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When it dies and goes before Jesus for judgment


Will Jesus refer to it as a he or a she?

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If she receives salvation, I think she'll be referred to as something along the line of "beloved".

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No, that thing already has a seat in the furnace.

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Actually no. Salvation includes forgiveness of ALL sins. Past, present and future.

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I'm not Christian but I think people must repent of their sin and if she doesn't see her sex change as a sin she cant be save

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Yes. Salvation requires acknowledgement that one is a sinner and receiving His forgiveness. It's not requires to list all of them, as we sin (and will continue) our entire lives. His forgiveness encompasses all of it. The repentance is of unbelief.

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"The repentance is of unbelief."

Repentance is not of "unbelief". Repentance is of sin.

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Yes and no. Name me one repentant person who never sinned again.

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Its not possible to never sin again but it is possible to live righteously. The born again believer will always be penitent when it comes to sin and will seek righteousness and hate evil as they grow in sanctification meaning they will sin less and less. See 1 John 3:4-10.
So yeah, repentance is of sin not unbelief. Biblically it doesn´t make sense for a new believer to be repentant of unbelief since they by default cannot believe. 1 Corinthians 1:18, Romans 8:7-8, Matthew 13:11,16-17.

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Where does it say in the bible that a sex change is a sin?

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God assigns each person their gender in the womb. To change your God-given gender would be sinful, because you are opposing what God intended for you, even though it is not specified in the Bible. Same deal with porn, it isn´t specified in the Bible but everyone knows it is.

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If someone is born with a facial abnormality or a heart defect, do you think it is wrong for them to have corrective surgery? By your reasoning, someone could say that is the way God intended them to be.

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That is a false equivalency. Your gender at birth is not an "abnormality or defect" as much as the world wants you to think it is.

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But the Bible does not forbid someone changing their gender. You and others are reading in to the Bible an interpretation that is not there.

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Your gender is defined by God. So yes surgically changing it would be sinful. Gender roles are also defined by God. See Deuteronomy 22:5

"You and others are reading in to the Bible an interpretation that is not there."

And you are using the argument from silence fallacy.


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Do you follow all of the laws and commandments in Deuteronomy? I guarantee that you do not and should not. Some of the commands in the Old Testament were intended for those people at that time and were never intended to apply to all people for all time. Ideas of gender and gender roles have changed a lot over time and in different societies. Christians should be following the teachings of Jesus (not Old Testament law). Jesus told us to do to others as we would have them do to us and taught us to love our neighbours as we love ourselves. Following Jesus's teaching leads to acceptance and love of our transgender neighbours.

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"Do you follow all of the laws and commandments in Deuteronomy?"

No because not all laws are the same. Some are moral, civil and ceremonial. Jesus did not come to abolish the law but came to fulfil it. Meaning that ceremonial (animal sacrifices, special diets) and civil laws could be done away with because he is the ultimate atonement for sin. But the moral law has endured. In some cases he even raised the stakes. Ie Hating your brother = murder, looking with lust = adultery.

"Ideas of gender and gender roles have changed a lot over time and in different societies"

Yes because societies are moving further and further away from the gospel and are becoming more and more depraved. God´s morality never changes. Sin 2000 years ago is still sin today.

"Following Jesus's teaching leads to acceptance and love of our transgender neighbours."

You can love your neighbours by telling them the truth.

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"You can love your neighbours by telling them the truth."

True,but your idea of truth may not actually be the truth. You very well could be wrong on this. In spite of what you want to believe, there is no actual evidence that someone being transgender is a sin. You are interpreting the Old Testament law in the way you want, to make it say what you want it to say. Christians are to follow Jesus. That is the bottom line and Jesus never said anything to indicate that being transgender is a sin.

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Jesus never said homosexuality is a sin either and yet it is. I don´t need to make it "say what I want it to say", since it is clear from the OT as well as the NT. Im guessing you are a "red-letter" Christian which is a false Christianity. Cherry-picking Jesus´ words from the four gospels only does not make you a Christian.

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Jesus never existed. It is a fairy tale.

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Why are you not saying that god had Page go through the trials of appearing to be female before granting, via the miracle of modern medicine, the gift of the male gender?

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Correction, BillySlater says that god assigns gender. That is a ton different than god saying it. So it looks like you get an imaginary point for pretending to be god.

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Psalm 139:13 "For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother's womb. I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made."

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Isn't Pslam 139 a prayer by David? It is not intended to be god's word as far as I know.

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"All scripture is breathed out by God". 2 Tim 3:16-17.

Look at what Paul wrote about his contribution. 1 Corinthians 15:10 "No, I worked harder than all of them— YET NOT I, but the grace of God that was with me."

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The "I'm speaking in god's place" is something used to support their position, right or wrong.

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Well you incorrectly inferred, I am "pretending to be God". Clearly there is Biblical support for God assigning gender. Just because I believe all scripture is Godly breathed, doesn´t mean I think I am God.

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No, I said you claim to speak for god.

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"So it looks like you get an imaginary point for pretending to be god."

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I love this response.

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Why would she be referred to as "beloved"? Are you implying that God is going to use gender neutral terminology when referring to her?

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Not at all. Beloved is (I hate to use the term since it's been co-opted by the left) all inclusive.

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Oh I didn´t know that. Thanks.

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Jesus is a myth. You might as well ask what Obi Wan Kenobi will think of Elliot Page after death.

Besides, don’t Christians believe it is God who judges you when you die? Isn’t Jesus just his son from a virgin mum, or something equally as believable?

In any case you are doing some pretty good judging lest ye shall be judged there yourself. What would your mate Jesus have to say about that I wonder?

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Since you think he's a myth he'd say good job on the judgement my son this idiot will burn with Elliot

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Would he now? Good to know you have a direct line to the J-Man and can speak for him. You’re like totally a prophet dude. Rad.

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I am an ordained minister in the church of the dude, I have a direct line to the Lord of Dudes.

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🤙

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The Dude abides, good Brother.

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Can I burn with Ellie instead oh mighty Father???

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Jesus is a myth.


Is this a fact or an opinion.

As far as the rest of your post, you might want to find out what you're talking about BEFORE you talk about it.

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I might, and then on the other hand, I might decide your suggestions mean fuck all to me and just carry on, on my merry way.

I guess we’ll both live in either event.

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Yes indeed. I was making the suggestion so you don't come across uninformed. Just trying to help. 😉

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It is a fact, by definition:

myth = a traditional story, especially one concerning the early history of a people or explaining some natural or social phenomenon, and typically involving supernatural beings or events.

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Actually no. There are plenty of historical references/citations, spanning centuries, including eye witnesses.

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I'd like to hear about these eye witnesses.

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Haha, my thoughts exactly. “Eye witnesses”can also attest to seeing the Loch Ness monster, and a lot more recently than 2000 odd years ago… sooo… 🤷‍♂️

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Right?!

Christians also say that the gospels in the Bible were eye-witness accounts as well. They don't seem to know that those books of the Bible weren't written until at least 60 - sometimes a HUNDRED years after he would have been crucified. What was the average lifespan of people 2000 years ago? Not very long I've read.

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My favourite part is when Jesus was alone in the wilderness talkning to God (i.e. himself) and someone who wasn't alive for decades or centuries to come was there and wrote it down.

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Google is your friend. Just because you don't like history doesn't make it untrue although you leftists are trying to erase it.

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The burden of proof it's on you. I guess you have none ...

And no, saying that it happened because the bible says it happened it's not valid. The bible is NOT proof.

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Except for I don't care what you believe. I have never stated that my beliefs are absolute fact and I don't ridicule others for their beliefs. My belief is faith based as is atheism (and every other existential belief). Ridiculing other's beliefs or stating that something is fact when it can't be proven is the sign of an immature asshole.

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"stating that something is fact when it can't be proven is the sign of an immature asshole."

Didn't you just state "Actually no. There are plenty of historical references/citations, spanning centuries, including eye witnesses."????

Ok, you immature asshole.

Atheism is not "a belief". Atheism is the natural stance, of not accepting some stupid shit without evidence. It's closer to science than belief.

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Learn to read. There are historical references and eye witness. You may not like/believe them, but they're there. Sorry but atheism IS a belief and as you put it, stupid shit. Atheists BELIEVE, not know there is no God. Enjoy your faith.

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"There are historical references and eye witness." - nope they are not - most are controversial at best, and they are NOT FACTS.

"and eye witness." show me those people that ARE eye witnesses and have lived 200 years.

We don't believe that there is no god.

We argue that there is NO proof for an existence of a god so the existence of a god is unproven and scientifically not probable. Big difference.

You need to prove the existence, not the non-existence.

If I tell you there's a ghost under your bed (I might even claim that I've seen it - eye witness) you would look at me like I'm a crazy person and would ask for proof.

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I don't need to prove anything. I have never said it is a fact that God exists. I haven't seen you say that God doesn't exist so maybe you believe as you wrote which I fully respected until you threw out the "stupid shit" remark but there countless atheists who claim as fact that God does not exist. Your ghost analogy doesn't address my argument. This is better. I tell you I believe there's a 50lb gold brick in the closet. You tell me you believe there isn't but we have found it impossible to open the closet. Who's right? Answer: We don't know.

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You analogy is flawed: we do know for a fact that gold exists. So it's possible that a 50lb gold brick would be in a closet. But we don't know for a fact that god exists. Or gosts.

"I don't need to prove anything. I have never said it is a fact that God exists."

You said that there are historical evidences and eye witnesses to the existence of Jesus. I wasn't asking you to bring proof for god existence but for Jesus existence, that YOU said it's proven.

I just argued that no, the existence of Jesus is not proven and that anything we have in that matter is highly controversial and circumstantial.

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C'mon! You don't bat an eye at historical citations going back centuries and even millennia for that matter even though there isn't empirical proof that they are true. Countless numbers of these cannot be 100% verified. They hinge on writings, etc., of which there's a chance that they are fictitious. Could the citations about Jesus be fictitious? Yes. Could they be true? Yes. No more circumstantial or controversial than a myriad of other accepted events, persons, epochs, etc.

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"o more circumstantial or controversial than a myriad of other accepted events, persons, epochs, etc." if you mean like Hercules, Zeus, etc I agree.

If you mean like Cesar there have been a LOT more than few writings on religious texts.

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There are countless more than Cesar and Zeus, etc.

Read the link I posted. There are 132 SECULAR citations in this list, alone.

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I did, I would not go over all of them.

Even if they are secular, the most of them, if not all, are decades or hundreds of years after Jesus' death and there are plenty or uncertainties of those writings, there are clear indications that at least some of had been modified to "support the narrative".

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Like I said, just because the citations don't align with your beliefs, does not make them invalid. Enjoy your faith.

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https://robertcliftonrobinson.com/2019/05/26/the-record-of-secular-history-and-jesus/

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Gonna comment on just the first one, don't want to spend too much time on this shit:

"Ambrosius Theodosius Macrobius c. 395-423: A Roman Praetorian prefect, who vividly describes crucial events that are described in the New Testament, validating important historical facts about Jesus, the Messiah."

So a guy writes about Jesus 400 years after the events. Noice.

And he talks about Herod giving the order to kill all infants, an event that most Herod biographers do not believe occurred. And the Murder of the Innocents is ONLY present in the bible.

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Gonna comment on just the first one, don't want to spend too much time on this shit


Yes, because your mind is closed, which I knew from the beginning but I give your research skills an A+. You read 1 out of 132.

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1 that proved not to be reliable.

Do I need to go trough all 132 to make up my mind? do i need to go trough 132 lies to prove that they are lies or at least unreliable?

One is enough.

But here it is on 2: Tacitus was born 50 years after the death of Christ, his record is more of a problem with Christians as a sect during Nero's years and mot likely his passage about Jesus is based on Christian traditions, seems just like a detail from a backstory.

"Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus"

Plus, there are scholars that argue that the part about Jesus is not authentic.

So, again, circumstantial and controversial.

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Again, like countless other "accepted" ones and again, your mind is closed so I'll leave you to your faith.

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Is not my mind that is closed, your the one that's brainwashed to believe this kind of bullshit.

You know what: muslims have a big upper hand in this, Mohammed is historically attested. So maybe you should convert to the true religion and the true one god, Allah

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Sorry bro but what you believe is stupid bullshit and I would consider you brainwashed but you'd have to have to have something to wash.

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Bro, think about this:

WHY are you christian and not muslim or taoist or budhist??

Because you were born in a Christian family in a Christian society and you had been conditioned (brainwashed) to believe in whatever your peers and elders believed in.

If you were to be born in a different region of the world you would have had a totally different view on religion and god.

Some might convert from one religion to a different one but stil there will be an underlying idea that was planted there, the belief in a god.

You really don't realize this???

Yeah, I have been brainwashed to rely on facts and truth, not bullshit and lies. You are right :D

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Bro, think about this:

Why are you a bigot?

Not that it matters, but I was raised in a family that was completely devoid of religion.

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So your definition of a bigot is "a person that doesn't accpt lies and bullshit". Ok

Yeah, but you had been raised in a Christian society, with Christian peers and so forth.

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Caint hep ya, bigot.

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There's plenty of evidence and scholarly consensus that Jesus Christ was indeed an actual person.

There is also Bithynia's Pliny's letter to Emperor Trajan regarding Jesus and the Christians, along with Suetonius Tranquillus' De vita Caesarum's historical record of Jesus, and Josephus' Antiquities records of Jesus.

Besides that, there are no credible scholars who have disproved Tacitus' statements, especially since he did not like the Christians.

Regardless, it's just a multitude of other references from completely different individuals, including the fact that Paul the Apostle took the teachings to Athens, Greece, with the Stoics adopting parts of Christian theology to their own teachings, as made apparent in Epictetus' The Enchiridion, since the Stoics and the Cynics were the only two Greek schools of philosophy to hear out Paul.

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"evidence".

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I'm assuming you hold the same sort of skepticism for all of Herodotus' "evidence" as well?

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I do hold the same sort of skepticism for all of Homer's "evidence" as well.

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The difference between Homer and Herodotus is that we take Homer's writings as fiction, whereas people project Herodotus' writings as history.

Regardless, all forms of written or personal accounts of history, as told by those from that era, with no video or photographic evidence, must be taken for what they are.

In that regard, the accounts -- as cited above -- are worth no more less than any other historical accounts from every other time period before said photographic evidence could be construed.

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Btw: "Herodotus has been criticized for his inclusion of "legends and fanciful accounts" in his work. Fellow historian Thucydides accused him of making up stories for entertainment. However, Herodotus explained that he reported what he "saw and [what was] told to him"

"It is on account of the many strange stories and the folk-tales he reported that his critics have branded him "The Father of Lies."[3]: 10 [17] Even his own contemporaries found reason to scoff at his achievement"

"Yet it was in Athens where his most formidable contemporary critics could be found. In 425 BC, which is about the time that Herodotus is thought by many scholars to have died, the Athenian comic dramatist Aristophanes created The Acharnians, in which he blames the Peloponnesian War on the abduction of some prostitutes – a mocking reference to Herodotus, who reported the Persians' account of their wars with Greece, beginning with the rapes of the mythical heroines Io, Europa, Medea, and Helen"

Maybe you didn't chose the best example ...

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". Herodotus reports another version, in which Medea and her son Medus fled from Athens, on her flying chariot. They landed in the Iranian plateau and lived among the Aryans, who then changed their name to the Medes."

Right, SO accurate ... Flying chariot, much historian.

"Other critics of Herodotus pointed to his fanciful accounts of giant ants in India that dig up gold, flying snakes in Arabia and long-tailed sheep whose tails are supported behind them on wheeled carts. "

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That's exactly why I chose Herodotus, because some of his accounts are taken as history, while others are discarded.

But consensus is made based on what can be verified and what can't.

Those who could verify to some extent the history documented by Herodotus is what's considered true, and the rest not.

The comparison is valid because in this case, various other historians, scholars, and politicians have multiple documentation of the history of Jesus Christ, yet it's still disputed to this day.

Although, outside the more fanciful tales told by Herodotus, you don't hear his name or his accounts of seemingly corroborated events brought into question in the same vein.

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"various other historians, scholars, and politicians have multiple documentation of the history of Jesus Christ, yet it's still disputed to this day."

Not quite, there is NO record of Jesus from during his life, all records are decades or hundreds of years after, most likely citations from Christian sources.

And yes, it's exactly like Herodotus: "However, Herodotus explained that he reported what he saw and what was told to him". Tacitus most likely reported on what was told to him by Christians and what's the origin of it, it's in no way a direct historical record - it cannot be when it's made 100 years after Jesus's death ...

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Not quite, there is NO record of Jesus from during his life, all records are decades or hundreds of years after, most likely citations from Christian sources.


First of all, your entire argument is begging the question.

Second, that applies to every biographical account for every past civilization of people who were not recorded by second or third-hand scribes/witnesses, such as Diogenes Laertius or even Tyrtamus. In fact, you could make an argument that neither of them existed either since there are no second-hand accounts from when they were alive chronicling their existence.

Additionally, there were no telegrams, social media, television, or syndicated news, so the only way people knew about things back then were decrees or word of mouth. Jesus was not royalty, so all of his exploits were spread via word of mouth, which takes a while to travel (especially when travel was limited). Hence why he wasn't written about during his life by anyone other than the apostles, and later discussed after news spread about his crucifixion.

Also keep in mind that many people back then were illiterate and so the average person wasn't blogging the way people do know (regardless of grammatical capabilities).

In fact, just barely 200 hundred years ago less than 12% of the population could read; so that percentage drops even lower nearly 2000 years ago, meaning unless you were a scribe or, again, royalty, you likely weren't jotting down everyday happenings:
https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/economics/how-was-life_9789264214262-en

Additionally even with the telegram and news, it took nearly two decades after the first car was made before cars became more wildly available to the public, so imagine how long it would take for news to spread WITHOUT telegrams or news? Heck, people like Franz Kafka, Silvia Plath, van Gogh, and William Blake, all only became famous posthumously, and you won't find many works written about them while they were alive, again owning to the aforementioned factors above.

This is also why philosophers who weren't wildly sociable back during the height of Athens weren't written about much or chronicled in history; in fact, that applies to anyone who either didn't have manuscripts that survived various collapses or had scribes following them around like Epictetus. Yet on that note, I don't see people claiming that people like Cheirisophus or Archilochus are myths despite no testimonies or accounts surviving of them when they were alive?

What's more is that ALL the citations related to Jesus are from anti-Christian sources (again, scribes/politicians/royalty), which makes zero sense to your point. Read the citations. All of those people hated Jesus and the Christians. Their only mentions was about squashing their uprising after Jesus was seen as a martyr.

Tacitus most likely reported on what was told to him by Christians and what's the origin of it, it's in no way a direct historical record


Anti-Christian politicians who spearheaded and asked for advice on how to punish, execute and genocide Christians made record of Jesus and the Christians as pro-Christian propaganda?

Your argument isn't making sense.

Tacitus hated the Christians, and was responding gleefully to how they deserved the punishment they were receiving.

Pliny was also asking for advice from Trajan on how to persecute the Christians. It only verifies that most leaders during that time hated Jesus and the Christians, and from their writing championed his crucifixion. This was all part of a systematic persecution of Christians during that era:
https://theconversation.com/mythbusting-ancient-rome-throwing-christians-to-the-lions-67365


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You gave no real evidence of the existence of Jesus. Everything you wrote is circumvoluted logical gymnastics to reach a conclusion that you want.

And btw you adding Herodotus in discussion hurts your argument.

Or are you arguing to take 100% of what Herodotus wrote like "truth"???

So the persecution of the Jews by the Nazi proves that there was no Jesus? Because Jews believe so and your conception that simple persecution of the jews the proves that.

"Anti-Christian politicians who spearheaded and asked for advice on how to punish, execute and genocide Christians made record of Jesus and the Christians as pro-Christian propaganda?" How is recording an oral tradition "pro-Christian propaganda"???

So if I write "the old vikings believed in the old norse gods, Odin, Loki, Hella, etc" it means I'm writing pro Odin propaganda???

Your logic is so twisted.

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You gave no real evidence of the existence of Jesus. Everything you wrote is circumvoluted logical gymnastics to reach a conclusion that you want.


Historical records are evidence.

Or are you arguing to take 100% of what Herodotus wrote like "truth"???


Re-read what I said about Herodotus.

So the persecution of the Jews by the Nazi proves that there was no Jesus?


Non-sequitur.

So if I write "the old vikings believed in the old norse gods, Odin, Loki, Hella, etc" it means I'm writing pro Odin propaganda???


Non-sequitur.

Your logic is so twisted.


You introduced a bunch of strawmen and non-sequiturs.

Please DIRECTLY address the statements I made and the questions I asked.

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Not sure if that's true (i doubt it is) but that's not important.

Myths, again - by definition, can be based on historically events/people.

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It's a fact.

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Nope.

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Yup.

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Lighten up, Francis.

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That’s Saint Francis to you, thank you very much.

Please say three Hail Mary’s and self flagellate for six days in repentance. God bless you 🙏

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I'm not Catholic but feel free to beat yourself at any time.

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Jesus was also trans

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Religion is man-made. If there is a God, it's likely smarter than us and is more likely to take pity on her. I think she's mentally ill and kind of an asshole (Chris Pratt comments), but it doesn't mean she deserves to burn in Hell.

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Oh look, it’s another one of those ‘loving’ Christians!

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Christians are no different than you.

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Christians certainly ‘profess’ to be different than non-Christians. Aren’t you saved and we are lost, aren’t you a new creation in Christ. Changed by the blood of the lamb?

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I am indeed but I'm the same reprehensible sinner as I was before.

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So I guess Christians shouldn’t be expected to be an example of the things they believe?

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They can be "expected" to be a lot of things but salvation doesn't cure sin. It forgives it.

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Oh nice, how convenient.

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Matthew 11:29-30:

29 "Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 30 For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

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John 10:27 "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them and they follow me". What part of following Jesus would include living a sinful, worldly life?

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Like I sad before, name me one saved person who never sins.

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Not possible to be sin free since only Jesus is perfectly sinless but the difference between an unbeliever and a believer is night and day.

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True.

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"salvation doesn't cure sin. It forgives it."

Wait what?!

1 John 3:4-10. Jinx is right. The born again sinner is a new creation. 1 Corinthians 6:11 "And such were some of you".
Were being past tense. And Colossians 2:11 "Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ," And 1 Peter 1:2 "who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit, to be obedient to Jesus Christ ..."
And Romans 6:17-18 "But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. "

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The new creature is sinless in God's eyes (only) because every sin, past, present and FUTURE has been forgiven.

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Can a believer "love sin"? Sounds like you are an easy believism advocate.

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Why does one sin?

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Romans 7:24-25

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

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Paul is saying the good is God and the bad is me. This isn´t a justification for living a worldly (sinful) life.

James 2:14-26.

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I'm not saying it's justifiable because it's not. I'm saying no one is capable of living a sinless life. If we were, we wouldn't need Jesus. I don't know about you (actually I do) but I'm in a constant battle with my flesh, as well as every person who's ever lived and quite often, I lose. The fact is, people, including the most "righteous" sin because they want to.

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"I don't know about you (actually I do) "

What do you mean by that?

So if you are in a constantly losing battle with your flesh, how can you say you have genuinely repented? Repentance is about not wanting to sin anymore.

"The fact is, people, including the most "righteous" sin because they want to."

Depends on your definition of righteous. If you mean those made righteous by Christ, ie "born again". I don´t think anyone born again "wants to sin".

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Again my question: Why do people sin? Why do you sin?

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You answered a question with a question.
I am curious to know what your answer to this is.

"So if you are in a constantly losing battle with your flesh, how can you say you have genuinely repented? Repentance is about not wanting to sin anymore."

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Because it's our nature to sin. Paul says the same. Do you sin? If so, how can you say you've genuinely repented?

John 1:7-9

7 "But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.…"

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I would suggest you (and anyone, for that matter) listen to this. In fact, I challenge you to do so and let me know how it impacts you. He give an in depth, completely scriptural, logical and easy to understand analysis of forgiveness. It changed my life! 🙂

https://www.livinggodministries.net/living_god_ministries/radio_archive/forgiveness.htm

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Heard a little bit on "license to sin". He sounds like a false teacher tbh.
A direct quote: "No one is going to sin any more or any less if they know the Lord Jesus has forgiven them of their sins..."

This is completely at odds with scripture.

1 John 3:6 "No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen Him or known Him".

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Did you listen to it?

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You keep evading the question. Do you sin and if so, why do you sin? If you say you do not sin, you're a liar.

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"You keep evading the question. Do you sin and if so, why do you sin? If you say you do not sin, you're a liar."

I sin because I am not perfect only Christ is but I am not a slave to sin like those who are not born again. I might let a bad word slip or react in anger to something every once in a while but I don´t live a worldly life of sin like most unbelievers. I don´t watch porn, I don´t masturbate, I don´t swear .I might let the s word slip in shock to something very rarely but I don´t use the F word or make lewd jokes. I don´t do drugs or smoke or get drunk. I dont blaspheme.

I am not saying any of that out of pride but you asked and I am obliging and I don´t get any credit for any of that and nor do I deserve any because me being sanctified has nothing to do with me and all to do with God.

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He also tries to wash his hands of his false teachings, "If you are using my teaching to justify your sin, this won´t go over well with the Lord".

That´s an understatement. Maybe he didn´t read James 3:1 which says teachers will be judged with greater strictness.

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Absolutely Jinx, the love your fellow man thing goes completely out the window if your fellow man is in any way different from what you consider normal. It’s so hypocritical it’s funny.

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It’s pretty annoying that Christians seem absolutely nothing like Jesus who was really wonderful and accepting of others.

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It's always comical when atheists wanna have a discussion about something they don't believe it.

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It's always comical that Christians think we should be just fine with having them treat us like trash.

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Two different beliefs, both are angry

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My belief doesn't tell me that those who don't believe the same things I do deserve to burn for eternity.

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A. Pretty sure you inserted yourself.

B. Pretty sure no one said that.

C. If you don't believe, why do you care?

D. Why do atheists feel the need to attack someone's faith? No one's faith is going to be rattled by the rhetoric of some anonymous internet character. All it really does is make you look like a jackass.

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A. Uh, yeah I inserted myself on a thread that was rejoicing over the judgement and torture of a person using the Christian religion. I didn't start a thread harping on Christians, it's the other way around so, sorry, I know you want to be the victim, but it doesn't work in this case.

B. So no one commented "No, that thing already has a seat in the furnace."?

C. I care because it affects my world on a daily basis. Christianity is something I have to endure because I live in a country dominated by Christians and they don't live and let live. If they didn't use every opportunity (like a movie chat forum of all places) to condemn non-believers or people they think are icky, I wouldn't care about them.

D. I feel the need to speak up against Christianity because of the hurt and destruction it has caused to myself and people I care about. I'm not the one spreading my views on Atheism and telling you that if you aren't an atheist, that the worst, most painful thing imaginable is going to happen to you. It really makes you Christians look like assholes when you delight over the suffering and pain of others like this thread does.

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First and foremost, I don't know why anyone took this thread seriously. We're talking about one more screwed up individual. A Hollywood elitist who delights in thumbing their nose to, whomever.

Who's the victim now, buttercup? Seriously. You judge the many based on the actions of a few. Yeah, some Christians are assholes but most atheists are too and without provocation. Judgment is God's place, not ours. It would do a lot of people a lot of good to read their Bible again and look inward, rather than outward. It's supposed to help us live a better life, not give people excuses to judge and mistreat each other. You're simply fighting wrong with more of it.

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"Who's the victim now, buttercup? Seriously."
I don't know, you were the one whining about being picked on, oh no, I'm sorry, you said 'attacked'.

I am judging the FAITH not the people, the faith is messed up, all it does is separate people between US and THEM.

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You are confused. I don’t go searching for victimhood. Bullshit from anonymous idiots on the internet does not offend me. I simply asked why you feel the need to attack people’s faith.

You’ve got that backwards. It’s not the faith that’s the problem, it’s what people do with it. Of course ignorance never stopped a liberal from passing judgment.

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I can't say that people who profess to be followers of Christ aren't like the example Jesus set in the Bible? It's a real shame that your faith can't seem to stand up to an honest observation, instead, my saying that is an attack to you. You don't seem to have a problem with the original post making a joke out of someone being burned for an eternity.

It IS the faith that is the problem if that faith tells you that you are saved and others are lost and deserve to burn for it.

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cue The Book of Mormon (the show)

Have fun in hell!

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If there is an afterlife, why would Jesus meet everyone who dies? Doesn't seem like the judgmental type and he's probably relaxing with Elvis, Jimmy and Janis.

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Gender is a physical world construct. Here on Earth our "souls" are contained and utterly confined in these bags of water and meat, with a gender to propagate the physical existence of the race.

If there is a biblical God and our souls all move on, there will be no gender at all.

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Hmm, not true, some sins are almost exclusively confined to one gender (while others to the other).

Like rape ...

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Without getting into whether there is a biblical God (another topic), it would make more sense that a sin is a sin and would be a sin of the heart or soul, regardless of the specifics.

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According to your religion (if it is your religion) some sins are more sins than others.

So the specifics are VERY important.

If we look at the old testament genders are even punished different for the same sin ... for a man is not considered sin to have multiple wives while a woman must be a virgin when she marries the one and only husband.

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I don't have a religion (which is why I specifically avoided that topic and honestly have no interest in arguing that), but if there is a biblical God, then it only makes sense that sins would carry different weights. To torture someone to death would be a greater sin than (say) fantasizing about banging your neighbor's wife like a temperance drum in my opinion.

But even that is getting off the subject. The question whether some sins in heaven or hell would be based on gender doesn't make any sense (like rape in your example). We must have gender for biology reasons here on Earth, but in an afterlife, being restricted to gender doesn't make any more sense than our souls being restricted to bags of meat.



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While it might make sense to you, it actually doesn't, at least to me.

If some sins are confined to one gender then how can you compare that sin with the sin of others?
And clearly of one gender commits one sin then the punishment is for that sin, even if the sin is "of the soul" - if that person would had been the other gender then there would had been no sin.


How the genders are treated in the old testament (godly way): https://www.religioustolerance.org/ofe_bibl.htm

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If some sins are confined to one gender then how can you compare that sin with the sin of others?


What sins specifically would you say are confined to either gender (not wanting to open up an argument about hundreds of different genders...)?


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As I was saying: rape.

As I was saying: according to the old testament having multiple sexual partners: males are allowed to have a lot (even wives) for females is a big no no and a sin. It's a sin for a female to not be a virgin bride, this is not valid for the men.

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Understood, but my position as an agnostic who isn't confined to a book written a couple of thousand years ago is that if there is a God, then gender outside of the biological necessity of a physical reality makes no logical sense and of course, gender specific sins make no sense either.

Let's say for the argument that there is a God. That leaves pretty much two realms: the physical one we know here on Earth and another with no physicality at all. The fact there are biological genders on Earth doesn't project that genders will follow us to the afterlife. For what reason would there be genders of souls?

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If we accept for the argument that there is a God ... we have no idea what that means or if there are souls, or heaven, or hell or how everything after we die works.

"For what reason would there be genders of souls?" I wasn't arguing that the soul in itself would be gendered, but the outcomes of the lived life and the "punishment" would be gendered, as being based on the experienced life.

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