I don't understand why people don't like this movie. I am not a huge fan of ballet but I found the movie mesmerizing and beautiful. Arronofsky did a wonderful job with this. One of my favorite movies ever (hence the username). But what do people not like about this movie?
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@imnotazombie - hahaha! your sig made me laugh.
Just seen this movie and it was great stuff, hence me posting like a demented fence maker. The forums seem to be balanced on this actually, so maybe I missed the usual sad "backlash". most great works get a backlash. However, as imnotazombie's sig suggests, also utter crud gets a backlash too. Everyone do the backlash! Yeah! Teh backlash! Dowop dowop dowop BACKLASH! boomboomboom Backlash.
etc.
His.;her sign link made me laugh,too. Like the usernames here.See my earlier post on this...in response to blackswanfan.
shareThey don't get it. I know every art is subjective, but 80% of the people that complain about this movie, do it because they didn't understand it, even if they say they did. I've seen only a few criticisms about this movie that were "smart". Talking to friends that loved it, and friends that hated it, I realized that the ones that "loved" this movie, could empathize with Nina in some level, even identify with her, while the ones that hated it, were bored or didn't care about Nina or weren't bored, cared, but didn't understand it. The first one, being "bored", is the stupidest in my opinion. If you didn't know what you were going to watch, and you were bored, that's fine. Even though I will never understand people that didn't care about the movie or were bored for that reason and yet took some time to discuss it on a message board. But continuing, if you KNEW what Black Swan was all about, you should have seen it coming and sticked to movies with more action and less symbolism. The second one, the people that didn't care for the character, are the people that I think didn't empathize nor identify with Nina, and while I can't blame them for that, I think it's a very weird reason to dislike a movie. You should be able to enjoy the art of it. And the third one, the people that didn't understand the movie and yet thought they had basis to criticize it, I can't say much about them... it's something that occurs a lot on message boards about movies, and I can only say that I feel sorry for them. They don't know what they're missing out for not trying to understand the meaning behind this work of art. But oh well...maybe they didn't care enough, then I can't argument with that. haha...
Of course there are people that didn't like it for a good reason, and I fully respect them. My post was more towards the "other ones".
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I think I fall into the camp that didn't get it, although I did empathize with Nina. Actually, having known a few dancers myself (through my sister and a friend I went to high school with), I recognized her drive and perfectionism and hated the way that everyone around her seemed to be exerting an intense pressure from all sides.
What I had trouble with, and what I had trouble with in Aronofsky's "The Wrestler" was what the point was. Was this movie about a driven woman with schizophrenia? Was it about the manipulation of a woman and how she chooses to not take it anymore? I understand it could be both of those things, but what I didn't get was what it was that I should take away from this. It certainly wasn't a look at mental illness in society or parenthood or the pressures to conform. It seemed to me like it was just a purely voyeuristic look at a woman's mind. Like someone had given me the ability to invisibly follow a dancer around for a few days and look inside her mind and that it happened to be at a time when she's coming unraveled.
What I don't get, is why I should be interested in that. I'm not criticizing anyone for BEING interested, but for most films like this, like "Vertigo," which I recently rewatched, there's a plot that engages even marginally, and then we're sucked in by how upsetting it is that our main character is coming apart. I just felt like "Black Swan" never tried to engage with the audience. It presented itself artfully and with solid technical presentation, but it just left me cold.
Is there more to it than this? Or am I just not the target audience for Aronofsky's brand of film-making?
It's really one of the great movies. I am mystified by all these who do not like this movie, and genuinely feel sorry for them.
shareSheesh, these replies remind me of my college roommate, yelling "How can you not like sauerkraut??!" Get over it, folks, it's just not reasonable to demand that everyone share your tastes.
If the original question was sincere, and not a rallying cry for the troops: I didn't like the movie because I couldn't stand Nina. I found her uptight, neurotic, and self-absorbed. The sort of person I avoid in real life; I certainly didn't enjoy spending 2 hours in her head.
I know a lot of people, and most critics, loved this movie. That's fine with me.
My question was sincere. I wanted to know why people didn't like it. You are entitled to your opinion and that is find with me. Thanks for your input! :)
sharePersonally I was dissapointed because the media in my country kind of hyped the sex scéne, and the marketing made it seem as if Natalie Portman was doing a bunch of nude scénes, when that turned out below expectations I felt cheated by the marketing team and hated everything about the movie.
Later I watched it with a clear head and then I really liked the movie.
But I think a lot of people went to see this movie because Marketing promised them something they weren't going to get, call me infantile for this, but I'm still a testosteron filled male. And so are the rest of us, I've actually spoken to quite a few males on different fora that first asked about the hyped sex scéne and then decided not to watch this movie when they heared nothing was to be seen.
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Still, even newspapers in my country made her nude scene big items, talking about how she was nervous blablabla. Even when the film was still in production and soon before release most mainstream media outlets in my country focussed on her nude scene, a scene that never even happened. So when you are promissed something, and when it is marketed that this something is a wonderfull reason to watch the new portman movie, and that promise isn't delivered, then some sort of dissapointment is to be expected, like I said, I liked the movie the second time I saw it, but the first time I was dissapointed.
Also, I know plenty people who watch movies only because a certain actress is in it and will be nude, a friend of mine for instance rented Vanilla Sky especially because of Penelope Cruz and the fact that she'd be naked, he hated the movie, kept falling a sleep, but was still prepared to dish out cash just to see penelope cruz naked.
Maybe Belgium is a nation of perverts, but Media here tends to focus on nude scénes, I remember when an actrice of a certain crappy local tv police series was suposed to have a nude scene, it was all papers talked about a week before the episode, and they never had as many viewers as when that episode aired.
Men like boobs, simple as that it's what made VHS succeed in the past, and it's what made the internet a thriving succes
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Nah, you still have it wrong, I did my growing up as a teen in the early 90's, a time period where allmost every star either posed for playboy, or starred in a movie that had "obligatory breast shots" Maybe the new generation has become prudish, or something but there was a time when Hollywood pretty much guaranteed that you'd get to see whoever was the hottest actress at the time nude, also, there's a reason why the CNDB website exists, or why one of the most visited sites in the early days of the internet was "oops celebreties" owned by some guy who made it his life work to freeze frame every celebrety's nude scénes and put the pictures of them on his site. Men love female stars, especially when they put out. 70% of Cracked's humour/science (lol) revolves around the premise that men, at their most base, only care for 1 thing
You can lash out at me all you want for voicing the gut feeling of milions of anonymous males, but you still have it wrong about the whole sad, pathetic and disturbed part. It's more disturbing that you are doing your verry best to profile yourself as completely oposed to these sentiments. Cracked has an article on guys like you and why they are actually even worse than the regular joe's who are honest, basicly your type tries to Lie it's way into a woman's pants by pretending you don't want to be in a woman's pants, wich is kind of creepy, either that or you are trying to be the "nice guy" wich is even more creepy
You also completely missed the point, it's not about wanting to see generic nudity, It was about seeing Natalie Portmans nudity specificly, because she is one of the most beautifull woman in Hollywood, and it was about the MARKETING campaign in Belgium foccussing on hinting towards nudity. If that angle was worthy of exploitation for the Marketing team, then that actually sais something about society in general. And most importantly my post was about the MARKETING making me a PROMISE and then the movie not living up to the promise, You know what that is called under the law? FALSE ADVERTISING.
I made a wonderfull opening that could lead to a discussion about:
- Marketing techniques of today (wich is part of my bachelor for managementwetenschappen or management sciences)
- Marketing and the focus on sexsuality in popular media
- false advertising in movie marketing (trailers today often include scénes not in the movies but specificly shot for the trailer)
- Societies views on woman and Mysoginy and sexuality
Yet you decided to focus on attacking someone personally because you saw a chance to advertise yourself as an elightened young male with superiour morals and an apparent right to judge others.
So I think you are the one who is disturbing concidering your deep needs to boost your ego by belitteling others and profiling yourself as a distinguished male. Instead of discussing interesting marketing issues that could have participated in creating hatred for this film, wich is what this thread was about
Belgium is not a nation of perverts just because it has you in it. Try watching some of Marion Hansel's movies eg Between Heaven and Earth - Belgian women are quite capable of making intelligent movies, and some Belgians are capable of appreciating them.
shareThank god most of the men i meet aspire to something higher in life: it's not that they hate nude chicks, but that whole 'i am a dude and so i am a pervert' is so 1980s.
It's less 'new prudishness' and more gender-equality in my view: chicks dare to say they'd love a nude 'Thor', dudes ask for movies and comic-books that have actual story-lines instead of just 'huge tits'.
You are a total moron if you still fell for 'this movie definitely has tits in it' after the gazillion times marketing-teams have lied about exactly that thing.
You should check out new-cracked: they figured out a few years ago that like half their readers are female so the stupid halfbaked misogyny has long gone from that website.
Marketing and Management are 'pretstudies' (Bullsh*t sciences for stupid people). All you learn is how to lick the heels of your boss and have an undeserved huge ego.
Her mother made her messed up. That was kind of a huge part of the film. Maybe you could learn a bit of understanding for people you wouldn't normally like. I feel for all people but I choose to be friends with a very select few truly amazing people. For the duration of an amazing film I didn't mind getting an insight into the pressures this very sympathetic character has to endure. I felt truly sorry for her.
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How can you not like sauerkraut??!
It frustates me that I can't downvote other people's opinions that are the same as mine. Sigh... I guess I'll go back to reddit... BTW I enjoyed this movie tremendously.
shareThe only thing I could see is they didn't get it. Everyone I know loves it except for this one idiot that's like "why did she grow feathers?" and that stupid stuff. She was a schizoid, hello?
A person hates you because they either wanna be you, see you as a threat, or hate themself
Personally, I was extremely disappointed by Black Swan.
Was looking forward to seeing it for a long time, having high expectations being an Aronofsky fan.
Predictability doesn't necessarily make a movie bad, but in this case it did.
That's the main point why the movie wasn't my cup of tea.
I was hoping there would be a twist or that I was mislead, as the plot & pace of the movie would've perhaps been more appropriate for a short film.
Only positive comment I can make would be regarding the acting & directing. Unfortunately that didn't suffice to save the movie for me.
Hope this exemplifies & highlights why some people didn't like the movie, although they "understood" it.
Having read some posts on IMDB it seems that one could split the opinions into 4 groups if you like; - the ones that liked it, the ones that didn't, people that clearly did not get the movie & thus didn't like it; as well as people that liked it merely because they were proud they understood it - (IMO the last 2 of the 4 groups being equally retarded).
On another note the director of photography's work wasn't my taste either & Clint Mansell's score was surprisingly unimpressive and below average, which is a first as the guy's one of the best at what he does.
Edit: Shame, as those are 2 aspects that have made Aronofsky movies that extra bit special in the past.
"I was hoping there would be a twist or that I was mislead, as the plot & pace of the movie would've perhaps been more appropriate for a short film."
Since the start you know what's going to happen, this movie is just showing you Nina's mind. It's not about plot twists, this is more about art and psychology. I enjoyed it because I was simply fascinated by how Aronofsky showed the human mind through scores (Clint Mansell got it right, IMO), mirrors, dances, symbolisms. The club scene is a good example...if you pay attention to the thousands of random images you will get a huge glimpse of Nina's mind and condition. That's whats so fascinating to me, as an aspiring psychologist. Maybe you just didn't enjoy it for that reason.
You're right in the sense that the movie wasn't about plot twists but while watching it I expected some, as without it lacked substance for me and I wouldn't have expected that from Aronofsky.
And although the viewer knows what's going on with Nina and her mind, I was hoping that the ending might be a jaw-dropper.
Regarding the score I thought the only positive aspect about it was the approach. As in that the score was based on a backwards adaptation of Swan Lake. The score is fine for "just" a movie, but Mansell sets a high standard and this score did not seem an integral part of the movie and could easily have been replaceable. Obviously that's just my opinion.
"The club scene is a good example...if you pay attention to the thousands of random images you will get a huge glimpse of Nina's mind and condition."
--> Yeah I needed to pause that part a couple times as it was quite impressive. And the amount of work put into the movie overall is so extensive that it's crazy and requires real talent to make it work BUT that didn't change or save what I found to be a disappointing plot.
It's like a guitar solo in a song; impressive but if it doesn't make a good song who gives a duck :).
Aronofsky was clever the way he used images to portray Nina's psychological state and I'm certain with more viewings one would spot more of that throughout the movie but to me this came across as a failed attempt at trying to create something special, clever and dare I say "pretentious".
It just didn't cut it for me.
Like you I'm very much into psychology, and from your comment it seems that we both value the same things in a movie and yet still have different opinions. Taste can be complex, I guess even if 2 people like the same ingredients they may still have different opinions on the final product :) .
My friend and I just watched Black Swan for the first time tonight and, surprisingly, we were both disappointed.
Between us I'm much more of a horror fan and going in I was expecting a horror movie... but as it went on I found myself getting into the first half of the movie... the less overt way that the duality of Nina's mind was being represented. So when the more visual bits of weirdness started to flow I felt they were heavy handed and unnecessary. I would have liked the entire second half of the movie to have been a lot more subtle and less overt.
As much as I like the image of Wynona Ryder stabbing herself in the face with a nail file, and I get the symbolism there relating to Nina's former idolatry of Beth's perfection... that scene just felt like it didn't belong to me. The same goes for big chunks of what happens as the end approaches.
Really, the movie was well made and well acted but the story felt so simple and simple-minded... and I really wanted something more (or maybe less) from it.
I'm not complaining because it wasn't a horror movie (though there was plenty of horror in it) but because it used elements of horror where I really didn't think it needed to... and in doing so it became somewhat ridiculous.
It's because Black Swan was such a mainstream success, and it really is NOT a mainstream film. It is much closer to being an art film. It was seen by a diverse range of people - some who simply cannot appreciate films like this, others who are completely mismatched to these types of films, and merely go to the cinema to see the latest "hits". Because Black Swan was such a success, it got a wider range of viewers.
shareThis movie sucked. I got it. I knew what it was about. I felt it was softcore porn with ballet and crazy thrown in. Do we really need 2 scenes of a girl fingering herself and a lesbian sex scene? The story didn't keep me interested, and me being gay, neither did the lesbian porn.
shareNo, you didn't get it.
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You're not even in the right league of movies to compare it to! It wasn't even intended to be anything like Taxi Driver. A better comparison would have been Repulsion, Mulholland Drive or even The Red Shoes or Rosemary's Baby.
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