MovieChat Forums > Star Wars: Episode IX - The Rise of Skywalker (2019) Discussion > when Jedi came out in '83 everyone thoug...

when Jedi came out in '83 everyone thought it sucked..

posted 5 years ago by bozo_500 (13233)
24 replies | jump to latest

..or did they?

I saw it but I wasn't aware. too young to notice reviews etc. In fact I wasn't interested at all in SW and hadn't seen the previous 2 (too young and not on TV yet and no VHS then) plus before the film they showed the trailer for Superman III which blew my mind as huge fan having seen Superman II at cinema and the 1st on TV and had no idea it was coming out so for the remainder of the weird sword&sorcery muppets&carebears in space movie all I could think about was Superman III

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1365) 5 years ago

I do not know what you are talking about.
Where are you getting this info from?
Everyone I knew liked it, I liked it as much as the other 2 when I saw it.

This sounds made up, kind of like when Rian Johnson was trying to say people didn't receive ESB well in 1980 but there was no internet.
That is just made up BS.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Did Johnson say that? LOL. It didn't make as much money as ANH, but that first SW movie was kind of revolutionary. No one had seen anything quite like it before. A lot of people actually thought Empire was a better movie than ANH, and still do, of course.

Empire set up a couple of really compelling storylines and character arcs for Jedi. Last Jedi actually wrapped up most of what the Force Awakens was trying to do and killed off two of the most key characters, while tearing down Luke Skywalker. People are bashing Abrams, but Johnson didn't leave him much to work with.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

Abrams didn't leave Johnson much to work with other then the same exact story as ANH? what the hell is Johnson supposed to follow that up with, a worse version of ESB? Why TFA gets such a pass and all blame gets but on Johnson and TLJ I'll never understand.

This is what TFA did that set up the fall for the rest of the trilogy:

- ruined the OT characters (Han loser regressed smuggler, Leia incompetent ineffectual general, Luke absent without good reason)
- reset the stakes to zero by returning the empire to the dominate force (and just renaming it First Order, thus negating the entirety of the OT plot); all without explanation or sensible reasoning (that it is possible) making it feel unearned. You get this 'it is just there deal with it' type of feel. "don't think just consume product".
- mary sue force lore breaking Rey (one of the worst characters ever put to screen); this "annoyingly good at everything" character that the plot bends over backwards (and breaks itself) to put her at the center of attention and never at a position of defeat or weakness.
- Turned the force into magic powers like magic system thus ruining the more mystical religious like feel of it
- was a complete and obvious rehash of the ANH plot almost to an absurd level.
- Did not provide likeable interesting characters to 'pass the torch' to. Finn had potential until they turned him into a bumbling side kick that had a personality not matching his background. Poe was supposed to die in the film and it shows. Leaving only Rey, who (see above for criticism).
-Weaker, wimpy pathetic versions of Vader and Tarkin. Plus Carbon cut out stand in for the Emperor; who was such a stand in character they got away with literally making him just a clone of the emperor.
- Bad scenes with bad acting (Rey meeting BB-8, Kylo and Snoke discussing Han scene, Hux speech, Maz's bar ) are just a few stand out.
-Horribly paced scenes, rushing from action scene to action scene (that also have terrible frame rate per

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

Yes, TFA had major flaws. I didn't have a problem with Han going back to smuggling, though. Given the situation, seemed believable. I'm not sure where you're coming from with your complaints about the force, either. Seemed like they got closer to what it was in the original trilogy and away from that Midi-chlorian nonsense from the prequels. They didn't talk about the mystical side of the force much, but we got a lot of that in the original trilogy.

If you didn't like how TFA handled the force, what did you think about TLJ, though? I mean, they pretty much outright dismissed a lot of the mysticism and philosophy of the force with Luke destroying those books and just waving away most of that stuff.

Anyway, I didn't mean to make it sound like TFA was some kind of masterpiece and TLJ ruined it. TLJ made everything much worse, though. TLJ felt almost like they were going out of their way to diminish what Lucas had done. People talk about Johnson and Kennedy having agendas, but I think ego was a big part of it, too. They don't want Lucas's trilogy overshadowing what they are doing.

TLJ didn't need to remake Empire. I don't know why you think I was suggesting that, or any of the movie's critics wanted that. It's not like Johnsons' options were either remake Empire or give us TLJ. There were a lot of possibilities there.

[–] arflexit (2376) 5 years ago

I did; I view Han going back to being a smuggler basically undoes his entire arc of the OT; IMO that is worse than what was done to Luck; because Luke was so different it was a like a different character but with Han they also make him confused and pathetic looking. I don't see it as believable that the guy we saw at the end of ROTJ would give up on his family like that.

My complaint with the force in TFA is that the magic system of star wars had boundaries and those boundaries were discussed in terms similar to that of mystic energy. TFA treats the force like Harry Potter magic that people can just conjure if they 'know the spells' sort of speak. That is why Rey can just 'know' how to do mind trick, it is a magic trick and not her calling on a mystic energy force. Shadevirstiy on Youtube does a good video discussing this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjGUph0dk_k&t=4s

To me, TLJ was just more of the same shit that TFA set up. I am constrained for time at the moment so I gotta go; but this seems like a conversation that can be fun to discuss; if I seem short or dismissive I apologize but I was typing at like 1000 words per second.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I remember it getting a pretty positive response. There certainly wasn't widespread disappointment, especially from the kids.

[–] Ziggy (1803) 5 years ago

No, fans did not hate Jedi. Many, however, did hate Empire at first.

[–] modica (4169) 5 years ago

Most people didn't like the merchandising of the Ewoks. Many thought they were just included in the story to make lots of money on the sale of toys.

[–] ATG6 (3000) 5 years ago

Actually, everyone loved it, but realized it wasn't as good as the first two. And we thought the Ewoks were an obvious toy market play. At least they weren't Jar-Jar Binks level stupid.