Sorry to have brought identity/gender politics into... NOPE. Not sorry AT ALL 'cause I think the GALAXY George gave birth to in '77 is big enough for EVERYONE: straight, gay, black, white, brown, Twi'lek, Sullustan, Wookiee, DROID & anything inbetween. #droidrights #weAREsentient
8:43 PM - May 18, 2018
Gone are the days of having a great story and an entertaining movie be enough. Gotta drag films through the reality TV drama filter to comply to the lowest common denominator.
People should shut up about their films, and see if they can stand on their own.
I guess they can't.
Luckily he was schooled straight away in the replies.
Then make new characters. Stop messing with existing characters.
They won't however, because they aren't capable of creating interesting characters. I can't imagine they'll be making spin-off movies with Rose Tico and that Benicio Del Toro character whose name escapes me anytime soon, do you?
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People can't enjoy a movie for what it is any more. Can't even have a movie with two male leads at the center without people whining about how a woman robot is gender politics gone awry.
Ever since Anika Sarkeesian spoke her mind about some male-centric tropes in video games, male fans of all media have lost their damn minds, and now everything is a conspiratorial agenda to pick away at their masculinity.
White males complaining the matriarchy is becoming too strong... you all turned into a bunch of SJW cucks yourselves.
Anika Sarkeesian is another SJW cunt who hates gamers, men, and real people in general.
I forget who wrote that anti-gamer screed in Polygon, but it started the backlash against insane SJW regressives.
Robots are supposed to be rational and unemotional, not Leftie SJWs. Female robots are supposed to have big tits too.
two male lead characters? have you seen the movie? It could very well be a movie where Solo is just a incapable idiot and the Emilia Clarke character and the robot are cool and badass. Just watch Solo get backseated in his own fucking movie.
I understand your criticism, but there ARE people effectively trying to make male characters bad. Just look at Ghostbusters 2016. It was horrible. Sure this is not applicable to EVERY movie with male leads or male characters. But I'm just saying it DOES happen.
Saying that people who notice this stuff are 'white males complaining' is just ignorant.
It could very well be a movie where Solo is just a incapable idiot and the Emilia Clarke character and the robot are cool and badass.
People are so focused on picking something apart pertaining to patriarchy-vs-matriarchy nonsense in Star Wars that you can't even watch a SW trailer without bringing your own SJW conspiracy theories that the trailer didn't even present. It's like you want that less likely scenario to be true just so you can complain about it. This was my original point.
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This is not true. I don't just 'watch the trailer and begin with conspiracies'.
Writers and producers/directors of Disney Star Wars (Lucasfilm) have openly talked about these SJW stuff. And looking at TFA,TLJ and Rogue One, it is clear that modern day Star Wars will be filled with this stuff.
Sure, Solo could be totally different and I could be very very wrong. But yes, the trailer DID hint to some stuff.
I am not starting to speculate or bring up conspiracies. I am just saying that Solo COULD be a target of SJW politics and dismissing criticism as 'white males complaning' is fucking stupid.
Sure, there are annoying idiots out there, but valid criticism is valid criticism.
It's like we've never seen the Bride in Kill Bill. It's like we've never seen Sarah Conor in Terminator. It's like we've never seen Ripley in Aliens.
The thing is, those franchises began with those characters in those roles. It didn't matter that the audience had to fill in the blanks on how they got there. Star Wars was primarily male leads though, with Leia playing third fiddle. When TFA came out, people were also fine with it for the most part. Then they gave Jyn Erso a movie of her own, and many TFA fans just decided they didn't like TFA any more because they sensed an agenda. But back in the day, nobody cared. In the post-Sarkeesian world, there can't be any franchise that moves toward stronger female characters. That's how petty people have gotten and the criteria which they've used to judge a film. If that's you, you deserve to be disappointed.
There are so many things wrong with the Last Jedi that you don't even need to get into the SJW bullshit. All the bad decisions Rian Johnson made had nothing to do with Kathleen Kennedy. Her boneheaded mistake was allowing Rian Johnson to do whatever he wanted. And what he wanted to do was completely change the direction of Star Wars.
Rey's back-story nixed.
Snoke's backstory nixed.
No more force lineage.
Luke has turned against the force.
Tedious side quest.
Neither rebellion nor empire.
Floating Leia.
Hyperspace crash.
Out of all of them, I only found one of his ideas interesting, which is the 'neither the rebellion nor empire' angle, with Kylo and Rey becoming allies instead of cliched foes. But that was pretty much it. The rest of Johnson's bad ideas can be chalked up to him wanting to change the direction of Star Wars too much. You don't need to get into Holdo's hair color or the fact she's a woman. That's sidetracking yourself from the real problem so you can further the narrative that TFA and Rogue One are bad movies because there's an agenda to emasculate men.
The people you so strongly call ''white men complaining'' are all people who love Alien, Terminator and Kill Bill. Honestly. People don't care if their lead is a male or a female. We care about GOOD CHARACTERS. And Disney Star Wars just doesn't have them. People are calling out Rey not just because she is a woman, but because she is a terrible CHARACTER. And the reason people are shouting SJW is because the director, producer and writers all say : yes she is such a independent and strong woman. THEY are creating the SJW bullshit, we just call them out on it.
''That's sidetracking yourself from the real problem so you can further the narrative that TFA and Rogue One are bad movies because there's an agenda to emasculate men.''
This is not the case. I 100% agree with you that the SJW angle is not the biggest problem of the new movies. Like I said, Rogue One had SJW stuff in there aswell, but I didn't care so much because I loved the story of Rogue One and the characters. With TFA I also didn't care so much (mostly because I thought TLJ and episode 9 would improve all the stuff I disliked).
With TLJ its just a big pile of horrible shit. The SJW stuff in TLJ just makes the whole thing worse and worse. With TLJ its also that the SJW shit is woven into the horrible story. Holdo's bullshit with not explaining herself to Poe just because 'I'm a female commander and I don't need to explain my plan to males'. or Rose Tico with her stupid love story bullshit and ''saving what we love'' goddamn that shit was so cringey.
And destroying Luke by making him weak as fuck and making Rey stronger than he ever was without character development also reeks of SJW bullshit.
So in short : I liked Rogue One and TFA but I absolutely fucking hate TLJ and TLJ also destroyed my enjoyment of TFA.
The people you so strongly call ''white men complaining'' are all people who love Alien, Terminator and Kill Bill.
The people I was calling "white males complaining" were those that blame TLJ's poor construction on their conspiracy that Kathleen Kennedy had an SJW agenda to emasculate them. Terminator, Kill Bill, Aliens... you couldn't make that connection with those franchises.
You may want the SJW stuff to be the reason why TLJ is bad, but you've already admitted it's not. Removing any instance of social justice from the film would leave the film exactly where it is.
Let's say Kill Bill was made today, but turned out to be a bad movie, but also avoided adding any extra SJW plot elements. It would get the exact same type of criticism from those claiming Kathleen Kennedy's SJW agenda ruined Star Wars.
In this day and age, it is impossible to have a bad action movie with a female lead and avoid that type of criticism. TFA wasn't even a bad movie, and we got a level of anti-SJW criticism that had never been seen prior for any film.
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Read my reply. I said it : ''With TLJ its also that the SJW shit is woven into the horrible story. Holdo's bullshit with not explaining herself to Poe just because 'I'm a female commander and I don't need to explain my plan to males'. or Rose Tico with her stupid love story bullshit and ''saving what we love'' goddamn that shit was so cringey.
And destroying Luke by making him weak as fuck and making Rey stronger than he ever was without character development also reeks of SJW bullshit.''
If you remove all the SJW stuff from TLJ, you probably take away 50% of the horrible bullshit. Which is alot. If you don't believe Kathleen Kennedy is pushing a agenda, then you haven't been paying attention. Its in so many interviews, posts, comments and even on stage. She is openly pushing an agenda. If you don't want to believe that, thats fine. You will come around eventually. Because this shit ain't subtle anymore.
If you remove all the SJW stuff from TLJ, you probably take away 50% of the horrible bullshit.
Well it depends on what you consider SJW stuff. You probably consider Holdo's secret plan to be SJW stuff. It was done because Rian Johnson wanted to keep the audience in the dark. It also made her look like a villain, but that was also intended. For all I know, you consider the love story between Finn and Rose to be SJW stuff. Hell, maybe even Poe cracking jokes at the beginning was SJW stuff. Everything in that movie would've avoided the "pushing an agenda" criticism in the past. The only SJW stuff I can confirm was actually SJW-related was on the casino planet. They even toned down Rey compared to TFA, and in TFA it was more about her know-it-all attitude than her fighting ability.
So far we've only had two big-budget, adventure-oriented franchise films with female leads in the post-Sarkeesian world that the majority believes were bad... Ghostbusters and Star Wars (specifically TLJ). Strangely, those are the only two franchises whose 'badness' was blamed on SJW politics. However, both of them are franchises that were originally male-dominant. That right there is the cardinal sin. If you take a male-dominant franchise and put women in it, then it's just part of an SJW agenda to emasculate men. It doesn't even have to be bad. TFA and especially Rogue One were pretty damn solid. Ocean's Eight is next on the alt-right's chopping block even though the Ocean's Eleven franchise really has nowhere else to go. You'll see.
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I think you want a reasonable middle ground between the two sides, and I understand how you see the complaining white males as rigid, but I think it is wrong. They seem to view anything with women as conspiracy against them, but what I think is really going on is this is just a tactic. I do not know how you say it in English but it may be called a flash point, where they establish themselves in direct opposition in order to rally. The studios want more women leads, therefore movie viewers must oppose women leads in order to oppose the studios, even though as you pointed out none of them actually oppose Alien or Kill Bill. What they really want is meritocracy and only the studios are the ones against this. But you have to see it as a nonsuperficial point of view.
You are saying franchises that were originally female dominate could not be made into SJW propaganda? It is obvious to me that is false. Everyone would be very upset if a new Alien movie featured a political agenda against men even though it was already female dominated. In fact even if it did not, you would most likely see complaints that Alien didn't reverse gender to favor males like Star Wars reverse gender to favor females, and this would be justified out of balance. So I am suspicious that you are using an appeal to moderation as a shield. Another clue is that you refer to another movie being on the alt-right's chopping block. You are elevating their power to demonize them. It is Internet forum users versus movie studios. The seller can not be a victim of the buyer.
The thing is the Ghostbusters remake is shit. literally nobody on the planet asked for or wanted a remake never mind the genitalia of the cast.
And the Star Wars sequels are shit. Again, nobody wanted (or was expecting) a remake of ANH which is what we got. You say TFA was pretty damn solid? Yeah, the kind of solid that doesn't flush.
So how are we to know if the animosity to these films is due to them being shit or due to fragile masculinity? Well there's only one other example I can think of where a male dominated franchise whad gender swapped roles and that is BSG and guess what, all those 'White males' seemed to love that. So why was everybody fine with taking the 'embodiment' of masculinity, a cigar chomping, womanising, Dirk Benedict and recasting them as female...? Because she was well written. Because she was well acted. Because she had flaws and depth. Do you see my point?
And as for Ocean's Eight - again, does *anybody* want another film in this franchise? 11 was fun but forgettable, 12 was excreta and I never saw 13. The last thing anybody wants is a remake of a remake but I can see now that any complains are going to be met with the usual bullshit. So so predictable.
I'm not saying fragile masculinity is the reason for those criticisms. I agree with you that Ghostbusters was shit. What I'm saying is the anti-SJW crowd focuses on the SJW aspects of that movie being its downfall, and those voices (such as Milo's) were loud enough to drown out the others who legitimately attacked the reasons why it was shit.
That voice has now continued on to Solo before the movie is even released. What has doomed this production revolves primarily around the poor casting choices along with the removal of Lord and Miller. But instead, the talking point is it's doomed because of Kathleen Kennedy's SJW agenda.
''That right there is the cardinal sin. If you take a male-dominant franchise and put women in it, then it's just part of an SJW agenda to emasculate men.''
Isn't it though? What other reason could people have to take a male-dominant franchise and replace the men with women? We don't do it the other way around. We don't make an Alien movie nowadays and put a male lead in there. There is no Pitch Perfect with a only male cast. Give me 1 reason why they would reboot/remake/sequelize a movie and replace all the men? You cannot say that gender doesn't matter in movies, but then defend this. Its having you cake and eating it.
Either you don't care about genders and you only care about good characters, or you think gender matters and want to see every franchise be female lead.
''Ghostbusters and Star Wars (specifically TLJ). Strangely, those are the only two franchises whose 'badness' was blamed on SJW politics.''
This is because the SJW bullshit in those 2 movies are woven into the story and impact the script, story and characters. Its not just side stuff, its embedded. And people are lashing out against it. Rightly so.
Uh, maybe you should look up what an SJW is, buddy. Because I have bad news for you - you, in fact, have things backwards. You are in fact supporting SJWs and spewing shit that sounds suspiciously & exactly like what an SJW would.
I totally agree. Instead of complaining about SJW politics which makes KK sound correct about their biases, they should just mention bad scripts for avoiding these movies.
But you can't separate the two, unfortunately. A huge problem with the sequels - arguably the biggest - is that they are built around a character that has come from nowhere, has nebulous motivation at best & needs no help from anyone (thus rendering the classic Star Wars group dynamic pointless) and this character only exists due to current year politics. I cringe a little inside whenever I see 'SJW' as it's as clunky an acronym as they come but there's no getting around it...
Ever since Anika Sarkeesian spoke her mind about some male-centric tropes in video games, male fans of all media have lost their damn minds
Yes that is a great landmark, thanks for reminding me. There are times I want to feel ashamed to be male, but then I remember I'm not like those douchebags.
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And I'm not sorry for the fact that I haven't contributed money to Rogue One, The Last Jedi or Solo. I'm also not sorry for the fact that I won't be contributing money to episode IX either.
Well, I skipped Rogue One mainly because of the obnoxious Jyn character, the useless nature of a prequel story we already know the ending to and the overall boring look of the film in trailers. Out of sheer, morbid curiosity I ended up watching Rogue One on Netflix a few months ago and...yep--it was crap, just as I expected. I can't believe so any people love Rogue One--even most of those who hate The Last Jedi and The Force Awakens seem to love Rogue One. To me, it was just as bad. I didn't see what was so special about it: boring storyline, poor writing, ZERO connection with ANY of the characters, zero chemistry between any of the characters, lame droid character, horrid CGI Tarkin who looked so fake that it was distracting every time he was onscreen and a lack of soul.
The only things I liked were Vader and some of the ship effects. That's about it.
I may watch The Last Jedi for free if it ever hits netflix and it will be out of curiosity once again. I won't pay for it, though--not even redbox.
Its basically to goad the few worst fans out and the religious nuts who are against homosexuals. Then create a news story and highlight their rantings as if its the minority.
Pure marketing going off the Ghostbusters 2016 model and upping the stakes.
Jon Kasdan only has credits because of who his father is.
Since Hollywood can't make decent movies to save their lives, all that's left is to push their social activism. Who cares who's screwing who and with what? Only 1.8% of people in the U.S. are gay.
But, studio execs and SJW "filmmakers" seem to think they get points for getting as many gay characters in their projects as possible. Social Media has become one of the most destructive forces ever in our society. It drives people to brainless activities just so they can earn positive hashtags, and avoid the negative ones.