Considering how slavery was a rather casual matter in the US, with everybody knowing about and most people positively advocating/endorsing it, while Nazis did their best to keep their crimes hidden, it seems to be a valid thesis after all.
Like even today, modern "Nazis" are denying the Holocaust, even though one might assume that it's something they should supposedly be proud of...
You should replace "US" with "world" at the beginning, and start over from there, maybe you will avoid the twilight zone.
shareThere is one difference between current Germans and SOME current southerners. Every German I have talked to say that what the Nazi's did to the Jews was wrong. When I talk to SOME southerners they say there was nothing wrong with slavery. Hard to believe but it's true. They have no clue. The Holocaust was wrong and so was slavery. At least to civilized people.
share"German has paid $61.8 billion to jewish victims, to this day the United States hasn't pay $1 to African-Americans for 400 years of brutal slavery." - [8Fact]
shareI guess almost every culture has some dark past. This isn't a number's games so one cannot say who was crueler. This very movie was tough for me to watch. There were many moments I just though "Kill. Them. All" and there was something that was making me sick to be "one of them", as being white (although I know it wasn't me per se; it was just so horrible watching what men is capable of). But then again, evil is evil. No matter what color, gender or ethics or religion. To quote a famous German cabaret artist named Volker Pispers: "There are *beep* believing in God and there are *beep* believing in Alah. But that has nothing to do with religion. An *beep* is an *beep* Period."
The US of A weren't "worse" than the Third Reich. Both, and even more countries, had cruel men pulling strings. The USA had the luck to have states and people going against such cruelty. It was a young state with its vast lands and lots of people with different cultural background and different moralities. Good for them (as nation) they had a lot of people going against slavery. But it's almost unbelievable how long black people were underprivileged even after ending the slavery. As for Germany... it was broken after the WW1 so Hitler showed up at the "right time" using his (only) skills to make his madness come reality. So he could "unite" a whole nation and inject his cruelty among almost everyone.
There is no "worse" in this. Both nations and many others had and still have cruel men who deserve nothing but justice.
It does raise a question mark in the subject.. Before any us citizen open their mouth about german nazi period he/she should take a look at their own. Not only the slavery is a shame but also how the US treated the native indians.
Anyway - the movie was great even if it made me sick time to time.
Absolutely right .
Every form of slave power over a man is shameful. Today or at any time in human history.
It is unbelievable to think that there are people today who use the Bible to justify such crimes. As if the Bible were the perfect example of human behavior and justice thesis.
The Bible was written by men, sinners, say by the way
Hate is a horrible thing. It's poisonous. And that includes hate for those people that do despicable things.
These slave owners had better reason and cause to do what they did. At the point in which this film takes place, these slave owners were ignorant to their ugly character. They were raised to think this was the norm. It was no different than a British gentleman punishing a servant by throwing them out in the cold to die.
Also, as I keep trying to tell you people, times were different then. They were using slaves like we use electronics. They used this cheap labor to make their lives easier.
The Nazis exterminated Jews as if they were cockroaches.
There's a big difference.
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Go to the board of virtually any major release on IMDB starring or about blacks, and do a quick mental running tally of thread titles on the first page that pops up. I think you'll consistently find "stupid" threads, ranting racists threads (from people who have absolutely no intention of actually even seeing the films in question), and especially, almost no threads discussing the actual content of the films themselves, close to 90% of the time.
I know, because I've randomly done it a few times.
The almost universal consistency of the pattern all across IMDB is actually kind of creepy.
Do keep in mind the bible is a work of fiction, /// true
essentially fairy tales, /// not quite, but close enough
but more like the first attempt at a living guide for a primitive people of the day who didnt know right from wrong. /// Disagree totally. Morals come from Darwinian evolution....thats how we identify so much of the Bible as being wrong.
It brought people very far from very chaotic living to a much more organized "god fearing" public. /// No. People lived together mostly in clans that were peaceful and quite happy to believe in Nature Spirits. Single Humanoid God Notions developed from that, not to bring peace such as it is which was already part of our nature.
Of course they had to use the invention of a god, an ever present entity who is all seeing, to get people to really change (or they would have just done crimes in secret). /// Again....no....on several levels.
It was quite genius really, the idea of God to control the masses. /// No. Just a variation on the status quo that somehow has stuck in our cultural meme.
Whoever the ones that thought it all up and wrote it into a cohesive book, well it was centuries ahead of its time at the least. /// Cohesive? Not even after that group put the various unrelated scrolls together. Accepting some, rejecting many. No, the Bible is very disjointed giving different accounts of the same transaction. Revealing the christian god as nothing but conflicted and contradictory. Fairytales are actually much more tightly executed.
People were so stupid and superstitious back then, ready to follow anything which would lead them. /// Same religion and same stupidity even today. People haven't changed much over our evolved existence.
It would have taken a completely opposite kind of mind for the time to realize they could take control of this opportunity and create a leading God figure that everyone would believe was real and follow. But while this was all very revolutionary at the time and helpful to create rules and order (besides all the religion based warring), to still believe in a god and writings in the bible today is just silly. It made sense perhaps up until we started to develop real technology, at the very latest. But especially by our current standards and understanding of elements, the human body, diseases, planets, solar system and beyond, the world at an atomic scale, and so on, it makes little sense to still believe and follow such now antiquated texts. /// And yet, the great majority of humans do. Should be a load of cognitive dissonance whenever anyone considers the "common sense" of "people."
Religion: a social construct. More variable and nonsensical than most. I do still wonder why it has such a grip in as you say this modern scientific age. Too bad we will kill ourselves mostly off before the generations lose this shackle.
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Well what about Roman and Greek times, which seemed so violent and you could get away with murder or anything. /// Arguing by "sweeping generality" is never good. EVERY society of man (ie any group of two or more people) has rules that are sufficient for themselves. Were the Greeks and Romans more violent than WW1 or WW2, or the Civil War....etc. My own generality: 99% of societies have the 10 Commandments in variation as the basis for their societies. Its self organizing like Darwin: if you go around mindlessly/moral less killing everyone...then you don't have a society and you die out and are never known. The 1% exception are those stone age tribes in deep jungles that would lie, kill, and steal etc...except not so much as to destroy themselves. See how that has ALWAYS worked?
The difference being they also had rules/governing powers but it wasnt the same as when a peon believed a God was actually watching him /// I agree, but closer than God is the person himself expressing and living by their own values. Lots of genocide and murder in the Bible. So as with any Judeo/Christian discourse, you are picking some parts and rejecting many others.
so if he went to kill someone in secret "he" would still know. /// Very few secretes in small family/tribal/village units.
Surely the times before were not so peaceful. /// A shift in subject from "the nature of man and the need/impact of God belief" to the peacefulness of times. Lots of overlap...but lots of difference. You'll have to drill down to specifics and then link or differentiate cause and effect.
Im not advocating god/bible in any way but doesnt it credit some people to "become" more peaceful out of fear of doing evil and not getting to heaven. /// Some people? Sure. And the very same stimulus drives some people to just the opposite. So...you have to sum up all the effects both pro and cons. Hard to do, even if we are talking modern times.
I agree however that our world currently has too much population and not enough resources, we will end up having some kind of global scale self-created apocalypse which will be the ultimate way the herd is thinned. /// I'm think co2 pollution will collapse society 100-200 years from now "depending" on what we do. NOT an issue of not enough resources but just the opposite: over utilizing (as in burning" the resources we have in abundance (as in 75% of known hydro carbon resources need to be left in the ground or we will poison the entire bioshpere)
Im just hoping the oil lasts during my lifetime /// thats exactly what will kill your children.....so much for Gods handiwork.
and America and 3rd world countries can battle it out in the meantime, but leaving the public (at least in America) mostly unaware of its effects besides gas prices and such. /// Your analysis is fractured.
But once it runs out, thats gonna be the first sure time when things will start to really become chaotic and the whole system, government, law, will likely collapse. The only way it wont is if they really find/use other energy sources, one such being truly go nuclear and run the whole country on nuclear plants, which in turn can charge your electric car at home. /// Nuke is not renewable so fatally flawed for any long term solution. Don't even need to consider poisonous waste or terrorist targer.
Or discover a proper efficient alternate energy source, such as those Helium 3 ideas they talk about on the moon (if it would even work, that is). /// The solutions are "known" and its really an issue of recognition and investment against vested interests...... and "timing." The time to avoid calamity is just about NOW and we still haven't recognized/accepted the issue. The best case right NOW is that we are on the Titanic and have spotted the iceberg. But we are too big to turn or avoid...and instead are only adding speed.
You've got some reading to do. Should be fun for you....new ideas displacing the old.
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LOL man, why do you have to pick apart every sentence and battle it? /// I agreed and disagreed, no uniform response. Its how a dialectic analysis proceeds...as opposed to disjointed generalities.
Theres no winning with you. /// Of course there is....in fact, its what I look for.
I was trying to be somewhat on your side // I don't have a "side."
reading this reply but then I got to "Your analysis is fractured" which leads me to conclude you think yourself a mastermind of intelligence /// hmmmmm...the direct connection would be to think about whether or not YOUR ANALYSIS IS FRACTURED ...or not? "Being Wrong" and recognizing it is the best start of forming a better idea. All lost when you personalize the exchange and then only look to attack the other person.
that no one can compete with. /// ..... and "you" are everyone? Ha, ha. Of course YOU and compete, if a competition this is. Just argue more on point and factually and you will come closer to both of us gaining a better understanding of the issues presented.
You are the only right /// I goal is to be "right" but I welcome all others who wish to be as well.
and everyone else is wrong /// where to you get from making general sweeping unconnected statements to eveyone else is wrong? Lots of assumptions made there.
many levels below you. /// ha, ha......is that your recognition about yourself? I think so. Use it as a stepping stone to improve.
There is no opinion but your! /// Well, by definition we have your opinion and my opinion. That makes two. Why haven't you responded with where my opinion is wrong or could be better stated? You don't make very much sense.
Perhaps... you want to be god? /// Human is burden enough.
And again I hope you dont think I believe in god/religion because I got the feeling a bit that you think my replies had me believing or favoring religion. /// So ego centric. I respond to what you write...not what you imagine I think you believe.
But its the opposite, I am only trying to state that religion is pointless /// Religion is the cause of a lot of misery, prevents progress, and within its contemplation tells us something very important about the nature of man.
however trying to see a few possible positive effects on societies it may have had. /// Of course, everything has elements of good and bad. Hitler provided full employment and got the trains to run on time.
But nope, according to you dont even try to argue such things. /// I argued in response to what you posted.
Well thank you demi-god lord ruler of IMDB forums, you have spoken! A peasant fractured mind such as mine will not try to question your omnipotence again. A thousand apologies *bows and backs out of room asian style* /// Poor you. Perceiving you "lost" an argument rather than recognize you never entered into one.
Typical hooman.
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You remind me of the guy with *beep* on his mustache: looking for love in all the wrong places.
Ha, ha.....at least I still crack myself up.
I do feel your pain bro. Not getting what you think you want.
Still NOT providing any counter at all to any factual statement I have made. Why don't you educate both of us?==>what was the death rate during the Greek and Roman times that having a Judeo Christian religion would have prevented? That was your original point as I recall. THEN we will only have to compare that rate to the same metric in todays terms and then appreciate how the Pax Romana plays into this.
I'll patiently wait for your reply.
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Nope, Im done with this. I dont come to IMDB to battle factual information about history or otherwise. /// Each to their own as they may decide.
Besides, you can find supposed experts who would provide 'factual' sources on EITHER side of an argument like this. /// Yes, and then if warranted one turns to the credibility of such sources and if that does not reach resolution, or as an excellent alternative, one can resort to hypotheticals such as: "Lets assume that when the Monotheistic God became the accepted religion throughout the early middle ages in Europe, there was a reduced incidence of murder and mayhem by private parties. What then? Seems to me the more relevant question at hand would still remain: Does God Exist? You see the disjunction.
Its not a 2+2=4 kind of simple fact. /// Well, when you make a claim based on changes in statistical occurence, that is certainly a simple fact BASED on the evidence. On such a cliam, when you actually have no facts at all but only a conclusionary statement to make, then indeed facts don't matter at all. When you said Religion brought peace to the post Greek and Roman societies, were you making a factual claim....or not?
Your choosing one side does not make it correct, /// thats true.
even providing 'facts' as proof, its an unwinnable debate. /// thats not true.
Anyway I wont keep replying, too tired of this. /// with practice, comes stamina.
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I suppose you missed how free blacks were in other parts of the country. This was not a nationwide practice. As you may be aware, there was a war in this country over this issue.
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