I'm about 6 episodes in where we have a town of maybe a few dozen random people trapped in this small, spooky town & half of the female characters are lesbians?
Kristi - The town doctor, reveals she was engaged to a woman. Well, I suppose it's a good enough excuse for why she is friend zoning the geeky Asian guy with a crush on her so hard, so fair enough.
Fatima - Stereotypical free love hippie, openly has a lesbian side chick. Fits her character profile well enough so sure why not?
Donna - Butch coded "momma" archetype & the head of hippie house. Okay, fine
Julie - Typical annoying teenage girl who ditches her family to hang out with hippie house. Bonds with Fatima & her bf Ellis, then randomly asks Fatima to makeout with her after seeing her kiss her lesbian side chick. Umm Really? I know it's modern television where virtually all teenage girls are sexually confused & can't bond with each other without it taking a lesbian turn but it still felt rather forced & pointless.
Though the show is on my watchlist, yet to watch it, I think it's okay for pretty women to engage in romantic relationships with one another. Should be a social norm, if it hasn't already become.
Is it okay for goodlooking men to engage in romantic relationships with each other? Should male homosexuality be a social norm as well? Or is it only okay for women?
Yes, because you're sexually objectifying lesbians. Joke or not, I hear straight guys say that all the time. Are you afraid to discuss this? It's an important issue for LGBT women.
Are you confused as to why straight guys 'say that all the time'?
Why would I need to go into a pathetic political argument?
In regards to your claim about "objectifying" lesbians, well, it's actually you that has done so. I know perfectly well that beautiful lesbians are human beings, yet you are the one that has identified and labeled them as objects per your projection (e.g., "objectifying" lesbians claim).
Hahaha. I asked you a simple question and your inability to give a simple answer and try to deflect speaks volumes. You're the one who politicized the discussion.
And why do you have a problem with it? I answered the OP's question. "All the lesbianism" we see in the media is sexual objectification. Deal with it.
And why do you have a problem with it? I answered the OP's question. "All the lesbianism" we see in the media is sexual objectification. Deal with it.
So you admit you made an error. You were commenting and answering the OP and not replying to my post. I get it now. Plus, the OP never stated that in the OP; unless you're claiming: Producing anything on screen is to objectify everything that is on screen.
I asked you a simple question and your inability to give a simple answer and deflect speaks volumes. You're the one who politicized the discussion.
Well, you did admit to making it political with "Yes,..."; And, at what 'volume? How high is it compared to other levels of volume? What the hell does that even mean, truly?
Are you the type of person who has to speak in essay format, so as not to include, while [also] not to exclude persons, places, things, and concepts so as to not offend or be perceived as offensive? [Or,] If someone doesn't speak in this manner, do you flick on some "activist" switch, for whatever topic?
Let me test you:
What is your favorite color?
But, we know you won't answer this question, it's silly anyway.
You simply have a chip on your shoulder.
Yes, this is your worldview described with simple logic:
2 + 2 = y
y = 4 (reasonable, logical answer);
But you can't handle that. You can't just bubble in C for y = 4 (on a scantron), you need to include and exclude numbers, so others won't perceive you're more favorable to 4 than all other numbers; thus:
"y is greater than 3, and not equal to and less than 3, and y is less than 5, but not equal to or greater than 5. Simply stating y = 4, objectifies all other numbers, not representing their true value. [As such], how can we state: "y = 4"?; there would be no 4 without a 2. Furthermore, the use of 'y' prioritizes men over women."
(This is your tilted worldview; unnecessary; emotional answer); and then for odd reasons:
You'll try to get [the] teacher fired because there was no room for you to write all this crap on a scantron, depriving you of (insert something).
I made no mistake. I was addressing you specifically. You said and I quote:
I think it's okay for pretty women to engage in romantic relationships with one another. Should be a social norm, if it hasn't already become.
So as long as the woman are "pretty", lesbianism is okay. You snidely want it to be "the norm" which would leave you ass out. So you want to watch? Any lesbian I know would kick you in the balls.
What pervy voyeuristic crap.
And what is "essay format"? I know how to write. And with this last post you should have been more succinct.
Let me test you:
What is your favorite color?
But, we know you won't answer this question, it's silly anyway.
Okay, I'll bite. I love blue-grey. Now what the hell does that have to do with anything?
You simply have a chip on your shoulder.
No, no chip. I just find it hilarious that you want all women to be lesbians so you can watch.
When women pretend to be lesbians for the benefit of straight males, it's just cringe.
You did make a mistake, plenty of them:
First, you misread what the OP was talking about. Nothing was stated about "sexually objectifying" lesbians. Yes, the word "sexually" was used, but to explain the confusion of what many experience. Furthermore, the OP was talking about the OVERT nature of entertainment displaying "lesbianism" instead of, why can't girls just be friends?
Are you in agreement with the OP that there should be less "lesbianism" in media?
Then you take your misunderstandings of the OP, and apply it to an argument or idea that I have not expressed, and to then judge me based on not wanting to answer your politically motivated and loaded questions.
It's funny that you now harp on "pretty" and drop "sexually objectifying". Or are you claiming that using the word PRETTY is sexual and objectifying and that it is apparently very concerning to LGBT women?
[I am genuinely curious as to why you left out "Q" in your previous response]
Do you feel it best that the entertainment community should EXCLUDE lesbians deemed "pretty" on screen?
Or, is this some anti-hierarchical demonstration, performative activism, like "The pretty ones are at the top of the pyramid, so the rest of us have to tear them down"?
I guess I showed support for pretty lesbians, so I understand now why you're talking to me like this.
In your initial reply and throughout, you mispresent my post as if what I stated was a definitive, exclusionary proclamation... that "because I like 'pretty' lesbians", it must mean I also wish to exclude everyone else.
Oof. Rotted logic.
Thus, you had to flip that "activist" switch on. I must have caused such an affront because I used the word "pretty", and my post didn't attach a disclaimer proclaiming that "I also believe that all sexualities are just as equal, as well as their looks," to fulfill your vigor of inclusivity.
*Essay Format -- a single statement of why one favors [x], while also having to (forced to) elevate all others to the same level as the favored, resulting in the favored's valuemoot; meaningless; valueless, though very much inclusive. (your tilted worldview; unnecessary; emotional)
It's also funny that you feel it's okay to say that your favorite color is "blue-grey", without providing such a disclaimer, listing all the reasons why all the other colors are just as valid and should be respected and represented, as light is a spectrum, and as such: so is color. Why didn't you do it?
You didn’t do it. You just wrote, “blue-grey”. You wrote: y = 4; or rather, "I like pretty lesbians".
Yet, you expect me to proclaim all other numbers are just as valid and should be represented when it comes to my initial statement (y = 4).
This is why I say trying to make this political is unnecessary.
You do have a chip on your should:
You’ve misread the OP and prejudged my intentions by creating your own made-up arguments about a revisionist version of my initial post while using exclusionary terms like “only”, “as long as”, and “all women to be lesbian” to fit said made-up, manufactured arguments in your head.
To whom and what are you actually talking to or about?
Do you even know?
You’re arguing with YOURSELF, and perhaps arguing with other people in your own life that I don’t know, and trying to project that all onto me, geez. Get a clue, my friend, I'm not your enemy.
You may have to quadruple down, to secure your nutcase frame of mind (not trying to sound harsh, just poking a little fun; prolly contributions from a lack of REM sleep).
When women pretend to be lesbians for the benefit of straight males, it's just cringe.
So you want to eliminate entertainment as a whole?
Just to give you a little hint: there are a lot more other things than casting a straight person to portray a gay person that is “pretend” in the TV and film industry.
PS: There is no need for a call to violence when someone is supporting lesbian representation in media. "Kick my balls", what an Oof thing to say.
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It is quite silly. I've seen this on a lot of shows in recent years. In real life only a small percentage of women are lesbians/bisexual. On modern tv it is somewhere around 50%.
Yes we are. I'm glad we're not social outcasts anymore, but this has gotten ridiculous. It's cringe and feels forced.
I'd like to see this Gallup poll and where it was taken, I wouldn't be surprised if it was in some uber-liberal American town or something. Teens have a habit of jumping on to whatever's trendy just to fit it, especially if it makes one popular and/or privileged.
I'm like you in that regard. I don't give a rat's ass whether straights like me or not. They can also take their marriage and stuff it up some queen's ass.
But our numbers have always been under represented because older LGB people had to live deep in the closet for our very survival. These youngsters can be more honest. 1 in 5 sounds right to me. Bisexuality is 13% among Gen Z.
Lots of formerly "leading and respected" institutions and organizations have fallen to modern political pressure (or bribery) to appear more inclusive and diverse than they actually are, and so they tend to skew data and reality. In a way they're even worse than teenagers who jump on trends, since they have power and influence that they can abuse. I don't care for lip-service, especially when it only causes more division.
From what I've searched, polls from Gallup claimed it's less than 10% of the population, so again, I'm curious as to which specific poll you're referring to.
Even under the very narrow scope of only counting people in their teens and 20s, 20% seems like a pretty steep overestimation which actually aligns with a gallop poll taken several years back that found that Americans believed the general alphabet population to be over 20%, when it's not even close. Reasons for this misconception being the unprecedented spike in alphabet overrepresentation on TV & other media. This show is just one tiny example of that. These polls are taken anonymously so closeted LBGT would still be counted. They can keep moving the goal post all they want but the evidence of a steadily increasing number of LBGT youth suggests social conditioning being a big factor, as "forced" to be closeted upon threat of death has generally not really been a thing in the U.S. Certainly not in the last several decades. Gay is the new goth. Not the new black.
I simply don't buy it the "stigma" argument for why it wasn't until very recently and exclusively Gen Z that identifies as LBGTQ at such high frequency. It's far less about prior stigma and more about the aggressive multibillion dollar backed socialization and popularization programing in entertainment & youth education. It's not organic. The stigma against smoking has increased over the decades yet smoker rates have apparently increased significantly from the 1940s to the 2020s. LBGTQ is definitely the new goth.
I always imagined smoking rates would be at an all-time low, given what is known about the health risks and was actually surprised when I recently read a poll that said the opposite about the global rates, strangely enough. Good to know.
>Fatima - Stereotypical free love hippie, openly has a lesbian side chick. Fits her character profile well enough so sure why not?
Fatima isn't a lesbian. She may be bisexual.
>Donna - Butch coded "momma" archetype & the head of hippie house. Okay, fine
This is literally just you stereotyping.
>Julie - Typical annoying teenage girl who ditches her family to hang out with hippie house. Bonds with Fatima & her bf Ellis, then randomly asks Fatima to makeout with her after seeing her kiss her lesbian side chick. Umm Really? I know it's modern television where virtually all teenage girls are sexually confused & can't bond with each other without it taking a lesbian turn but it still felt rather forced & pointless.
Not sure why you're bringing up a complete non sequitur. "Lesbianism" in the title question was clearly being used as a descriptive, behavioral term so whatever labels you want to place on these characters is entirely beside the point.
Sidenote: "Julie is likely bisexual, at best."
That's just you conjecturing. Still irrelevant to my original point but a curious assumption nonetheless when Julie has literally shown no interest in anyone other than Fatima when she propositioned her to make out. It's all the audience has to go on.
>Not sure why you're bringing up a complete non sequitur. "Lesbianism" in the title question was clearly being used as a descriptive, behavioral term so whatever labels you want to place on these characters is entirely beside the point.
There's no evidence that Donna is a lesbian other than you stereotyping her based on her personality.
>That's just you conjecturing. Still irrelevant to my original point but a curious assumption nonetheless when Julie has literally shown no interest in anyone other than Fatima when she propositioned her to make out. It's all the audience has to go on.
I can actually confirm that Julie is probably bisexual, given I have seen all of the show and you haven't.
As an "LGBT" man, I think it's quite okay to refer to a female bisexual as participating in "lesbianism". When she's with a woman she is. I look at sex as an act, not an overall identity.
"There's no evidence that Donna is a lesbian other than you stereotyping her based on her personality."
Focusing on the "one" interpretation-based example among several I provided is merely a deflection from the overall point I was making. Same with pointing out characters who you believe identify as bisexual when that's completely irrelevant, as the other user above also pointed out to you. By the way, I read a spoiler that the spooky cursed town later even magicked Kristi's lesbian fiancé into the town. Apparently, an unprecedented event as it the first time the town had brought in anyone from the outside world who was connected to a person already trapped. Seems the w̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶s̶ town really does have even more of a strange, disproportionate predication towards lesbianism than I originally thought.
Kristi is 100% bisexual. I know this also because I have seen the first two seasons. Julie is bisexual. I know this because I have seen the first two seasons.
>I read a spoiler that the spooky cursed town even magicked the Kristi's lesbian fiancé into the town.
Yes. Amongst other people. And no, it may not be the only linked connected later arrival on that bus.
"Kristi is 100% bisexual. I know this also because I have seen the first two seasons. Julie is bisexual. I know this because I have seen the first two seasons."
*Repeatedly* pointing out characters who you believe are bisexual, when it has *repeatedly* been explained to you by multiple people now that this is irrelevant to my OP, isn't suddenly going to make it relevant.
"Yes. Amongst other people. And no, it may not be the only linked connected later arrival on that bus."
Whatever else "may" later be, the fact that the first major instance of it happening involves the lesbian fiancé of a main character is SUS & further supports my point.
>*Repeatedly* pointing out characters who you believe are bisexual, when it has *repeatedly* been explained to you by multiple people now that this is irrelevant, isn't suddenly going to make it relevant.
I don't just *believe* they are bisexual. I know they are. I have literally seen the first two seasons.
>Whatever else "may" later be, the fact that the first major instance of it happening involves the lesbian fiancé of a main character is SUS.
"I don't just *believe* they are bisexual. I know they are. I have literally seen the first two seasons."
You're kind of coming across as low-key trolling now. Nobody is this obtuse unless it's on purpose. Whether you believe the characters identify as bisexual & they shouted it out in every scene they were in, it would still completely irrelevant to my point yet for some reason you're obsessing over this complete non sequitur.
Do you have anything else to add? Otherwise, I'm not going to respond to any more irrelevant & deflective trolling with "But she's bisexual!" & if you persist, I'll just assume that means you've tapped out.
Your OP is based on a false premise that assumes 1 person is lesbian based on stereotypes, and then assumes the other 3 are lesbians (they're bisexual).
"Spamming a conversation about how characters are bisexual even though it's been thoroughly explained to me how irrelevant that is to OP's point, is totally not trolling"
Please find something else to do besides deliberately missing the point for arguing for the sake of arguing troll purposes.
[–] OnanTheBarbarian (7692) 5 days ago
As an "LGBT" man, I think it's quite okay to refer to a female bisexual as participating in "lesbianism". When she's with a woman she is. I look at sex as an act, not an overall identity.
^Someone who isn't a moron or pretending to be.
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Okay? So? So "what's with all the bisexuals that I call lesbians"? I don't know, but it's really not a major driver of the story. Bar the love triangle. And Fatima is actually in a heterosexual relationship.
The point that was repeatedly being missed here is that given the implausibly large percentage of female characters out of such a small number of random people shown to have varying degrees of lesbian tendencies, the show's w̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶ mysterious town clearly has an agenda that's forcing the issue.
4 (and Fatima and Julie are prominently straight based on their overall plot development). 2 Lesbians (although Kristi is bisexual).
Who cares? The agenda is what? "Lesbians (bisexuals) are people too?" Tabitha, Donna, Sara and Tien-Chen are not. There are 2 other supporting women that join the series in S02 as well, who aren't presented as lesbians. And Trudy from S01 until she got killed halfway through.
The point that was repeatedly being missed here is that given the implausibly large percentage of female characters out of such a small number of random people shown to have varying degrees of lesbian tendencies, the show's w̶r̶i̶t̶e̶r̶ mysterious town clearly has an agenda that's forcing the issue.
maybe Julie asked to kiss Fatima because I don't recall seeing many or any teenage boys. Take what you can get.. Also later on she seemed to vibe good with Elgin and Randall. Or maybe Julie mistook Fatima's kindness towards her in more than a friend.