I'll play the race card. Race is important. Should a white person play Martin Luther King Jr in a movie about the civil rights fights? Should a black person play Genghis Kahn? Should a Chinese person play the role of Crazy Horse? NO. Not because it racist, but because it doesn't make any sense, unless they have a really good make-up job to make them look the race of the person they are playing.
I understand the point you're trying to make, but I'd have to disagree with these examples being equated to Roland. In
The Dark Tower, the only people that appear to be affected by race are the ones Roland has drawn, because they're all from the U.S., a place where a societal construct based on race exists. And even so, it's only truly salient for O/Detta/Susannah, whose race profoundly affected almost all aspects of her life: her family, how she was treated, how she treated others, etc. According to how Stephen King describes Mid-World, no such societal structure exists where Roland is from. There are definitely hierarchies based on gender, standing, and wealth, but not one based on race. This is why Roland's reaction to the reason behind Detta's slur-filled rants is one of indifference and confusion.
On the other hand, the examples you gave - Martin Luther King Jr., Genghis Khan, and Crazy Horse - are all different from Roland. Not only are they people who existed in real life, but their races were very significant to their backgrounds, their interactions with others, and their famous (and infamous) exploits.
Long story short, you're right - it wouldn't make sense to change the races of those in your examples for a movie. However, while King did describe Roland's physical features in detail (with somewhat variable consistency), race is essentially negligible when it comes to what kind of bearing it had on his character overall. Now this is not to say that I wouldn't like to see Roland appear as he's written in the books; I wouldn't be opposed to that at all. But Idris Elba playing Roland can still make sense in the context of the story.
Roland Deschain is not black. He is white. Nobody in his family is black. Nobody where he grew up was black. Not a racism thing. But it is a race thing. Odetta has to be black. Better not have a white person play her part! And as many have pointed out, race and racism is a factor between Odetta and Roland (and the fact that she is from the 1960's and civil rights fight era).
You're right, the way Roland is described in the books, he's what we would consider to be white. As for no one in his family being black (or any other race, for that matter), you're right about his immediate family and presumably about his grandparents, who are mentioned in the books. But since we're not given complete details about his family's lineage, we can't really say for sure that all of his ancestors in the 27 generations between Roland's grandfather and Arthur Eld were white. Also, there was one person mentioned in Roland's childhood that had dark skin: Hax the cook. If I remember correctly, he was described as having skin the color of crude oil. That being the case, if there's one dark-skinned person there, then it would make sense that there would be others, especially since the barony of Garlan is west of Gilead.
As for O/Detta/Susannah, I agree that she should be black, mainly because of the significance of her race to her character, as I described above. Also, there are the issues of whitewashing and the representation of POC in film. As I and a few others have mentioned elsewhere on the board, there are shamefully few protagonists of color - especially black female protagonists - in the sci-fi and fantasy genres. In this case, casting a white actress to play O/Detta/Susannah would be a significant loss in regard to the representation of black women in sci-fi and fantasy. On the contrary, each addition of a black female protagonist to either of these genres is very noticeable and makes a significant difference. The same goes for other actors of color. On the other side of that coin, there are countless white protagonists in the sci-fi and fantasy genres. That being the case, occasionally adding or removing a white protagonist would be pretty negligible in comparison. Now this doesn't mean that I think filmmakers should just start casting POC all willy-nilly, without respect to a character's background, culture, and experiences. But in cases of characters like Roland, where their backgrounds, cultures, and experiences aren't dependent on his or her race, I think it's okay to occasionally cast POC in those roles.
Maybe it should be a woman playing it. Anybody can be anything now, right? Or are you sexist?
Who knows? Maybe Roland
is a woman on another level of the Tower, just as he's black on the level of the Tower that will be depicted in the movie. :)
reply
share
jbaronde-660-839046
9 years ago
Genghis Khan- Genghis Khan's legacy has nothing to do with race. He just happened to be from Mongolia and conquered most of the known world at the time. He could have been any other race and had the same story happen. But it would be a different story. I don't agree that any of my real life examples are different from anyone. If it didn't make a difference writers would describe characters. They'd say "(imagine whatever race or looks you wish this character to be, it doesn't have anything to add or subtract from the story so I'm not going to spend time describing them to you, especially what race they are because that would be unfair to the races I don't pick)"
My point is that race makes a difference. No one is writing a new story here. Write 1000 new stories with black protagonists. That would be wonderful. This one is already written. This will be a different story from the ones I read by simply having the main character of the entire books not be who was described.
You're right. I don't know what race Roland's multiple generations of ancestry might be. But then you are being to cerebral about it. That's silly. You are going through a lot of tedious trouble and time to argue against something that isn't that complicated.
I don't want to watch a different story about a different level of the Tower. I want to watch a show about the one written about in the books.
I bet it doesn't end the same....if enough of the books actually get funded to be made to make it to the end.
reply
share
sugrnspyce4
9 years ago
Genghis Khan- Genghis Khan's legacy has nothing to do with race. He just happened to be from Mongolia and conquered most of the known world at the time. He could have been any other race and had the same story happen.
You're right, Genghis Khan could've been any other race and had the same infamous exploits, but he wasn't any other race. According to the widely-circulated descriptions and depictions of him, he was racially and ethnically a northeast Asian from Mongolia. Besides, if you don't consider Genghis Khan's race to be significant, then I have to wonder why you brought him up in the first place.
I don't agree that any of my real life examples are different from anyone. If it didn't make a difference writers would describe characters. They'd say "(imagine whatever race or looks you wish this character to be, it doesn't have anything to add or subtract from the story so I'm not going to spend time describing them to you, especially what race they are because that would be unfair to the races I don't pick)"
But the thing is, your examples are different from Roland (which you admitted to the other poster who responded). Roland is a fictional character whose race is a non-factor to everyone except for O/Detta/Susannah, while the others you mentioned were real people whose races were significant to their lives. And in the case of
The Dark Tower, yes, Stephen King did describe the gunslinger in detail. And yes, the descriptions that authors give us do help us picture the character they've created and bring him or her to life. However, when it comes to this movie adaptation, that very same Stephen King also said the color of the gunslinger doesn't matter to him - what he really cares about is how fast Roland can draw and that he takes care of his ka-tet. In other words, there are many aspects of the gunslinger as a character which make him uniquely Roland that have nothing to do with his appearance.
My point is that race makes a difference. No one is writing a new story here. Write 1000 new stories with black protagonists. That would be wonderful. This one is already written. This will be a different story from the ones I read by simply having the main character of the entire books not be who was described.
In Roland's case, his race only makes a difference when O/Detta/Susannah is introduced; from what I remember, it isn't relevant to anything or anyone before or after that particular part of the story. And yes, this adaptation will be different from the story we read in the books, but if you've been keeping up with the news that's trickled out about the screenplay and the casting*, the changes definitely don't begin and end with Idris Elba playing Roland.
(*If you're not aware: Roland is supposedly starting out with the Horn of Eld; the first movie's story focusing on Jake; Sayre, Pimli Prentiss, and a barely-mentioned "low man" named Tirana have been cast; etc.)
You're right. I don't know what race Roland's multiple generations of ancestry might be. But then you are being to cerebral about it. That's silly. You are going through a lot of tedious trouble and time to argue against something that isn't that complicated.
Honestly, I haven't gone to great lengths or done anything excessive to make my point. Since all of the things I've mentioned can easily be found with a simple Google search and/or on the Dark Tower Wiki page, I don't consider the details I've mentioned to be "too cerebral," "tedious," or "complicated."
I don't want to watch a different story about a different level of the Tower. I want to watch a show about the one written about in the books.
I bet it doesn't end the same....if enough of the books actually get funded to be made to make it to the end.
Well, that's kind of the beauty of it - you don't have to watch it if you don't want to, and it doesn't change the original story we all know and love. It's still possible that someone might come along and reboot the film series if this one isn't successful (or even if it is successful, considering how much Hollywood seems to like its remakes nowadays), so we might still get an adaptation closer to the source material one day. But seeing that many people have said they didn't like the series' ending, a different ending would be a plus to a lot of them.
reply
share
rkburgess-36073
9 years ago
They are changing it / ruining it simply because they can which is bad enough, but what's a hundred times worse is King actually allowing them to ruin his magnum opus.
Just sat here quietly in the corner of Stephen Kings imagination.
reply
share
sugrnspyce4
9 years ago
They are changing it / ruining it simply because they can which is bad enough, but what's a hundred times worse is King actually allowing them to ruin his magnum opus.
As I've said before, sure, it will definitely be different from the story we know from the books, but we won't actually know if it's good, bad, or mediocre until we've seen it for ourselves. Concerning all the changes, there might actually be a method to the madness that we won't be aware of until we see the finished product. Whatever the case, I, for one, am choosing to give it a chance. And the way I figure it, if King doesn't mind, then I shouldn't either.
reply
share