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Corryveckan45's Replies
Gppd Examples, PJ,
I thought of the Don Loper episode, but didn't include it for the reason you've mentioned: that Lucy apparently kept the $500 check Ricky left. I've always been puzzled by this episode because in the Paris episode when Lucy wants a Paris gown, Ricky produces a photocopy of an agreement Lucy signed in which she promised never to ask for another expensive dress if Ricky bought her "a Don Loper original." Did Lucy buy another Don Loper dress with the check Ricky gave her?
You're right about Lucy apologizing in the "Ethel's Birthday" episode, but I tend to blame Ethel a little more for this mess than I do Lucy. Granted, Lucy made an inappropriate choice for Ethel's gift, and Ethel was freely venting her frustration over it while "Fred" wasn't there, but at least it wasn't one of "Fred's" crazy presents that no one could even figure out what they were! (I also felt really sorry for the poor guy who was just trying to watch the play and kept having it spoiled by Lucy and Ethel's bickering.)
She definitely figures a way out of the "girl orchestra" dilemma. Once again, I feel really bad for the band members who have to dress in drag (I hope Ricky gave them all bonuses!) but even though we don't see the performance, we're led to believe that the audience bought it.
Presenting Lily Mars and Meet Me in St. Louis.
Hi PJ,
Yes, I love MY COUSIN VINNY. Fred Gwynne is terrific as the judge, as is the rest of the cast, and it's very realistic when he warns Joe Pesci that the next time Pesci appears in his courtroom he will look "Lawyerly!"
I don't know when people became so lax about their appearance. Of course, I suppose people who grew up in the 1930s/40s probably would be aghast at the way people dressed i nthe 1960s/70s. I recall an episode of I LOVE LUCY where Ethel refused to get on the subway in Blue Jeans! And in movies like THE ANDY HARDY films, Mickey Rooney, "America's Teenager" is often dressed in a shirt and tie (and hat!) even when he's just running around "Carvel!"
Even Lucy, as wacky as she was, only dressed "inappropriately" when she was trying to pull off one of her schemes/make a point, as in the episode where Ricky refuses to keep their apartment neat. Then, of course, she got her "Just deserts" by having her photograph appear on the cover of LOOK Magazine.
No problems with the "rant," PJ,
I agree. I mean, you don't have to dress formally for a casual night out, but you like to dress as if you respect yourself and other people and you should want to make a good appearance.
I knew a judge who sat in a local court. When the list of the day's cases were called and the defendant came forward in response to the call of his/her case, if the defendant's shirt wasn't tucked in or they were otherwise sloppily dressed, the judge would order him/her out of the courtroom with an order that he/she fix his/her appearance.
The defendant's case would be put at the bottom of the list for further call. This meant that the person's case would not be called until at or near the end of the list at second call, which meant that they might have to wait for hours just to get a further date or something else that would only have taken a minute or two.
Good point about dropping the clothes off anonymously, but, as you've pointed out, where would the comedy come from if Lucy and Ethel had just dropped the clothes off?
I've often thought what Lucy, and perhaps even Ethel, should have done was to tell their husbands that they (Lucy and Ethel) dress well, in part, because they want to look good for their husbands, and they're disappointed and hurt that Ricky and Fred don't reciprocate those feelings.
I will never forget one Saturday several years ago when I spent the morning cleaning out my office (moving boxes, files, dusting furniture, throwing things out, etc.). I was wearing old. comfortable, but definitely somewhat worn clothes and by the time I finished, I was what Fred might call "A nice big dusty mess." (Not that bad, but I think you get the idea.)
As I was leaving my office, I saw an advertisement for a free jazz concert by a local singer being given at the local concert hall, which was right across the street from my office. I wanted to attend the concert, and I was sure there wouldn't be a big audience, and, for a moment, I thought, "Well, I'll just go in my casual clothes, and sit in back where no one will see me." I immediately checked the thought, because I thought, as my parents taught me, "You never know who you might run into." I went home, got cleaned up, put on a sport coat and dressy casual shirt and slacks.
When I got back to the concert hall, I still thought I would sit in the back and as I made my way toward my projected seat, I ran into one of my bosses and his wife! So I think it's a rule well worth remembering.
Hi AnagramYYZ,
Thanks for your thoughts. What I meant was that MGM didn't follow up Garland's success in OZ with a series of "Judy Garland" musicals/films in which she was the central character/superstar attraction. I think she made 7 films between OZ and FOR ME AND MY GAL (1942), the first film where she received solo, above-the-title billing, an acknowledgement of her emerging superstar status. Of these 7, only one, "Little Nellie Kelly" (1940) could be considered a "Judy Garland movie."
In the others, she was cast as prominent support to other actors who had the leading role, most frequently Mickey Rooney in the ANDY HARDY and "Let's Put on a Show" films. You mentioned "Ziegfeld Girl (1941) and that's a perfect example. Even though Judy is billed second in the cast list (after James Stewart), an indication of her rising popularity, the film centers most on Lana Turner, and it's really a vehicle to enable Lana to graduate from starlet to star, much as OZ did for Judy.
Moreover, the "Garland vehicles" that Judy made at this time, "Little Nellie Kelly," "For Me and My Gal," and "Presenting Lily Mars," may have been "A" productions, but, if they were, they were modest "A" productions without the trappings of Technicolor, elaborate production numbers, original scores, etc. that Judy would get in her later films. In fact, Judy was so concerned about LILY MARS' modest budget that she reportedly went behind producer Joe Pasternak's back and complained to the front office that she thought it would fail, resulting in the film being turned over to the Arthur Freed Unit for an elaborate production number finale.
Yes, I mentioned the episode with Ricky's mother in another thread. I think it was the one asking for examples where people felt sorry for Lucy.
I like this episode a lot because it shows how important Lucy's marriage is to her, and how crucial it is to her to impress her mother-in-law.
Also, Lucy's mother is a real sweetheart and I like the ending when she's so proud of Lucy for going to such lengths to make a good impression on her.
I remember seeing several deleted scenes from ILL some time ago. One of them was of the Ricardos and Mertzes having dinner together, I think in the Ricardos apartment, and Lucy was saying how wonderful it was to have Ricky's mother visit and that she hoped his mother could come back soon. ILL often leaves the viewer hanging at the end of an episode, but it was nice to learn that Lucy and Ricky's mom had a great relationship once Lucy found out how his mom felt about her. Ethel also mentions that Ricky's mom loved Lucy when she visited the Ricardos.
Good points, PJ:
I'm sorry that Ricky's "temper tantrums" bring up unpleasant memories for you, and I can understand why they do. I'm glad he's your "ex husband," and you no longer have to go through that terrible treatment. No one deserves to be abused and diminished that way, and certainly not someone as nice as you are.
I do think the scenes where Ricky loses his temper are among the best in the series, both for Desi's skill at building Ricky to the boiling point and for Lucy's varied reactions (sometimes a "dropped jaw" to express shock, sometimes nervous nodding in agreement, nervous quick smiles, etc.) In the episode where the Ricardos decide to raise chickens to defray some of the cost of living in their new Connecticut home, I always laugh when Ricky is reviewing the monthly household accounts and Lucy mentions her relief that it's taken his mind off the $3,000. she spent on the new furniture. Ricky's scream of shock at the memory of it is priceless.
I've seen several interviews with Mary Tyler Moore in which she stated that her role model for Laura Petrie's crying was Nanette Fabray when she played Sid Cesar's wife in Your Show of Shows. MTM really did a superb job of making Laura's crying scenes both funny and touching. Perhaps my favorite is the scene in the episode of their attempted marriage when Laura thinks Rob has jilted her:
Rob: Aw Honey, Don't cry like that!
Laura (through her tears): This is the only way I know how to cry!
She also goes to a lot of effort, preparing an elaborate luncheon, to bring a resentful Ethel and new neighbor Betty Ramsey together so they can become friends in one of the Connecticut episodes.
I wonder why Betty Ramsey didn't reach out to the Mertzes sooner? Ethel has a point when she says that one couple invited to the Ramseys dinner party lives "four miles away" and the Mertzes live "four feet away."
The Ramseys and the Ricardos had their sons in common, and Lucy mentions that she's heavily involved in PTA and club activities that Ethel is not involved in, but you'd Betty would have reached out to Ethel, especially after meeting her in the episode with the new furniture ruckus.
Yes, the Superman episode is a good example. I think it's made clear in the series that, though she had a wacky personality, Lucy was a very loving and caring parent to Little Ricky.
Another would be when Lucy agreed to buy Fred's birthday present for Ethel. Of course, it didn't turn out too well when Ethel didn't like the present, but at least Lucy tried.
Nominally, he didn't, but who knows if Aunt Martha and Uncle Elmo would have taken the Ricardos' apartment?
I think Fred was so money obsessed he wanted to keep all his options open.
I agree that Fred might have had a problem if many people called in response to his TV advertisement and he had to tell them he had no vacancies.
Another episode where I've always felt sorry for Lucy is the episode where she meets Ricky's mother. Ricky's mom arrives early, and Lucy continually flubs her efforts to impress her, but you can see in this episode how much Lucy's marriage to Ricky means to her, and how vital it is for her to win her Mother-in-Law's approval.
Fortunately, Ricky's mom turns out to be a real sweetheart who can see how much Lucy wants her approval and loves her for it.
Similarly, I feel sympathy for Lucy when she meets Ricky's imperious "Uncle Alberto." She's so nervous she just can't do anything right or make a good impression.
I always thought it might be interesting if they'd done an episode where Ricky tries to win "Mrs. McGillicuddy's" approval. Somehow I doubt it would have ended as happily as Lucy's relationship with her mothe-in-law.
Fred never passed up an opportunity to make a profit, like when he started hocking "Ricky" souvenirs when he saw how excited the neighbors were about Ricky's new "movie star" status.
It's interesting that in one of the Europe episodes, when Lucy demands Rick buy her an expensive Paris gown, Ricky reminds Lucy that she signed an agreement that she would never ask for another expensive dress after Ricky "bought her" a Don Loper original. Of course, in the plot of that episode, Lucy manages to get the Don Loper dress for free when she does the fashion show.
Perhaps Lucy bought another Don Loper dress with the $500 check Ricky left her?
That's a very good example.
I just wish she would take time to reflect on her actions, then she wouldn't get into so much trouble. For instance, in this episode, she automatically assumes that the title "Bitter Grapes," is a literal one and means that she'll need to have knowledge of the Grape Industry and the women who press the grapes out.
In this episode, given Ricky's general attitude that he didn't want Lucy in show business, I don't think it's such a stretch for her to believe that Ricky didn't want her to appear in the movie, but I don't think he ever tells her she can't be in the movie, does he?
I feel sorry for Lucy in the "Housewarming" episode. Once again, she sort of jumps the gun, not taking into account that Ethel and Betty Ramsey are enjoying spending time together getting acquainted, enjoy their new friendship Still, Lucy did go to a lot of trouble (preparing a special luncheon) to bring them together, and it was somewhat thoughtless of Ethel and Betty to ignore her, especially after she was reaching out to each of them, or at least to Ethel, to spend some time with her.
Of course, if she didn't jump the gun, I guess she wouldn't be the Lucy character so many people love.
I think Lucy and Ethel were right on this one, too. I don't think Ricky needed to wear a sport coat and tie, but he and Fred should have looked neat and presentable.
I mentioned this in a post a while back and some posters disagreed, but aside from generally dressing nicely when you're out, Ricky is a celebrity in New York City, and there's always the chance he could be seen some important people in show business circles who would be put off by his sloppy attire.
Lucy and Ethel definitely shouldn't have disposed of the clothes without checking with Ricky and Fred. On the other hand, Ricky and Fred had apparently been promising for a long time to get rid of the clothes themselves, and they shouldn't have done that either.
I can see your point, PJ, and I agree that screaming is not generally the way to solve problems, but I can understand Ricky being shocked at Lucy's behavior and initially yelling at her, especially since, she'd do such devastating things, and talking calmly to her never seemed to make much impression.
I also didn't like when Lucy would cry, since it was usually fake and Lucy usually did it to manipulate Ricky and get her own way. Not to mention that the crying sounded very grating.
I've read that Desi Arnaz was adamant that the scripts for ILL retain Ricky's masculinity/head of the household status in the face of Lucy's Force of Nature personality. The writers probably felt Ricky's yelling was part of that image.
True, but when Ethel asks her how she could buy any dress without checking the price first, Lucy admits she did it because she wanted to be in the fashion show.
I agree about Betty. I also think she and Ralph were honestly trying to be helpful/make a good impression on their new neighbors. The Ramseys are right that they went to a lot of trouble to set up the deal with the furniture warehouse, choose the furniture and, at the last minute, to get the house set up for the Ricardos (imaginary) Saturday night party.
Ricky actually DOES insinuate that Ralph is a crook when he suggests Ralph is getting a kickback for setting up the deal. It's appalling.
Ricky could get very volatile, but I think when he did it was with some real justification when Lucy did something shocking and really troubling. Some examples would include her spending $3,000.00 for new furniture for the Connecticut home when he told her she could only spend $500, when she got him fired from MGM, when she spent $500 for the Don Loper original when he told her she could only spend $100. etc.
Even though I think the episode with the Baby Pictures competition between the Ricardos and the Applebys is a funny one, I've never liked the ending when Ricky forces Lucy to appear on TV acknowledging Stevie Appleby as the most beautiful baby she's ever seen. We know Ricky doesn't agree with that, and I feel as if he sold out Little Ricky for a job.