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Owlwise's Replies
I did like the New Gods, but I'm sorry the series was cut short before Kirby could bring it to a definite conclusion as he had planned. Agree that his FF & Thor were absolute magic. :)
I agree with Carl Jung on this: myth is innate to our nature & to our essence as human beings. They express & embody psychological, emotional, spiritual truths about our experience of life & of the Universe, from the quietly intimate to the vast & the majestic.
He also said that a culture that loses sight of & connection with the symbolic universe of mythos is adrift & lost, and will struggle to fill that emptiness with any number of lesser things that ultimately can't satisfy its need for the deeply grounded & felt meaning that only comes from the experience of living myth. And I think this is true. It's definitely why mythic works of art easily outlast the cultures & religions that originally created them. I may not believe in the Greek or Norse gods, but those stories still speak to something eternally true about being human. King Arthur doesn't have to have been historically real to embody very real meaning & purpose at this very moment. There are no actual supernatural demons, but we still wrestle with them.
Bill Moyers asked Joseph Campbell about being heroic in today's world, and Campbell offered the example of a man who said, "Every day that I go down into that subway & go to work, I die a little. But I know that I am doing it for my family." Campbell didn't hesitate to call that heroic. We may not face anything as fantastic as dragons, but we must make difficult, even sacrificial choices every day as well. We might not be tempted by the One Ring, but we may have to do the right thing even if it makes life more difficult for us. Myths give us guidance & models, as well as reminding us that our "ordinary" lives can be rich & meaningful.
You know, I may be going a little far afield here, but this discussion puts me in mind of another film often dismissed as sweet sentimental fluff: the original Miracle on 34th Street. Sweetly sentimental fluff? Yet nearly everyone in the film wants something from Kris Kringle, even those who genuinely like him. That's definitely a realistic, even cynical look at life. Those who gravitate to Kris are marginalized in one way or another, their fragile & precious dreams in danger of being crushed by the realistic world. The "lovely intangible" that Doris says aren't worth very much in this world, because they don't help you get get ahead.
And of course that's the question ultimately asked by the movie, whether imagination, fantasy, ideals, have any place or use today. Fred's response: "That depends on what you call getting ahead. Look, Doris, someday you're going to find that your way of facing this realistic world just doesn't work. And when you do, don't overlook those lovely intangibles. You'll discover those are the only things that are worthwhile."
Not unlike Puddleglum's defiance of the witch in The Silver Chair, when she tries to convince him & the children that the World Above is an illusion. He responds that even if there isn't really a Narnia, he'll continue to live as if there is, because it's still a better way of living than what the witch is offering as reality.
This is what the mythic really is, isn't it? Not a scientific or physical reality, but a moral & spiritual reality; not an actual place so much as a state of mind & perspective; not facts & metrics, but immediate & rapturous personal experience. Hence the words of the Native American Black Elk, saying that one must stand upon a peak at the center of the world to commune with the Spirit ... and adding, but wherever you are standing is the center of the world.
"Chivalrous" is the precise & exact word for Knights of the Round Table. :)
And I agree with you that these mythic tales & legends are loved because they do indeed incorporate the entire cycle of life, both joyful & tragic. They say that it's not the worst thing in the world to fight & perhaps die for a good cause, and that a well-lived life & a reasonably good death are ample rewards in themselves for having been born into this world. Also that there is a transcendent dimension to life, and that we can glimpse it at times, participate in it ... which is something that such tales & legends enable us to do, even in this desacralized world. Perhaps even more so because of that.
I enjoy cynical noir films & even relentlessly dark stories at times as well. But emphasizing those to the degree that the joyful & heroic are crowded out, dismissed as childish nonsense, is going too far in one direction, and is just as out of balance as a worldview that sees only happy little clouds in an endlessly blue sky. Both are ever-present in life. The mythic & the legendary is about cherishing & striving to preserve the joyful while never forgetting the tragic.
One of my favorite moments in Excalibur is a very quiet one: when Arthur sees Guinevere for the last time, and she speaks of having loved him as a king, and sometimes as a man, but one cannot gaze too long at the sun. And Arthur then replying that in the hereafter of life, he hopes to come to her simply as a man, and that she will know him to be her husband. Lovely, human, and heartbreaking.
You know, in recent years I've come to appreciate the 1954 Knights of the Round Table. Despite some flaws & miscasting, I think it works as the film equivalent of one of those lavishly illustrated children's books from the early 20th Century, playing down the darker elements but still conveying the tragedy of Camelot's end. And if it's a more genteel & Christian version of Arthur than one with one foot in the pagan world & one foot in the Christian world, I like that it takes its religion seriously as a natural part of the story. The little heartfelt gestures of devotion on the part of the knights, especially Lancelot, add a great deal to the tone of the film. Its old-fashioned aspects are actually a plus to my mind.
I do think Excalibur really catches the mythic/legendary aspect of Arthur, and may well be the finest film version. And Merlin is indeed an underrated retelling of the story. But there's room for something like Knights of the Round Table as well.
Just came across this discussion. It's both wonderful & insightful. :)
He could do it all, from the tenderhearted Marty to the worst & most sadistic villain in the world. And everything in-between, too. :)
He's always good, isn't he!
Responding a year later to your post, which is still 100% true. I also hate how recent Trek series have chosen to go dystopian. Trek should be about hope. Yes, the makers of those series claim they're just reacting to the tone of current troubled times ... but in such times, a glimpse of hope is needed all the more.
Thanks for posting this! His work formed a happy part of my youth some (mumble mumble) decades ago.
My takeaway as well. :)
There's also a secondary point, it seems to me: all the people actually doing creative work in the film have an idealized nostalgia for some vanished Golden Age, which has inspired them, or at least helped to make them creative artists in whatever medium they prefer. And I've felt that same nostalgia when reading about (for example) the Romantic Poets, or any other artistic movement of the past. But I also realize that it's making a very selective reading of the past, just picking the best parts & deleting the bad. For Gil. recognizing this is what enables him to move forward. The Golden Past is a beginning—not a place to stay forever, but to use as a starting point. Don't live back there, but carry the best of it with you into the present.
It's a shame that your accurate response has to be repeated over & over again on these boards. But there are just so many who don't seem to have the slightest notion of how soldiers bond so powerfully, not just in WWI, but in any war. Or for that matter, just how strongly friends can bond in any dire situation.
Definitely Cutter's Way! But also his roles in Chilly Scenes of Winter, Between the Lines, and Mindwalk.
"Angry. Angry young man."
Add to that the fact that Woody & Soon-Yi have been married all this time, and by all accounts quite happily so. It's not impossible that couples of disparate ages can genuinely fall in love & remain in love over years & decades, after all.
For me, Moses' adult testimony is especially convincing. I'm not really surprised that he became a therapist & marriage counselor, given his own childhood. He clearly wanted to understand the dynamics of adult relationships from an adult perspective, so very different & more complex than the limited understanding of a child. And he seems to have established a warm adult relationship with Woody & Soon-Yi.
Not in this case, because Gandalf's return from death in the movie is pretty much how it happens in the book.
Thanks for posting this link. A wonderful song!
I think George was vegetarian for ethical/spiritual reasons, more so than for health reasons. But I do wish he had given up smoking for health reasons.