Not everyone in the south hated black people back then. The reality of the time was that black women were often grateful to work as maids and most of their employers treated them well.
My mom used to tell me stories about growing up as a child. Some were about the maid they had. Her name was Pearl. This was in Ft Lauderdale (when that area of Florida was still fairly southern). While that area wasn't the deep south back then, the color lines were somewhat drawn (even in the Florida beach town where I grew up, there was a colored beach up until the late 60s/early 70s), and black maids often worked in white houses.
I will say that one of the stories my mom told about Pearl were the few times she had to stay late at work for some reason, and my grandma had to drive her home because the bus didn't run late. On occasion, my mom would ride along and she said that the area of town where the blacks lived, she was appalled at the conditions (shacks, shanties....just poor overall). My mom grew up with money so she probably didn't see poverty much. They treated her pretty well, from what my mom said.
I am sure that there were some poorly treated black maids, but for those from outside the south, not all southerners treated/treat black people poorly.
And the movie showed that, too. In addition to Jessica Chastain's character, some of the maids told stories to Skeeter about the good people they worked for. If you'll pardon the expression, the situation wasn't completely black and white.
Yes we did see these good people. They even told their maid(Octavia Spencer's character) to leave the dropped groceries in the yard and come sit down at the table for a meal they cooked for her. The family was very appreciative of her caring of the wife during all her issues and treated her well from the first day she was hired. She was comfortable with them and didn't fear of being fired for on a whim. Was she happy to be a maid? She was probably happy to have that job as she needed it but it doesn't mean that was the end of her aspiration to scrub toilets. It was a product of the times and had she been born later she could have owned the house and been a VP. She played with the cards she was dealt.
If a man has not discovered something he will die for, he isn't fit to live. Martin Luther King Jr.
"...black women were often grateful to work as maids..." Yes, I'm sure they had no other ambitions and that the whole race equality thing was a bit exaggerated.
I apologise if you feel misquoted. However, I don't feel that the quote in its entirety makes any difference as I was reacting to the use of the word "grateful". I just found it an extremely odd word to use. It's like saying women are grateful for only being beaten two times a day instead of three when the situation as a whole is inherintely wrong. I've no doubt that not everyone at the time were full-on racists but they were all part of a system that maintained segregation and inequality.
Well, Don't see how being a maid is comparable to being beaten. They were maids not slaves. It's a job that people voluntarily take, get paid for, and even people--yes even white people-- take today.
Wanting something better in the future does not negate gratitude for the present.
That chip on your shoulder, it's really weighing you down. I'm sure my very poor ancestors of the time were VERY grateful for any job they could find. As it is with poor people of ANY color who are not satisfied with sitting at home drawing a check.
Oh lillurr, for goodness sake, you are making this so out of context that it is sad that here were are enjoying a post about a wonderful movie and you make it a political and very argumentative too. Stop it!
You can kid yourself by thinking only some black maids were poorly treated, or that your very own family was not racist but you have to face the facts... it was pretty handy having a black maid, right? I mean your grandparents were well off were they not? So if they were truly not racist I'm sure they could afford to have a white maid or a professionally trained butler, but did they?
It must feel all warm and fuzzy inside thinking bout the good stories your grandparents told you about the lovely maid and how they were always nice to her etc... You seriously have to pop that bubble you live in... it's not hard, I promise...
I mean you even said it yourself that your mother got to see the horrible state of the black maids neighbourhoods and houses, surely that should give you an indication as to why they had no choice but to act nice to white people so they could get enough money to feed their families. So please please stop justifying yourself, it only perpetuates racism. "We are not racist, we had a black maid and we treated her well, she was part of the family and she was happy I tells ya"
Racism is still rampant to this day so why don't you think logically and realise how BAD it must have been back then... Do you agree racism is still common in this day and age? I'm gona make a judgment call here and say you think racism isn't as prevalent as the liberals would have us think, correct? Or that we live in a politically correct mad world these days, am I right? Soon we wont even be allowed to talk in public coz you never know who might get offended, I'm getting close aren't I?
I just hope you are an old lady who can just live in her bubble without disturbing anyone but if you are young and feel this way, now that just makes me sad... People need to wake up, racism is inherent in all of us, it had its use in our specie's infancy... but has become a deeply rooted sickness, a disease which cannot be cured unless it is diagnosed. Let me help you with that.
Diagnosis: YOU ARE RACIST Medication: take two pills of wakedafvckup,Rx twice a day before lunch and dinner.
Do not exceed stated dose, in case of an overdose call a minority, explain your problem and help will be on its way shortly.
Side effects may include: rational thinking, a new found understanding of our society, compassion, happiness and no more justification in relation to ones own racism.
will you accept that statement and try and change it or will you continue to justify yourself to other people exactly like you who are merely justifying their own racism right back at you? Everyone has a choice, make yours. But please, don't lie to yourself, you will only be slowing down the progress our society is trying to make. To unify not justify..
Jesus Christ, you are one backward-minded person. Affirmative action is retribution in terms of the years and years of unequal and oppressed education blacks and other minorities had to suffer. I'm not arguing it should be used today, but it had its place in society.
Minorities DO NOT have everything or even anything handed to them. If you are black, you are 4-8 times more likely to be arrested for marijuana use even though they use at the same rate.
Racial profiling and stop and frisk policies that do not happen to white people. Driving while black. Vincent Chin. Every black teen that gets shot for existing. No white person gets asked "where they're really from" or if they're even "an American." Jobs. They've done studies on callbacks for interview, and being noticeably black DECREASES your chance of getting a job, even if you have the same credentials as a white person.
So because black people were discriminated against 50 years ago, me and other white people today have to pay for that? How does that make sense? Maybe they are 4-8 more times likely to be arrested for marijuana, BECAUSE THEY SMOKE MORE POT than other races. Again, blacks are more likely to commit a crime. Stereotypes usually exist for a reason, they is some correlation to why people think like that. All black people are good at basketball. Well, obviously not all, but they NBA is predominately black. Don't you think there is a reason why people think black people are good at basketball now? The same can be applied to black people committing crimes. www.drugwarfacts.org There are your facts. Asians are not affected by affirmative action because the majority of them can land a job on their own merits, unlike most blacks.
Since you support affirmative action, you should also support discrimination against blacks in employment. After all, one leads to the other, does it not? Since these black graduates are undeserving graduates, who are less deserving of employment.
To the poster or posters who say we still have a big racism problem (against blacks) in America:
Well no person, black or white, can complain that they are poor in America. That is over with. Anyone who applies gets free hand-outs from the government. Minimum $2K per month....and upwards of $5K per month if you kick-out a couple kids.
The downside is that America is becoming a lousy country. The economy is getting worse all the time. More than half the country is on hand-outs. Fact. America spends more on hand-outs than it takes-in in total revenues. Fact. And the economy is going to get severely worse before too long.
Complaining about racism is fine. But it seems like the only solution the whiners advocate is taxing the workers more and using it for hand-outs. Am I wrong?
Wow, would you like to tell me where to get that $2,000 per month? I am a white woman in her 30s who got laid off of my job because my company was sold and the new company let all of us go. I promise you I'm not even getting $1,000 a month. So nice try, but no dice.
Freedom of religion means ALL religions not just your own.
You can't get the $2K per month immediately. You have to apply....and sometimes your claims even get delayed at first. They make you jump through a few hoops. But eventually everyone who applies for handouts gets them.
Welfare, Section 8 practically free housing, food stamps, early Social Security, disability, unemployment, student loans which are now simply handouts, money for each kid - say he has ADD and you get 3X the handouts, take care of your neighbors kid and you get even more money, all the other scams like home-care etc. And that's just for starters. $2K per month is on the very low end. And these handouts are good for anyone, even men now. Cradle to grave.
Complaining about racism is fine. But it seems like the only solution the whiners advocate is taxing the workers more and using it for hand-outs. Am I wrong?
What on earth are you talking about? What does this have to do with the topic at hand?
America's so-called 'welfare state' is non-existent. If you live in the US and fall on hard times you're pretty much guaranteed to die. I feel really sorry for people who have the misfortune to live in the US; I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy :(
What I find funny is that my grandmother also had a black maid that worked for our "Southern SC family" all the way up until the early 90s. She helped raise my dad and uncle and even was around when I visited my grandmother in the 80s/90s. I was always told to call her Mrs. Jesse and she was a sweet lady who from what I could tell was treated quite nicely and was always nice to us. You say that she acted nice to our famiy so she could continue to get paid well, but then why did she come to my grandfather's funeral when he passed in 03, my wedding in 08 and my grandmother's funeral in 2013. She had stopped working for our family in 1995, so she didn't have any finacial obligation to come, but she held my grandmother's hand at my grandfather's funeral, helped my dad during my grandmothers's and I watch that woman cry at my wedding.
She didn't have to come to either of the funerals b/c she was no longer working for our family and she didn't have to accept my wedding invite, yet she did. She passed away back last year and I went to her funeral as well and was welcomed by her family like I was a friend. Not all black maids are out for money some become family even southern maids.
As for Racism yes it was strong during that time, but not everyone was out for money, not everyone who was white was/is racist. I grew up in Naples, Italy in the early 80s and didn't see any racism like I did when I came home to the US and I remember being told I would cry b/c I didn't understand why people acted the way they did toward other people. So I never have been hateful toward anyone of race, I rate people on their character no matter what their skin color is and that is what my parents and my life experience has taught me.
People are stupid with random moments of brillance!
I have a different perspective probably because of my age (46), the time period I grew up (70's and 80's) and my locale (suurban NYC:CT)
I grew up all my life until I was 18 with a maid/nanny who was black.. I was blessed to have this experience of what amounted to two mothers. She lived with us 5 days a week and then went home on weekends to her family in NJ... My father travelled quite a bit and my mother would join him.. This is how it all evolved over time to having her live with us during the week. She was the most wonderful loving, strict when needed to be, shoulder to cry on when needed, woman. My mother was not absentee either.. So I was so lucky to have them both in my life.. My mother actually would wait on her lol... We brought HER dinner to her room! My mother cleaned up after her and we had another housekeeper who came to help once a week to pick up after all of us.. She was a part of our family and let me tell you, when I was 10, I got angry at her for something stupid and I used the N word... Well, that was the first AND last time I ever said that... Not only did I got knocked on my butt by her, but also from my mother who had never hit me before and since!
So in summary, the time period and geographic locale of where I grew up may be the two main factors that shaped my views on race.. I am wondering if anyone had the same experience I did, from both the north or the south
I agree with your remark. " the reality of the times" it says it all. and I am sure that some of these people were treated as more than maids etc, but a family extensions Pensions were often given to old retired staff I understand.
When I was little, my grandmother had two servants who were husband and wife. I only knew them by their first names, Jacob and Samantha. When I was an adult, years and years later, I was floored when my mother told me that they were both college graduates!!! I'm sure my mother told me their last name but I can't remember. I would love to find out the rest of that story. I've always felt sorry for what must have been their blighted career ambitions.
You are referring to a time when women in general did not work outside the home so getting work even as a maid was a blessing to some people. If those black women did not want to work as maids in White People's homes then they could have worked at black-owned businesses located in the black area of town. They chose to work as maids in the White homes however because the pay was better.
"...black women were often grateful to work as maids..." Yes, I'm sure they had no other ambitions and that the whole race equality thing was a bit exaggerated.
I didn't have the impression from the story that the author was trying to convey that all black women hated their jobs and were treated badly. I agree with Mega-Ennui that the film showed that some of these women had good relationships with their employers. What I perceived of the most severe criticism of the society of the time and the treatment of "The Help" was that it was the social norm (behavior accepted and expected generally in the society, and by society, I mean here the upper crust in Jackson) to treat black persons as inferiors by various means - the outside toilets being the most prominent example. That is why Hilly was SO adamant about publishing that diatribe about the health risks of allowing blacks anywhere near your facilities (or letting them use dishes and silverware). One means of upholding that hierarchy of blacks as inferior was to perpetuate an obviously fictional set of beliefs about blacks getting different diseases and the danger of letting them use the bathrooms. Another aspect was that it was the white women in the upper crust who were bullied into toeing the line in this respect. This was shown quite clearly at least twice - Skeeter's mother was pressured by her social superiors to fire the woman who had worked for her family for 30 years and raised her children. It was clear she did not want to, but she felt no choice but to comply with the white woman's insistance that she do something about their behavior. Also Hilly forced Abailine's employer into firing her. In both cases, the white women were terrified of refusing to comply with the social norm that white superiority (and the rules that must be enforced against blacks to perpetuate that notion of superiority) must be upheld at all costs. If they had refused to go along with the person setting the standard, then they would have faced ostracism (note how Skeeter was immediately and in no uncertain terms dumped by her boyfriend when he found out she wrote the book). So even the white women were kept in line and forced to act in ways they did not wish to.
But I think that you can watch the film and observe that 'choosing' to be a domestic is a limited realistic choice when there were not other viable options in that community.
Whether somebody 'dreams' of particular a job is different than trying to find a bright spot in it.
by Xica55 » Fri Jun 14 2013 10:44:34 IMDb member since August 2005
...And please let me also add, I'm very proud of the men and women who came before me, those with the courage to march and speak out (both white and black), even though their lives were threatened, and in some cases taken. It's because of their sacrifice that right now, I have the freedom to speak my mind, and offer an opinion on what I recall from the past.
Hear, hear!!!
What bugs me today is the painfully incorrect notion that racism is somehow magically over. Blacks are seemingly told: So what? & Get over it!
When all anyone has to do is critically read (instead of being spoon-fed the news from any single source) to be made aware that Jim Crowism still exists today and will continue to exist (in varying forms) into the future.
"If people like you don't learn from what happened to people like me..." -Professor Rohl
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If I were you, I woundnt even talk about that. It's a shame to say that your family used to have black maids(slaves). It's like a Nazi who says: My parents turned in some jews in WW2 but I'm sure their death wasn't painful.
I know it may sound a bit hyperbolic because death differs from pain (altho' some Masters used to hit to death their slaves, right?) but it's the same philosophy, concidering the *beep* situation those people were facing.
So Agree, Maids had a "Choice" whether or not they Worked for a certain family. None were forced to. This movie clearly shows that these maids were free to "Choose". They had good jobs. Today most people are still harassed and belittled by their bosses. Is that not the same thing? My Family had one and they were treated better than anywhere I have ever worked and were respected and given things from our large family for their own family. If it was still legal, I wish I could find a job as a Maid and be so lucky. Why they complain is beyond me.
So Agree, Maids had a "Choice" whether or not they Worked for a certain family. None were forced to. This movie clearly shows that these maids were free to "Choose". They had good jobs. Today most people are still harassed and belittled by their bosses. Is that not the same thing? My Family had one and they were treated better than anywhere I have ever worked and were respected and given things from our large family for their own family. If it was still legal, I wish I could find a job as a Maid and be so lucky. Why they complain is beyond me.
Have you been paying attention to the theme of the film ? No they didn't have choice. Their job was lousy and poorly paid. They were treated like second class citizens.
Oh, and your family was kind enough to give hand-me-downs to their family... How noble ! reply share
The "Theme" of the movie was obvious. Just to stir the Pot between Blacks and Whites which is something movies and the media keep stirred up. I also know that it wasn't slavery. Check history!!! As far as my family, the Blacks were treated like family and share cropped on our farm and sat at our table and are meals prepared by not only them but by all females collectively in a very large family. You are apparently just another "poor me" black who thinks because their auntie worked for a white family the world owes them something.
Oh, and your family was kind enough to give hand-me-downs to their family... How noble !
IKR? Shame on anyone giving them anything. NOW, That's the Governments job. Or, I guess it's better that they just feel entitled to steal whatever they want like the maid with the ring. LMAO!!!
What I meant was, you feel so proud that your family gave them things they wouldn't have any use for anyway. It's not the giving, it's what they gave. But we'll leave it at that because you and I are worlds apart.
LIKE YOU KNOW??? They were given NEW homemade quilts, Fresh garden vegetables and homemade canned goods and ALL meats from the Farm. You just ASSUMED You knew something. I don't remember them getting anything USED. Not that they would have rejected it considering the poverty everyone was living in. But, YOU KNOW ALL. Yes, we are worlds apart, now it is all FREE for them. Obama Phones, Welfare and Food Banks and Corrupt Churches they can rob. Not to mention all the other government benefits that are given to Blacks with prejudice to whites. Think before You Post next time. Assuming You can.
With all due respect, I can't say that a non-American could have the slightest idea what this subject is about. No offense, but your post is kind of ridiculous. This woman was not a slave. She was paid to do a job, and my mother loved her. She spoke of her like you might speak of a beloved aunt or grandma.
So please, don't compare this to Nazi Germany or whatever.
With all due respect, I can't say that a non-American could have the slightest idea what this subject is about
You're right, they should put a label of some sort for us non-American idiots, something like : "Americans-only topic" An might I refer you to what "oundjianm" replied to your opening post ? It's clear from what you go on writing that you didn't read it at all.
If I were you, I woundnt even talk about that. It's a shame to say that your family used to have black maids(slaves).
It is a shameful thing to the ancestors, but not shameful to the person saying it. We are not responsible for the sins of our ancestors. We are not our ancestors.
As a European-descended person from the US, I have NEVER oppressed an African-descended person or ANY person of any ancestry, and I am willing to fight to the death against anyone who tries to oppress, marginalize or in any way inconvenience someone based on their ancestry or the amount of melanin in their skin, or their nationality, religion, sexual orientation, gender identity, physical ability, or any other arbitrary trait. So why should I be ashamed of myself if some great-great-great-grandparent of mine was a major prick who employed African-descended maids for a pittance? That wasn't me, that was him. I am not that guy.
I feel sorry and embarrassed for any of my ancestors who held slaves or treated their maids differently than they treated the rest of society. But again, that wasn't me. I have not wronged anyone and will continue to strive for social justice until the end of my life. I have nothing to be ashamed of.
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Yes, I am aware that I unfortunately benefit from white privilege which takes at the expense of other groups. Do I exploit that? Never. In fact, I have several factors that leave me with less privilege than an average heterosexual Black woman who has never been convicted of a crime. She has a FAR better chance of being hired for a decent-paying job or getting a bank loan than I do. So yes, I checked my privilege, and it is lacking. But yes, if a Black woman in the US were in the same situation that I'm in, she'd have it worse. And I find that entirely unacceptable. But I repeat, I do nothing to further that, and I actively fight to correct that as much as I can.
You tell me to be ashamed of my religion, but I am atheist and as such am one of the least-privileged "religion groups" in all the US. (Studies have shown that atheists are perceived to be nearly as untrustworthy as rapists.) You tell me to be ashamed of "my culture" but I am a part of a subculture that has nothing in common with WASPy yuppies and always has eyebrows raised at it, so that culture has nothing to do with me. I cannot be ashamed of my country, because it was founded on some of the best utopian principles, even though the execution of those principles was hypocritical as fsck. ("All men are created equal. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.") But we're starting to make up for it, and that makes me finally proud.
I am ashamed of Europeans' behavior over the last half-millenium, but because my ancestry is of two oppressed white groups, 3/4 Irish and 1/4 Ashkenazic Jewish, I cannot count myself among the oppressors. I cannot be ashamed of my ancestry, because we were some of the abused.
And of COURSE I'm ashamed of racism. You clearly didn't read my post.
You call me ignorant and entitled. Back that up with something you actually know about me. I am neither.
Thanks for your post. I grew up in middle Georgia in the 1950's and '60's. The situation was far more complex than presented in the book and in the film. Remember, the author did not live through this time, she wasn't born until 1969.
The film presented both blacks and whites in a two dimensional stereotypical way. In so doing, it is no more accurate in its depiction of the relationship between whites and the blacks who worked for them as was the relationship between Scarlett O'Hara and Mammy.
"To Kill a Mockingbird" is a far better film. Also, the wonderful and underrated TV series "I'll Flay Away" (filmed right up the road from where I live) gives a much more nuanced and accurate portrayal of the relationship between white families and the maids who worked for them.
My family hired Mrs. Johnson as a maid in 1951, when I was six months old. She worked for my family for nearly 40 years. She was my other mother. She and her husband were childless, which spared me later from feeling she spent the day with me instead of her children. I visited her home almost every week before I started school and played with the neighborhood kids. I was taught by my parents to treat everyone with respect.
Maybe my family and our friends were more genteel. We would have been horrified by how the maids were treated in the film. I had never heard of separate bathrooms until I saw this movie. Mrs. Johnson used our dinnerware. She was welcome at our table.