful attack against Russia coming from Europe would go through Ukraine. Why looking for some hidden secret motivation when the stated one is absolutely logical? Sometimes a hat is only a hat.
Putin has been saying out loud that Ukraine entering the NATO is a risk that goes beyond acceptable for Russia
Why looking for some hidden secret motivation when the stated one is absolutely logical? Sometimes a hat is only a hat.
Ruskies are saying that Putin is only attacking US owned biolabs and military installations...
Meanwhile thousands of civillians have died, entire apartment complexes have been bombed and destroyed (images available), and you think that sounds more plausible. Looks like someone is being successfully brainwashed by Russian propaganda.
Poor Putin, being villanized by the mean western media.
Actually, it's as possible as saying he's trying to destroy Ukraine. Both are conspiranoid narratives. The difference is that western media takes its own conspiranoid one seriously.
Putin is trying to create either add East-Ukraine to Russia, or create a 'East-Ukraine' buffer state (the east part of Ukraine is pro-Russian). According to Ukraine, there has been about 400 civilians killed until now (which means the real number will probably be lower). We're talking about a country-wide open war that has reached the capital and main cities. US kills more people with drones in a year than the current death toll in Ukraine until date.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/2/24/russia-ukraine-invasion-casualties-death-toll
"UatAboUt US kilLinG mUslImS"
I don't remember US invading and trying to annex a free, indepedent, democratic country.
Putin doesn't want to destroy Ukraine, he wants to take it for himself. Proably by planting a puppet president in there, and turn it into a fascist state like Russia and Belarus.
Why would NATO have ever invaded Russia? Why would anyone want the piece of shit country filled with ignorant Russians?
shareIn case Russia sides with China in the future. If you wanna invade Russia coming from Europe, the easiest way (by far) is through Ukraine.
shareThe whole reason NATO was made is to keep the Soviet away in the first place. Many people forgot about this because they already achieved that in 1991, but that's actually the original cause of NATO.
They should've disbanded NATO when Soviet fell. By keeping NATO alive, the target moves to Russia because what else would they do? They had already done their task. Soviet no longer exists.
In fact, in the late 90s Russia asked to join NATO. But NATO rejected them. Why? Because keeping the Soviet away is still fundametal to NATO. It only means that NATO considers the Soviet is now Russia.
If you look at the history you will see why NATO was not disbanded.
Let me give you one big reason: nukes. Shall I repeat? NUKES. Eussia kept the nukes, kept attacking and invading neighbors, kept threatening neighbors, kept meddling in the internal affairs of other countries.
The world has moved on past the Soviet Union but the Kremlin hasn't.
Putin is an old KGB officer, his obsession with "Great Russia" and "West wants us dead" as a reminiscence of his Soviet past is visible from the Moon.
It's not about NATO or whatever, that's NOT the main reason. That's the main pretext.
The main reason: the oil and gas reserves discovered in East Ukraine and in the Black Sea.
Maybe it’s my paranoid nature getting the better of me but I always thought that first & foremost in the back of Putin’s mind that his plan was always us (U.S.). I’ve thought that the Ukraine was a smokescreen for him coming after us who are the big prize. He’s probably itching for us to get involved by sending soldiers to fight against the Russians in the Ukraine so he can turn around & say to his people, “The Americans are on our border(s) & are going to attack” & then launch a nuclear strike our way. Think it’s insane? It can happen & he probably want’s the least bit of provocation out of us to pounce.
Would he fear our retaliation? Don’t be so sure. He could be of the mindset, if our missiles get though they get through, if the Americans strike back they strike back, whatever happens, happens. He very well could be thinking of that, all or nothing in his book & that makes him truly the biggest threat we’ll ever face.
That's not his plan. Russia would be embarrassed on a wholesale level in a conventional war. The kill ratio of U.S warplanes to Russian planes will be 100-1.
That means Russia's only chance would be a nuclear war, and even the deluded Putin knows that nobody wins a nuclear war.
If he's got any sense left, he'll be horrified at the world's reaction to his evil plan. If sanctions remain, things in Russia will return to the glory days of the Soviet Union where a loaf of bread was a luxury. Good job Pute - the world once again hates Russia.
What it boils down to at this point is either Putin goes (somehow, someway) or the whole shithouse goes up in flames.
share> That means Russia's only chance would be a nuclear war, and even the deluded Putin knows that nobody wins a nuclear war.
The Götterdämmerung Syndrome, as with most violent pathologies, is more often seen in men than women. It is often interpreted as an example of narcissistic rage. Those who feel it are usually privileged and entitled, and they become extremely angry when their privileges and sense of entitlement are being taken away. If then their choice gets reduced to admitting they are in error or destroying the world, a reduction they often feel to be the case, the obvious choice for them is to destroy the world; for they cannot admit they have ever erred.
Robinson, Kim Stanley. The Ministry for the Future (p. 298). Orbit. Kindle Edition.
Putin has secured a name for himself as the Hitler of the 21st century, a complete and utter ugly irony for a Russian. I hope the Pentagon has some psychiatrists on duty to explain this is a very unstable, depressed and isolated man and they had better give him a way out or he could easily just say F-it and really take it out on the world and go for broke with nuclear threats or realities.
Putin is a threat to world survival, and it doesn't look like there is anyone for anyone in Russia to check him or remove him.
There's a lot of truth in what you say.
Unfortunately.
Only two option really exist, 1) someone in his inner circle takes him out. or 2) the US does a full and complete first strike and nukes all of Russia before their mad man in charge can do it. I don't expect number 1 to happen because someone as paranoid as he appears to be (just look at the distance on the table when he meets people) is going to have anyone near him that could kill him. I would suspect he probably still have food tasters to insure no one poisons him, and probably uses a geiger counter as well because he knows radiatative poisoning works since he's had it employed in the past.
So the only logical option is to nuke the whole of Russia sooner than later.
You're insane.
share"a complete and utter ugly irony for a Russian." hmmm, really? Hitler was a chorus boy compared to Stalin ...
shareNo disrespect strntz, but reread what I was saying as I did address your point before your reply. “Nobody wins a nuclear war”. What I said: Putin: “if our missiles get though they get through, if the Americans strike back they strike back, whatever happens, happens.” He very well could be thinking of that. “Winning” not even come into it. Just by wiping a couple of our cities/states off the map may be all he wants to secure his place in history. God knows what a psycho thinks, but the scenario your described most likely is not how he’s playing this out in his mind.
shareNo, I got your point, which is why I said he would avoid a nuclear war if he's got any sense left. I suspect he does and I also suspect he wishes he could undo the attack given the worldwide outrage.
But yes, people with egos like his that get backed into a corner would sometimes prefer to save face anyway they can, even if it meant millions of people would die.
Just by wiping a couple of our cities/states off the map may be all he wants to secure his place in history.
Putin is getting old though, so win-lose might not be a big concern. I used to think he was a sane, calculating villain but the more I learn about him, he seems to be another insecure brat.
shareHe didn't expect it too be so difficult. Problem is Putin was never a military man he was in the KGB so no real understanding of how military battles are lost and won.
What he has now down however is pretty much insured that there internal problems in Russia, either someone takes him out of the country slogs down into the toilet for a year or two before he is still pushed out of power. It isn't going to happen because of the Ukrainians kicking his ass it will be because the economic sanctions are going to put the hurt on the Russian people, many of whom have only known the prosperity of the country moving forward, now that it is being cut off like North Korea it will be a recipe for chaos.
Putin's plan is to stop NATO expansion by killing ukrainian people, and arming ukrainian people to kill each other. US plan is to expand NATO by arming ukrainian people to kill each other and russians. EU plan is to send weapons to ukrainians to kill each other and russians. Zelensky's plan is conscript ukrainians so they get murdered and to join EU so he can fuck ukrainians for 30 years. Media's plan is to amplify this bullshit patriotic feeling of ukrainians so they go out and kill russians, each other and get murdered. Chechens' plan is to rape, murder and loot. Ukrainian peoples' plan is to survive. Most russian soldiers' plan is to go home alive and with all limbs.
shareblockade the cities - allow civilians to leave - destroy all the die hard nationalists/nazi.
Seems quite simple - same strategy as the one used in Syria.
^Bootlicking Russo-Bot Alert!
shareAsskissing Ami-Bot detected!
sharestooge (Common Sense NOT detected)
shareCommon sense is not that common...
What enables you to detect common sense? Your own lack of it?
I certainly don't look for it on MovieChat nor do I find it.
shareNot even in your own posts? I am, well, not surprised...
shareYou think calling Ukraine the Fourth Reich is common sense. Most of the rest of the world considers it a sign of mental illness. I think most people on here can set both of our posts side by side and make the correct determination as to which of us is mentally ill and which is sane. I have no worries at all. I may say it a bit profanely at times, but then again you hide behind a phony veneer of civilization while at the same spewing the most poisonous and murderous filth in the politest of language.
share"Fourth Reich" is YOUR wording... And believe me: I was never ever interested in convincing "most people on here". The majority of people is not that smart. That's why we are in this situation.
shareGood news - humanitarian corridors have been established. After the civilians leave, the destruction of the nationalist nazis begins.
So what are Russians? Selfless internationalists?
shareAccording to an Al Jazeera report, Azov is a far-right all-volunteer infantry military unit, comprising of ultra-nationalists who are accused of harbouring neo-Nazi and white supremacist ideology.
This makes the Ukraine military the only one in the world to incorporate a far-right militia. It is important to note that the regiment’s insignia is reminiscent of the Nazi Wolfsangel.
https://www.firstpost.com/world/russian-military-operation-puts-the-spotlight-on-ukraines-neo-nazis-what-you-need-to-know-about-them-10419921.html
Ukraine is the only country in the world to have a nazi regiment within its military forces - so you'll have to give Russia some slack in that regard.
And yet Russia is the country behaving like Nazi Germany. I'll judge Ukraine and Russia by what they actually do, if it's all the same to you. In any case, Putin is claiming that the ENTIRE country and government of Ukraine is Neo-Nazi, which is clearly not the case. All you've got evidence for is (at most) one unit in a huge country of 40 million people. Not fucking good enough... try again.
shareYes, agreed.
So here are the actions of the Ukraine.
https://news.yahoo.com/african-students-fleeing-ukraine-report-racial-discrimination-at-borders-234429880.html
African students have reported encountering ugly instances of racism from some civilians and members of the Ukrainian military as they try to escape the country.
https://greekcitytimes.com/2022/03/01/greek-in-mariupol-fascist-ukrainian/
With Russian forces besieging Mariupol, in which 120,000+ ethnic Greeks live, SKAI news spoke with a Mr Kiouranas who lives in the city and exposed that Ukrainian “fascists” are killing people for trying to leave the city.
"African students have reported encountering ugly instances of racism from some civilians and members of the Ukrainian military as they try to escape the country."
Why are they trying to escape the country? Hmm.... what could the reason be? Wow, people are panicky and in fear of their lives and ugly instances happen in large crowds. This is your retroactive justification for violating international law and mass murder. Try again, asshole.
"With Russian forces besieging Mariupol, in which 120,000+ ethnic Greeks live, SKAI news spoke with a Mr Kiouranas who lives in the city and exposed that Ukrainian “fascists” are killing people for trying to leave the city."
Wow, your source is a right-wing Fundamentalist Orthodox website that was in the tank for Putin since before the invasion even started. Try again, asshole.
And you can bet he worked out this plan while Trump was in the white house
shareSure did. Tramp tried to destroy NATO. Tramp took America out of the OPEN SKIES TREATY! Russia followed suit. Tramp REMOVED the sanctions Obama adm. placed on Russia!!! Tramp pulled us out of the Iran deal. I mean there is so much more I can't name at the moment and there is so much more we don't know what else tramp did!!!
share"Tramp REMOVED the sanctions Obama adm. placed on Russia!!!"
https://www.factcheck.org/2019/03/meme-misleads-on-russia-sanctions/
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/09/25/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/