MovieChat Forums > The Hunter (2011) Discussion > Muddled mess of a movie

Muddled mess of a movie


Extremely disappointing movie with an ending that was so illogical it made me go “What the…?”

A company wants the Tasmanian Tiger so bad that they will (despite their own best interests and logic) kill an environmentalist because he MIGHT have seen one once a few years ago (according to his daughter) and will incinerate a mother and child (even though they were able to break in and steal the coordinates from Martin’s desk without waking anyone) will now respond to Martin’s final actions with “Oh, he found it’s den and killed it. That’s a wrap guys! Call off the hunt.” That’s just silly.

I have three major problems with this movie.

1.) Martin was a little bit of a loner in the beginning and not so much at the end. I love subtle but this arc was nearly non-existent, muddled and unnecessary.

2.) The company’s logic is stupefying. Why would anyone bother to kill the environmentalist or his family? It’s an unnecessary risk. It’s not like the Armstrong’s were keeping a pet Tazzy Tiger in the backyard and weren’t sharing it. To that point, if Martin decided he didn’t want to hunt it, then they just would hire another hunter. It’s not like he ran off with their money. Where’s the motivation for anything the company was doing?

3.) The ending; Martin decides to kill the last of the species to keep the company from getting it?!!?!? That’s nuts! Why not just have him go native out there protecting it from other hunters?!? How does he even know it’s the last one, that doesn’t make sense? Others have mentioned the possible medical benefits its body might provide, but what about just saving it for the sake of saving it?

And don’t get me started on Sam Neill’s muddled story line. Not his fault, great actor but was he friends with loggers, sexually interested in Ms. Armstrong, working for the company (and complicate)?!?!?!?

The story is just so busy making its point that it fails to tell a coherent story.

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I don't get how you all found this so complicated. The Missing father wasn't just a scientist/activist but was working for the company (red leaf) that was looking for the animal. Sam Neill's character wasn't working for the company but was contacted by the company posing as the college to help Martin get situated. He called them because Martian was getting in the way of his personal issues. It was most likely the loggers who killed the father because he was causing them to lose jobs. The second hunter killed the family to cover red leafs tracks. Extreme but not really a stretch.

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Disagree. I just saw this on DVD and was pleasantly surprised by how good it was.

As for your points. I mean it is your personal view, granted. However, my take would be:

1. I don't even understand why you make this point. Loner Who is Befriended By Family, that is almost cliche, in life and movies.

2. Why kill the environmentalist? They want to get samples without alerting authorities or other companies. They need discretion. They kill the environmentalist because he might blab, they do it in a remote area so that people think he just had an accident and will never be found. Why kill the family? There is no reason but that doesn't mean a professional killer might not just do it for fun, and leave no evidence, after all it was just an "accident" anyway.

3. What are his choices? If he leaves the tiger he will now have to fight each new hunter who will come after him (he is a loose end) or the boy (because he is a way of putting pressure on Martin). If the tiger lives the toxin will become a bioweapon, the boy might die, Martin definitely will die. Kill the last tiger, make it extinct and the feasibility of their project is gone.

I actually thought the story was, at last, sufficiently complex to get my attention. I had previously watched "The Fountain", meh, pretending to be complex and subtle when it was anything but.

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lol evilpete-1 you try and act all cool and smart as you think you have found out these valid plot hole points...but newsflash...you havent...since you saying the father worked with redleaf and got killed because of it, that doesnt explain why redleaf will send a mercenery to burn his family to the grounds alot later...why didnt they do it right after they killed the fater instead of months later...there is no meaning whatsoever with this action and sure he could have done it for fun but I dont buy that theory either...proffesional mercenaries doesnt do things like that for fun...and in the book the house burns down by accident and not by another mercenary...the flaws with this movie is the changes from the book to the movie...cause they havent made a very smart script or they thought the audience wouldnt use their brains and see these valid flaws.

~If the realistic details fails, the movie fails~

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I really enjoyed this movie while I was viewing it, so was a bit skeptical of your subject.

You do raise valid points about some implausible elements. But then again if we toss out all implausibility and make it about a well behaved company looking for medicine then we have no conflict and no story. I appreciate not having every piece of plot buttoned up to fit a screenplay mold.

I didn't catch the name on the RedLeaf stationery, so I wasn't sure if it was the dead father or Sam Neill, but I simply accepted this was the key revelation for M.

I found the 'tiger' interesting and realistic, at least as realistic as an extinct creature could be. I think they made use of enhanced footage of the 1930's animal.

The children and their interaction with Dafoe was charming, and the lisping girl seems like she can really act. The other highlight is in the scenery and the many non-dialogue scenes where we watch M make his preparations, survive the elements, build his traps, and play his tricks.

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I thought the movie was good but I find this message board to be a muddled mess though - it's difficult trying to follow a long thread here.

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The last Tiger was spotted some time ago, Red Leaf caught wind of it before the competition and hired 'The Environmentalist' to track and kill it for its unique properties which it seeks to exploit for profit before the competition or authorities stifle their plans. Yes, 'The environmentalist' was also a hunter hired by this same company, Red Leaf, to track down the Tiger for these purported properties - he went rogue (or did you miss those parts?). Red Leaf had him killed to protect their commercial interests. They then had his wife stupefied on drugs through the "guide" to keep her from properly pursuing her husband's fate and making public his link with Red Leaf and by extension protect them from inquiry by the authorities.

The Rival Hunter was sent to deal with Dafoe - whom they feared had also gone rogue, after the tip-off front the guide - with the remit to kill him and salvage and complete his work. He killed the remainder of 'The Environmentalist's' family because of their association with Dafoe. This would stifle any investigation into his disappearance by the authorities.

He killed the last tiger to stop Red Leaf sending out more goons, or did you miss that part too?

Dafoe was a loner in his trade, there was no indication as to what his personal life and feelings were thus allowing for the soft spot which he developed for the family.

Bear1027. Your review is rubbish. Sorry to break it to you but it is. I realise some people need everything spelled out for them in films because their attention to detail is as deficient as their imaginations (if reviews like this are anything to go by) but it just takes the biscuit when they slate a movie because of these deficiencies.

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"He killed the last tiger to stop Red Leaf sending out more goons, or did you miss that part too? "

Not really. It would have been as easy to give Evil Read Leaf "They" what "They" wanted (Tiger DNA, or the paralytic agent, etc.) After all, that's what he was hired to do.

So we have to look to other motives. Like, Evil "They" benefitting, especially from their patent protection. Humanity unwittingly benefitting from the resultant drugs, when in fact these would be morally tainted. And also, the ultimate eco horror: the evolutionary advantage of the extinct tiger used for humanity's benefit.

This movie is a joke. Good thing they hid the plot for so long.

Don't you ever get tired of yet another "Evil Corporation" with "Evil They" in it?

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Im just going to go ahead and assume all of the idiots who have described this movie as 'muddled' or a 'joke' either dont have the mental ability to follow an exceptional movie or have deep rooted social issues causing them to miss emotional checkpoints in this film. It's that or they simply arent used to watching decent acting.

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I'm going to assume that people who call others idiots without providing a single substantive point are hiding their own idiocy.

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People who cant recognize decent movies or substantive points, are idiots, no assumption needed.

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My major gripe with the movie is the premise itself. As in, why would a company try to harvest the tiger's organs to create a paralytic agent when we already have several chemical agents that cause paralysis? Are we to believe that the Tasmanian Tiger's harvested organs could lead to the creation of a new paralytic agent that is so much superior to existing chemical agents that it justifies paying people money to go to the trouble of finding the elusive animal and also murdering people?

BE YOUR OWN FANBOY

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really? That's your issue? The McGuffin of the film is what bothers you? Don't you get, what they wanted the animal for is really of little consequence- and the fact that they want it to create something that already exists makes the theme of the film that much more profound. This corporation is willing to destroy this creature- wipe it from existence, simply to get another paralytic? That's the state of the corporate world, these days.

But to get hung up on the McGuffin of a story is really just a waste of time. Indiana Jones could have chased after a rabbit's foot for all we care- it's about the adventure. The story is the journey, not the prize. Hell, they could have said some corporation wanted it as a rare exhibit. Or because they wanted to revive the species. Any of these reasons would work because none of them really matter in the end.

Why do people want everything explained? Everyone gets bogged down with the details and then when the creators stop explaining past a certain point, suddenly you shout "plot hole!"

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Sorry, but what Indiana Jones was chasing after is part of what makes those movies (the early ones anyways) what they were. If he was running around shooting people and using his whip to escape precarious situations just to get a rabbit's foot, no one would care. A big part of why people watch movies is because of the stakes at risk.

As for "the corporate world these days", they don't tend to have any scruples but corporations tend to be pretty good at cost/benefit analysis. They won't go to the trouble of killing people and everything else that was done in the movie by the company just to create something that already exists.

BE YOUR OWN FANBOY

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Sorry, but what Indiana Jones was chasing after is part of what makes those movies (the early ones anyways)


yes and no. I agree, the Lost Ark was a great McGuffin, but had you switched it with the Holy Grail, but kept the same story, it would still be a great film. So while the object in the film was a great one, it was not... wait, better way to explain it. Had Raiders ended with the faces melting, the bodies disappearing and the Ark imploding and Indy walked away with nothing, aside from that great final shot of the crate being wheeled into oblivion, would the film have been any worse? I say it would not. Because the Ark was not the story. Nor are the Death Star Plans or the Princess. Or the case of money in No Country for Old Men. The Ark was a great McGuffin, because the stakes were high, but make it an Atom Bomb or a super-virus, something where the stakes were comparable, and you'd still have the same general story.

And with regards to the other statement- if the thing that exists would result in more money for a corporation- like millions on millions, you don't think they'd kill? If companyA could manufacture the same item as companyB using item x to make it with, and using item x would be 100 times cheaper, meaning companyA can make a much bigger profit resuting in billions in sales, do you think they'd pass just because item x already exists? And as far as killing- there are people in this world who are willing to kill loved ones over $50,000 life insurance policies. Do you doubt a corporation would kill a few faceless individuals to make billions?

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Ok, so you exchange the Lost Ark for the Holy Grail to make your argument? Come on. Those are both the same caliber of MacGuffin that would warrant extensive cost in order to acquire because of how unique they are as well as their incredible historic value. A paralytic that has no unique or historical value on the other hand doesn't warrant murder.

And, yes, I believe corporations would kill for billions of dollars. My point is that creating ANOTHER paralytic in a world where many already exist wouldn't get this corporation the "billions" that would justify murder.

BE YOUR OWN FANBOY

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I think you and I agree in the real world, but disagree on film. Nothing you're saying is really "wrong" and I'm not saying you are. What I'm saying is, from the insular world of the film's story, these reasons/objects are given just as a way to motivate the story, but they are really not "the story". So for Raiders to work, seeing as the Nazis were chasing after world domination, sure, the object the sought needed to be big. So you could not replace the Ark with the sled from Citizen Kane (or a stupid ass Crystal Skull (wtf!/! who thought THAT was a good idea?), but it did not have to be the Ark and the story could have been the same. So the McGuffin is not as important as what the implications surrounding it are. In The Hunter, the compoud was presented as important- as kill worthy. In real life, why care? But in the film's world, that's how they say it is, so you are asked to accept that and then watch the story that unfolds IF that first fact was true.

Sorry, kind of fuzzy minded right now, so I know my point isn't crystal clear.

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Your point makes sense whether you are fuzzy minded or not but I respectfully disagree.

The hypothetical importance in the real world of what the protagonist is going after in a story is important. The reason is that the protagonist in a story isn't always going after something that is eminently important. Sometimes there are stories where the protagonist goes after something they don't fully want and that they don't fully commit themselves to. That allows the story to go in various potential directions. Maybe the protagonist realizes they don't want the object as much as they thought or conversely that they realize they haven't committed themselves enough to, but the object of want in a story is not always a Macguffin that the protagonist wants above all else and is willing to do anything for. As such, when a storyteller establishes that the object is not pivotal based on it's real life value, it's sensible for the audience to question why characters in the story are going to no end to achieve said unnecessary objects.

BE YOUR OWN FANBOY

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Good point. I'm just happy to hear people care that much about the story. I guess my way of thinking doesn't reflect what I desire, only the cynical observations I've made. I would love people to pay closer attention to stories and such because it means people care.

You look at a big film like Transformers, where... each film has had some cube or orb or... thingy that the nitwit human constantly runs after and in each film that object serves no logical purpose-- hell, in the one it killed the bad guy, then the next film it gave life. But the masses just did not care (I was pulling my hair out). The same with the last two Star Trek films, or look at James Bond- the last film he needed some list, but that only set the plot in motion, it had no real effect on the story. These are the MacGuffins I'm used to. The ones I'm thinking of in my replies.

But you're right- in a good story, the MacGuffin can and should be important or, at the very least, logical. I think, in a quality film like The Hunter, the lack of that logic really hurts the film.

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This movie aside, I'm really glad to have been able to communicate with you about this movie (or anything for that matter). You seem like a very intelligent and conscientious (those two characteristics rarely are within the same person in my experience) person. I honestly have my doubts about our species. People like you give me hope. 

Cheers!!!

BE YOUR OWN FANBOY

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Same here. It's nice to disagree with a person and not have them instantly revert to childish antics or just calling you a troll. It's also nice to have my way of thinking reshaped by a good debate. I mean, old habits die hard, so I'll probably still think with my old mindset, but your points really made sense in a "why not look at it this way..." kind of way, rather than a "no way! you are wrong! the correct answer is..." way.

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I saw nothing wrong with the storyline but I am not a stuck up snob either. You don't get why the company killed the family? Maybe to send a message... no different than the mob or any other greedy thugs or organization. As for Martin protecting the Tasmanian tiger, how about you wake up and realize that people can't protect anything. If we could every endangered species would not be endangered in the first place.

How do you think animals become endangered to begin with? Man! You don't hear about animal being endangered due to other animals now, do you?

Last, why not enjoy a movie for the sake of the movie? It was good with an interesting storyline. Picking it apart for the sake of picking it apart because you are cynical is pretty lame. Excuse a few flaws, and you might realize that this is a pretty entertaining movie with a fairly original story. You would understand that if you were not coming into the movie all uptight with your head up your butt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TMTkedIUX8U

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Methinks perhaps you are trying too hard to find fault with an otherwise well put together movie. I mean, I have my thoughts about the possible lack of a linear story line but the script is constructed in such a way that I believe renders the disconnects as something less than important. The movie is about relationships and finding a greater purpose in one's life. You can't say what a major bio-tech company is willing to do in the frontier-esque land that Tasmania is. Sam Neill's character is clearly a well meaning yet highly confused yocal. What more needs to be understood about his character? The reason for eliminating that supposed last tiger was also clearly laid out in the dialog that Martin spoke toward Jamie and later in the dialog between Martin and Lucy. I would suggest that you simply accept the direction that the movie makers wished to go in order to make their point. I think the reason that you are having problems understanding the direction of the film is because you haven't quite grasped what the film makers were trying to get across..

Which brings me to your first objection: Martin is a loner, indeed. This is central to the theme and is the engine of the movie. This fact is precisely what gives the ending it's considerable power. This is one of the major points of the movie, my friend; his transformation. You see it as an inconvenient "arch" yet it is the most transcendental feature of the movie. How did you miss that?

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