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Corryveckan45's Replies
Even though I'm one of those people who often finds Lucy's behavior selfish, I think I've mentioned before that I feel very sorry for Lucy in the "Lucy Goes to Monte Carlo" episode.
The poor woman really doesn't do anything wrong. She tries again and again to obey Ricky's edict that she not gamble. She keeps telling the people at the casino that the money she wins accidentally isn't hers, keeps pushing it away and tries to give it back. Then, when Ricky catches up with her and tells her she can keep it, she loses it all!
She also appeared on several episodes of "Ozzie and Harriet."
A friend of mine who has seen them says he can't stand her on that show.
Thanks for the correction, PJ. I thought in one of the episodes (the one with the Club Election?) she was referred to as "Miriam."
In any case, how is the viewer suspposed to keep the hames straight when the show itself can't make up its' mind (see: "Lillian"/"Carolyn" Appleby") lol!
Betty Ramsey was a little pushy, as I recall, confirming Ricky's initial negative impression of her. Still, I think she meant well. She obviously enjoyed taking charge of Lucy's desire to furnish her new home and just took it for granted that a "star" of Ricky' magnitude didn't need to worry about the expense, especially after all the savings Betty had arranged for the furniture.
I think in one episode (the one where Lucy thinks the neighbors are giving the Ricardos a surprise housewarming party), Lucy refers to Ethel and Betty as "my two best friends," so Betty probably made a favorable impression pretty quickly.
She also played the plane passenger on the trip home from Europe who thought that Lucy had done away with her other son, "Cheddar"/"Chester", a hunk of cheese Lucy purchased for her gorgon of a mother.
I don't think Miriam was in the show very much, was she? Though LUcy's comment about her cackling laugh ("I've been waiting 10 years for you to lay that egg!") is great.
Anyway, you're right that they contributed to the laughs with their catty behavior. I mentioned Lucy and Ethel because they're the central characters.
I like the scene when Carolyn carries the two babies out to put them in the playpen and carries Little Ricky under her arm!
It might have been fun to see Carolyn in some of the Connecticut episodes. As Lucy's primary "frienemy," she could have added some spice to Westport.
I was thinking the same thing. Lucy and Ethel, with their greater tendencies to be jealous/catty about others, might look worse by comparison.
Yes, it would have been best for Mr. Eaton to write the chapter himself, but since Mr. Dorrance had already contacted Mr. Eaton, and knew why Mr. Eaton wanted to use Lucy's novel I thought it was better for him to let Lucy know in advance what Mr. Eaton had in mind.
Gary is right, of course, that the onscreen result is funny and Lucy is paid back for her catty comments about Ricky, Fred and Ethel, but I would think a publisher would have more class than to, in essence, "throw Lucy to the wolves."
Good point.
Mr. Dorrance especially should have handled Lucy with Kid Gloves, since he'd already made the enormous error of sending her a letter accepting her novel, and Lucy's response when he told her he'd made a mistake was so classy. He should have at least called her to explain what Mr. Eaton wanted to use her novel for, rather than telling Lucy to call him and being told it was to be used as a textbook example of how not to write a novel.
Agreed. I've never liked the way the publishers handled this. Even though she took catty swipes at Ricky and the Mertzes in her book, with this outcome I felt genuinely sorry for Lucy in this one.
I like the "Europe" episodes. The one set in Scotland isn't great but at least it's a dream sequence.
Question: Lucy says she wants to go to Scotland to look up "her mother's relatives," but if they were "MacGillidudys" wouldn't they be her father's relatives? A small point, to be sure, but I don't think we ever learn her Mom's maiden name.
I wonder if there was ever an intent to have the group visit Germany and Spain, as these countries were referenced in episodes in which the characters were preparing for the European trip.
The post-Europe episodes I don't care for are the ones set in Florida. Except for the Orson Welles and Elsa Lanchester episodes, I think they're among the worst in the entire series. I also think the episode with "Mario the Gondalier" is pretty bad.
I agree, PJ.
Fred and Ethel apparently spent some time together as a vaudeville team, but didn't achieve any great success as performers. I recall that Fred was envious (in a nice way) of his ex-partner "Barney Kurtz's" great success as a vaudeville attraction in Europe, so I think it's pretty clear Fred never became a big draw in vaudeville, with or without Ethel.
Was Lucy perhaps in her early 20s when she married Ricky? I recall that in the episode when she finds out she's pregnant, she initially dismisses Ethel's suggestion that she might be by saying: "I've been married 11 years, Ethel!" In the episode"Lucy Tells The Truth," which takes place after the birth of Little Ricky (though I'm not sure how long after), she admits to her catty girlfriends (including Ethel!) that she's 33 years old.
Anyway, I'm also not a fan of sitcom episode where the actors are cast as their much younger selves, though I recall an episode of BEWITCHED in which Samantha cast a spell on the Kravitzes to have them both dream of his marriage proposal. She did it to reunite them after a fight. I thought it was kind of funny, just because Alice Pearce and Geroge Tobias were obviously supposed to look out of place in their college/high school attire.
I thought The Dick Van Dyke Show always did a good job of it because Rob and Laura were young, and the "flashbacks" never went further back than their courtship days.
It makes you wonder what Fred's career in Vaudeville was like when Ethel met him. Was he a headliner? Top half of the bill? Was he still with Barney Kurtz? I assume he was still with Barney Kurtz as Fred and Ethel both reminisce about performing with Barney, or at least on the same bill as Barney, in the "Mertz and Kurtz" episode.
Even though I think it's safe to assume that the Lucy/Desi Comedy Hour rewrote ILL history, in the episode which details how Lucy and Ricky met, Ricky's narration includes a reference to "gay young blade" Fred Mertz and "his child bride Ethel" being on their honeymoon on the same cruise ship that Lucy is on.
Now that you mention it, I think I remember Ethel saying she was a flapper, too.
If Ethel was born in 1911 (ten years before Lucy) she could have been a flapper in the late 20s, when she would have been in her late teens, so she could still be approximately a decade older than Lucy.
Which is at least younger than Fred's insinuation that Abraham Lincoln signed her birth certificate. lol
Good points, ReyRo:
It makes sense that Ethel would have married young, and I agree that she might have thought that marriage to Fred would help her achieve her stardom as a performer. In "Ethel's Hometown," Ethel makes several references to having gotten her start as a performer at her hometown theatre, so she likely had been a performer before she met Fred.
I think this would put Ethel at least around her mid-40s, which means that she was approximately 10 years older than Lucy.
+equerque
I've always liked "The Adagio," at least this classic line from Ricky, one of the funniest in the series in my opinion:
Jean Valjean Raymond: I was told that American men were AFRAID to duel...
Ricky: American eh? (Chuckling) I guess I fooled you with my Brooklyn acCENT!
I haven't watched "Drafted" in a long time, and haven't missed it. I'll probably always consider it one of the worst episodes of the series.
I do think "The Seance" and "The Fur Coat" have their moments. I like "Madame Merzola's" method of contacting the Spirit World, e.g., "Ethel to Tillie...Ethel to Tillie!"
Hi Gary,
I'm sorry you're put out by my calling out "Lucy Ricardo" (and the other cast members) on her many blatant faults. As I said in an earlier post, this is what I like about the show:
"I'm not as big a fan of ILL as some of the people who post regularly on this board though, when I catch an episode, I usually enjoy the imaginative plots and writing, Lucille Ball's comedic genius and fearlessness and the talented cast who backs her up."
I might ask in response are you ever capable of acknowledging Lucy's serious failings and often aberrant treatment of Ricky, Ethel, ext. in anything but the most superficial and ""forgiving" manner? I realize the show is supposed to be a comedy, but Lucy constantly gets away with murder, and her treatment of Ricky is often reprehensible, but die hard fans of ILL, including yourself, seem to feel her behavior is appropriate and she's impossibly endearing, so long as she gets a laugh.
As for posting positive comments about Lucy, I can cite two episodes off the top of my head where I do genuinely like/have sympathy for her:
Lucy is Enceinte: I know you don't care for the "pregnancy arc," but I think this is one of the nicest and most genuine episodes of the entire series. I have genuine sympathy for poor Lucy's inability to get Ricky alone long enough to share her exciting news, and I think the final revelation scene is beautifully and imaginatively done. I'm not surprised that Ball and Arnaz were unable to hold back real tears while filming it.
Lucy Goes to Monte Carlo: I have nothing but sympathy for Lucy in this episode. First of all, who is Ricky to order her not to go to the casino? Second, Lucy constantly tries to do the right thing in refusing her winnings ("I wash my hands!") and the money just keeps piling up. Of course, I wonder why the managers of the Casino are so eager to force her to accept her winnings even after she explains why she shouldn't, but this is a rare example of Lucy in a mess not of her own making.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who's wondered about this issue. To be honest, and no criticism intended to my fellow posters, given how often the "age" issue is raised for comic material on ILL, I thought my question would have received more responses than it has.
In "Lucy Tells the Truth," from Season 3, Lucy states her age as "33." In "Ethel's Birthday," from Season 4, Fred says that Ethel's age is somewhere between 40 and 50, so Ethel could well be 10 years or more older than Lucy.
Assuming that the series is not tampering with the characters' timeline, if Ethel is turning 40/41 on her birthday, that would make her about 6 years older than Lucy (who may have turned 34 between season 3 and season 4).
Yes. I'd recommend it. It's a very enjoyable "read," and he does give some background on the production history/casting of ILL. I'm not a huge ILL fan, but I enjoyed it very much.
Thank you for your response. I managed to fix the problem by fiddling with the audio setup on the Blu Ray player. Apparently the player has a setup fresh out of the box that didn't conform with my TV's capabilities.
Right on! lol