MovieChat Forums > The Dark Tower (2017) Discussion > What next? Godzilla replace by a chicken...

What next? Godzilla replace by a chicken?

posted 8 years ago by Saul_Coulson
78 replies | jump to latest

The casting of a black actor to play the role of Roland 'The Gun Slinger' Deschain is an absoulute joke. Political correctness once again at its finest. Im all for equal rights and all that mindless babble people of this day and age seem to bang on about but this is absoulutley just pathetic.

Idris Elba is a great actor, I wont dispute that. My issue is not with Idris Elba, my issue lies with a white main character being replace by a black man? I mean for these deluded fools that argue "where does it say he's white" read the actual books correctly and pay attention. Blue bombadier eyes. White. WHITE.. not black? I Mean what an absoulute joke? Whats next? Is Susannah going to be chinese on crutches? Is Eddie Dean going to he homosexual? Is Jake going to be 30 years old?

All the comments stating directors etc have said they arent interested in the complaints of the loyal fans to this amazing story such as myself should be ashamed! I wont be paying a penny towards the box office earnings of this film and I hope it flops massively to prevent any more being produced.

Heres an idea why not make a movie about queen elizabeth and give the role to a muslim? Or how about we make a movie about mike tyson with a german woman starring as tyson himself? Replace the titanic itself with a jet ski instead of the boat itself?

However this has been allowed is an absoulute joke! Totally deystroying the masterpiece of a story.

Dont waste your time or effort with the boring old cards and labels you PC Do-Gooders throw around either the whole racism, sexism whatever else you want to throw in the mix its boring and ineffective.

I can only hope people avoid the film as to avoid any further slaughter of this work and stick to the original books.

[–] wolfdamage 8 years ago

YAWN.....

[–] wolfdamage 8 years ago

So boring.....you're late to the party.
I guarantee you Elba slays it.
See you in Hell....

[–] Odin_Cat_of_Norway 8 years ago

It's hilarious you used that example, because one of the forms of the new Gojira film has been dubbed "Turkey Godzilla' and kinda looks chicken-like.

http://img08.deviantart.net/645e/i/2016/219/3/0/shin_gojira_form_b_by_skullghidorah2016-dad01vd.jpg

And is awesome. Just like Idris Elba.

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed.

[–] wmboos 8 years ago

Yea, this pretty much blew my mind. People are going to call you, and all those who agree with you, every filthy name they can think of for pointing this out too. A Black Roland changes the whole dynamic of the story. HOWEVER, the only people who will complain about it are people that have actually taken the time to sit down and read the series more than once. This is what Hollywood is counting on. Most of the people who will watch this "New and Exciting Adaptation of a Steven King Novel" will not have read it so it won't matter. I'm rather curious though as to how they're going to resolve the Roland/Detta conflict in the mini series. Seems to me like long term planning took a back seat to short term political correctness as it so often does in this day and age.

[–] guyamos 8 years ago

I beg to differ, I've read the story more than once and no, it doesn't change the whole dynamic of the story. It changes a few chapters in one book. It slightly changes the relationship between Roland and Detta and that's about it.

Detta represents hatred, fear and anger. She doesn't represent black people. "People who have taken the time to sit down and read the story more than once" would understand that. Sai King even goes as far to acknowledge one of the reasons she hates him.
"She cackled and stared at him with meanly merry eyes, but the gunslinger saw fear hidden far back in those eyes. She was afraid of him. Afraid because he was The Really Bad Man. Why was he The Really Bad Man? Maybe because, on some deeper level, she sensed what he knew about her."

There's no mention of skin colour as the reason for her hatred, but something else entirely.

I'll admit it does change some aspects of the story but they're only, please excuse the pun, skin deep.

To paraphrase you, it seems to me that some people are so uncomfortable with other people's skin colour that they focus on the short term effects rather than the long term planning as it so often does in this day and age.

It's the same argument that happens again and again on this board. If you can't handle the fact that Roland is being portrayed by a talented actor who happens to be black, then it's safe to say you were never that big of a fan of the character of Roland in the first place and only align yourselves with him because he is white in the books.

If he were black in the books, would you have enjoyed it as much?
If Detta called Roland a Honky Luvvin MaFah instead, would it have ruined their relationship?
Would Susannah ever appear?
Does she ever hate Roland again for the colour of his skin? Is it ever an issue again?
For such little part in the book, there's too much time (my own included) either defending or hating the casting in this film.

Roland is, was and always will be a character from a book, not a historical figure or a character where race is a reason for the story told. His skin colour doesn't matter and it really is a shame to see so many people hung up on it. For a film about a world that has moved on, it's funny how many people can't.

Long days and pleasant nights fellow gunslingers.

[–] wmboos 8 years ago

Ok. That's your opinion. Now, since Roland is a Black man, in the series that follows, let's make Detta some White Trailer Park Redneck Trash from the same time period with all the same racial prejudices reacting the same way to a now Black Roland. Would YOU watch THAT? What about her and Eddie?

The thing is, regardless of today's morality, regardless of how much you want something else to be true, her skin color was very important to her overall story thereby making his, by extension, important too. Make no mistake about that. I would go so far to say it was her story. She learned to trust White people. She even fell in love and married a White man and took in a White boy as her own. The joy she felt when she saw Jake and Eddie again at the end was the very epitome of her transformation. I would never dream of casting her as anything other than a Black woman and I would raise just as much hell if she was cast as anything other than Black. At least she's not in the movie

However, I will watch the movie simply because her and Eddie aren't in it yet and from there I'll decide if it's worth watching the series.

[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

HOWEVER, the only people who will complain about it are people that have actually taken the time to sit down and read the series more than once.

This is your opinion.

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

[–] wmboos 8 years ago

HOWEVER, the only people who will complain about it are people that have actually taken the time to sit down and read the series more than once.

This is your opinion.

Well, DUH.

[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

You stated it as if it were some sort of fact.

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .

[–] akademic78 8 years ago

Oh lookey here, captain "imho" here. Whoever gives two *beep* what you think? Does it hurt your insecure little self or something? Or is it that every sentence now has to be followed by "Uuuuuuh it's just my opinion maaaan"? Idiot.

[–] tylerrepotter 8 years ago

Exactly. People on here confuse different posters. I would argue the same thing, simply because they are using the name Dark Tower and it was written a certain way. Remember Under the Dome? Chef got changed for tv to a black radio dj and no meth. Lmao. When they change the story, they haven't been known for making it better...

[–] joannatn 8 years ago

Sometimes no. But have you both read and seen Shawshank Redemption? Changes were made to that story for the movie that made it, at least in my opinion, so much better. It might not be the standard, but we have proof that it can happen.

[–] guyamos 8 years ago

You've taken the time to reply to me so first of all, thank you for replying as someone who has a valid arguement rather than a head up a**e approach, although we see things differently it certainly is refreshing!

If I came across as too patronising before I apologise but stand by my point and I hope we can converse respectfully rather than hurl insults as some tend to do.

If they were to change Detta in to white trailer trash, yeah I think I would till watch it, as they're initial dynamic would remain the same. If the character were treated with respect, actually I think it could still work. Although they would need to rewrite her background, which would be a shame because the Detta/O'Detta story was magnificent, it could be done and still have the same effect. It would suck but it's a new level of the dark tower. Things change and the world moves on. Chances are because Roland's race isn't a factor to his story, whilst Susannah/Detta/O'Detta's partially is, they might keep her race unchanged. As I said, it's easily fixable. If not, it's a shame but I'm optimistic at this new franchise.

I do see where you're coming from with Susannah's background and when she saw Eddie and Jake (and Oy) it was a great ending to her story, but I disagree that her entire story is about race. I always saw it as finding her true self, her purpose in life. She was one of the most gutsy characters and her character was defined by her attitudes towards situations and other people. Her love for her Ka-tet also defined her, after the end of Detta/O'Detta she went from fear and hate to bravery and love. The fact that Eddie and Jake were white meant nothing, when you love someone you don't love their skin colour, you love their character.

I do respect your points but i disagree, I think Elba will smash this one out the park and nail the role. Yes, racial tensions are at a high recently, especially over in the USA, but I believe we can still move forward and look past people's skin colour and see who they are as people.

End of the day, it's just a film and a new take on the story. It could be amazing or it could not. As I said I'm optimistic and willing to give it a go whilst the fan in me is jumping on the spot with anticipation. I'm glad you'll still see the film and I hope you enjoy it.

Long days and pleasant nights

[–] wmboos 8 years ago

I was just thinking about something; A major part of the overall story is the travel between worlds or alternate universes as we would call it. Granted, nothing that people are saying about it (myself included) is going to matter if the movie sucks. I don't see Eddie or Detta in the credits so our thoughts on their interactions don't matter. The Gunslinger himself can be a purple monkey eater and it won't matter. It's only going to matter in the series itself. The alternate worlds combined with time travel available to the producers should allow them to find an acceptable alternative to Detta and her very serious race problems. It's who she is. Period. Actually, explaining his skin color under the parameters of the story itself would be quite simple. This is the only problem I have. Keeping the character dynamic intact.

[–] guyamos 8 years ago

That's an interesting point to raise, what we say here does not matter I agree. And as passionate as we can get, I highly doubt Arcel and co are even aware of these threads let alone reading them. It's just fan speculation.

But it's nice to be passionate about something :-)

We may disagree on who Detta is and what she represents but we can agree that it can be changed if need be. It's a new medium for a story about different realities and alternate worlds so we should be open to change as long as the characters are the same and their dynamic remains intact. When/if she is introduced, of course.

I would also like to say I'm not dismissing race as an important issue, either in general or for Detta's character. But I do believe it is open to interpretation, as all works of art are.

And let's not forget Eddie hated Roland too when his door on the beach closed for good and he started going through withdrawal, so I believe there's more reason that Detta hated Roland, or The Really Bad Man, than Just the colour of his skin.

Thanks again for a coherent and mature opposition to a conversation, it's a breath of fresh air and the fact that we can agree that character dynamic is all that matters in the end is nice to know. Here's hoping the film is good and we both get to enjoy ourselves.

Long days and pleasant nights gunslinger

[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

I beg to differ, I've read the story more than once and no, it doesn't change the whole dynamic of the story. It changes a few chapters in one book. It slightly changes the relationship between Roland and Detta and that's about it.

Detta represents hatred, fear and anger. She doesn't represent black people. "People who have taken the time to sit down and read the story more than once" would understand that. Sai King even goes as far to acknowledge one of the reasons she hates him.
"She cackled and stared at him with meanly merry eyes, but the gunslinger saw fear hidden far back in those eyes. She was afraid of him. Afraid because he was The Really Bad Man. Why was he The Really Bad Man? Maybe because, on some deeper level, she sensed what he knew about her."

There's no mention of skin colour as the reason for her hatred, but something else entirely.

I'll admit it does change some aspects of the story but they're only, please excuse the pun, skin deep.

To paraphrase you, it seems to me that some people are so uncomfortable with other people's skin colour that they focus on the short term effects rather than the long term planning as it so often does in this day and age.

It's the same argument that happens again and again on this board. If you can't handle the fact that Roland is being portrayed by a talented actor who happens to be black, then it's safe to say you were never that big of a fan of the character of Roland in the first place and only align yourselves with him because he is white in the books.

If he were black in the books, would you have enjoyed it as much?
If Detta called Roland a Honky Luvvin MaFah instead, would it have ruined their relationship?
Would Susannah ever appear?
Does she ever hate Roland again for the colour of his skin? Is it ever an issue again?
For such little part in the book, there's too much time (my own included) either defending or hating the casting in this film.

Roland is, was and always will be a character from a book, not a historical figure or a character where race is a reason for the story told. His skin colour doesn't matter and it really is a shame to see so many people hung up on it. For a film about a world that has moved on, it's funny how many people can't.

Long days and pleasant nights fellow gunslingers.

Quoted in its entirety for truth. As someone who has read the series multiple times (currently finishing up yet another journey, in fact), I agree with all of this.

[–] joannatn 8 years ago

I'll second your sentiments, sugar. I've already made Guy aware that it was a very articulate example of my feelings entirely.

[–] sugrnspyce4 8 years ago

👍 Encouraging civil posters and nuanced discussion is always a plus. :)

[–] Saul_Coulson 8 years ago

If roland was black in the books id be just as angry if he was changed to a white man? I couldnt care less what colour or race thats not my point ive no interest in the politics, race crap, gender stuff, all the resttttt the fact for me is theyve taken a key fundamental and changed it..thats all I care about.

[–] brett_md 8 years ago

I've read it three times through, and then some. I think a black Roland changes nothing. Nothing.

"Mother Father, Chinese Dentist!"

[–] jtyn 8 years ago

Lololo I always imagined Norman Reedus as the Gunslinger. Its a western thing.

[–] Nameless_Dread 8 years ago

ZOG is literally rewriting history. Google "european people art" or "american inventors" to see some 1984 INGSOC type *beep* at work.

---
Gentlemen! Have you no sense of decency?

[–] simian_ninja 8 years ago

Heres an idea why not make a movie about queen elizabeth and give the role to a muslim? Or how about we make a movie about mike tyson with a german woman starring as tyson himself? Replace the titanic itself with a jet ski instead of the boat itself?

How is that you idiots never ever f'n manage to understand the argument.

The Gunslinger is a fictional character.

Queen Elizabeth, Mike Tyson and the Titanic are all real things. If you really want to make this argument, then can you do it properly?

I once had an argument with a friend who didn't want a Black Bond and asked me how I would feel about a black Captain Kirk (because I'm a nerd) and I responded with the same thing, as long as the character traits remain the same - then I don't care. I'd rather a black Captain Kirk that is in tune with the original character that studied, worked and rose the ranks rather than some blond hair blue eyed kid who listens to Beasty Boys and sleeps with anything that moves and gets his rank by luck. She shut up pretty quick.

By the way, I'd be pretty interested in seeing a Godzilla movie with a Giant Chicken. That just sounds...so B+...

--------------------------------------
Death is the standard breach for a complex prize.

[–] miss_van 8 years ago

How is that you idiots never ever f'n manage to understand the argument.

The Gunslinger is a fictional character.

Queen Elizabeth, Mike Tyson and the Titanic are all real things. If you really want to make this argument, then can you do it properly?

Thank you I was going to post the same thing, and if Stephen King does not have a problem with the casting why should we, nowhere in the books does it say Roland is white, it says he has blue eyes and just cause Detta says he is white does not mean much, because she is so blind to things and people around her.

[–] wmboos 8 years ago

if Stephen King does not have a problem with the casting why should we,

You know, I'm willing to give the movie a chance because Jake is the only other character from the series in it so Roland's skin tone doesn't matter. However, if Mr. King did have a problem with the casting, you and I both know that he would never admit to it. In today's society, that would make him a racist. Denying that makes it worse.

nowhere in the books does it say Roland is white, it says he has blue eyes and just cause Detta says he is white does not mean much, because she is so blind to things and people around her.

Now, PLEASE, understand that the following IS NOT coming from a little pimply faced kid hiding in his mother's basement but from a fully grown 54 year old man who's lived a full life; I suggest that you go back and read the series again because the above statement you made is perhaps one of the most ignorant things I've read here. You obviously don't know what you're talking about so I would advise you to do so before making such statements in the future.

[–] Captain_Wesker 8 years ago

You DO realize that a "Muslim" is a person that follows the religion of Islam and not an ethnicity, correct ?

---
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing .