MovieChat Forums > The Giver (2014) Discussion > Critics just hate everything YA so they ...

Critics just hate everything YA so they are predisposed to dislike.


Specially dystopia. Hunger games got good reviews because it was the first Young adult dystopia since Lord of the flies and battle royale but critics are lazy and since THG they have based their reviews of other movies in the YA genre in silly comparisons.

If they must compare then they should compare to brave new world or Fahrenheit 451 instead of throwing everything YA in the same bag. The plots of Divergent, THG and the giver couldn't be more different but for the critics they are all the same. But if they applied the same standard (Art shouldn't repeat itself) to romances, and especially comic book based movies, no marvel adaptation nor DC for that matter would get a fresh rating.


Why the double standard?

Peter Travis, the rolling stone critic, in his review of the giver was clear. He wants the YA dystopia trend to stop. So he probably will do anything in his power to stop that trend by discouraging people to watch a movie.

The current onslaught of movies excreted from dystopian teen fiction would make any YA yak. So far, The Hunger Games franchise is working. But catch Divergent, The Host, Ender's Game, and The Mortal Instruments: City of Bones and see if you don't hear yourself scream: Make. It. Stop.



I wouldn't trust a guy who says Mortal instruments is a dystopian movie.But a lot of other people do.


I've realized a lot of people have started to distrust the rotten tomatoes ratings. That's just good.

The giver has flaws in editing and script but overall the acting and the story was compelling and good. If critics have applied the same standards to review the giver to the ones they use to judge comic movies the movie would've been a certified fresh.

Don't believe them nor me. Go and see yourselves.

reply

It's nothing to do with YA making ratings biased.

But generally in YA the world building is horrible, and alot of justification is thrown out of the window because the author can't be bothered, didn't think it through or don't think the reader will think.

Hunger games had quite alot of world building, though it has some flaws as a movie it felt believable. High society living off the poor etc etc, civil war backstory and such.

Most YA however the author just makes up a idea/concept without thinking it through, then tries to make it work and patching it where it doesnt.

For example here: barrier design, town/society, cost of level and tech, manufacturing, society structure. Then the story which is all predictable outcomes, typical and generally uninspiring.

Take divergence for example, a great example of how creating a world/society is done really badly.

You have to understand that alot of critics go in with a neutral viewpoint and these things stand out, as a fan of fantasy i can overlook this, but i know I could show these kind of movies to plenty of people without telling them what it is (YA) and they will think its garbage after they watched it.

Why it is bad YA stories are too predictable meaning, its not stimulating or interesting:

1. typical romance, if a boy or girl likes someone that person will/does like them back.

2. Main character is generic without a strong personality (A protaganist with a sense of humor? dont be absurd!)

3. main character is a special because they just are without any drawbacks, because its YA.

4. Always black and white, not conflict of interests/difference of opinion. Its good versus evil. And when it isn't they try and make it look like it is.

reply

You make some really good points and I fully agree that young adult fiction is often "cheaply" written in that the writer doesn't really put too much effort into consistency. I kinda wished they would have gone a slightly different route with the explanation on how to revert the memories instead of the "magical" crossing some weird force field. In the book it worked a little bit better but still I disliked it. Would have loved it if they had changed the ending to something like breaking into the control tower for the memory suppressing, or transfer the memory into the drugs that repress the emotions or something. The writer couldn't really make it work plausibly.

4. Always black and white


Well the movie started black and white, but then colors where added slowly. So always is really imprecise language ts ts ts. Besides, my copy of the book was black and white too without any color pictures or anything! ;)

reply

Even with those 4 drawbacks you could even make a good movie, or at least a movie that's fun to watch. The problem with this recent wave of YA movies is that they miss almost every single factor that would make them interesting. There's no feeling of threat on the main characters, there's no tension, or it's so artificial and it feels so unnatural it doesn't really work.
I recently watched Odd Thomas on Netflix with some friends and we spent over an hour waiting for something to happen. Something that'd make me care about the main characters, some tension, anything... What we got was

- Here's a quirky, cute, special guy.
- Here's the deceptively strong female character, his girlfriend.
- Here's some CGI monsters and stuff.
- Here's some places and things.

But nothing was happening, nothing meaningful at all. The characters were fixed on their starting roles and just moving along with the movie. Then we stopped the movie and started watching The children of the corn. 10 minutes into the movie, you'd be totally sucked in and there was no way out of it.

I'm no movie critic, but I've seen some, and IMHO I think the problem of YA is that these movies are just products that pass by the audience without even trying to leave a mark. They're like commercial, easy listening music, just trying to reach as many audience as possible, so they won't do anything too annoying or risky.

reply

Very astute analysis and it's the precise problem with this movie. It's a lot of incredibly dull exposition and yammering about trite philosophical concepts. None of it's tied to something that we the audience can feel on a visceral level. I have no reason to care about whether the hero learns anything at all from Jeff Bridges. It finally picks up way late in the movie when we and the hero learn about happens to certain babies. Talk about burying the lead!

Maybe if they had revealed this early on all of the training and self discovery scenes might have been tinged with some amount of existential dread. We the audience might want the hero and everyone around him to wake the f--k up.

http://www.youtube.com/user/patbuddha

reply

That's probably because most of the adaptations are nothing more than money grabs by studios trying to create the next Hunger games. They don't really care about the source material. There is no real passion behind the production, everyone is just doing their job on a limited budget and a short time frame. All of which leads to poor quality movies.

reply

You have to understand that alot of critics go in with a neutral viewpoint



Do they really? Do you really read the reviews or just the consensus? Or the lead paragraph of the review?

Again visit the RT site.

Answer the following questions and then we'll talk.

How many the giver, and the maze runner reviews started with similar sentences to this?

"Another YA movie" "Another THG wannabe" "overcrowded YA market" "THG this, THG that."

How many reviews of comic book based movies started with an equivalent.

"Another comic book based movie" "Another batman wanna be" "At least 4 comic based movies every year" "Iron man this Iron man that"


Comic based movies are as formulaic and full of cliches as they can get. Yet critics love them.

reply

1. typical romance, if a boy or girl likes someone that person will/does like them back.


Not true for hunger games, maze runner and besides that's true for comic based movies.

2. Main character is generic without a strong personality (A protaganist with a sense of humor? dont be absurd!)


Oh! isn't one of the critics complains that all these YA films present a special snowflake? or a messiah of sorts? so what's it?
do they all allegedly present a special snowflake or they don't have personality?

Generic characters are true for almost every movie genre. Thrillers, comic based movies (specially this one) rom-coms

3. main character is a special because they just are without any drawbacks, because its YA.


The special snowflake thing is more common to other genres than it is for YA.

Otherwise we wouldn't ever had a spiderman, a batman, a superman, guardian of the galaxy, X men, Noah, Gladiator, Terminator, Children of men. They are just special because there's the need to make them special to have a conflict an plot and a drama.

reply

I think the YA trend of dystopian futures taps into a very real sense of YA fear and insecurity. in these movies, the older generation is always to blame, and the younger generation breaks rules and barriers and "saves" everyone by exposing the machinations of elder control. that's a tale as old as time. the reviewers are generally older, hence their dislike of the YA movies' exposure of the elders' hypocrisy.

__________
7even days

reply

I can't remember the last PG rated movie I saw that was actually good, so the critics might be on to something here...

Even in a sci-fi you need some realism, and realism can't happen in a PG rated movie. You end up with safe characters and safe dialogue, and it comes off as very unnatural.

reply

Agreed, which is why I highly distrust the 91% critics gave to guardian of the galaxy and I think the 33% the giver got and the 61% the maze runner with all their gritty more mature themes and a PG 13 rating are off.

reply

I can't speak about The Giver (I'll watch it tonight probably) but when it comes to other YA movies, I mostly agree with critics. I'm not a person who watch movies based on critics ratings or someone's review... even tho it's much more about personal preference but still, if a premise is interesting or/and it has talented cast/director involved, I'll give it a shot.

However, if you try to rate recent YA films based on parameters for quality that could be applied to any other movie of any genre, their average score is quite low.

Mortal Instruments is horrible, generic, bland and overall a forgettable experience. The Host is even worse. Beautiful Creatures slightly better but still extremely mediocre. Divergent, while it had some interesting ideas and some themes were indeed too similar to those seen in The Hunger Games (I don't mind when they compare movies considering that sometimes it can be positive but in this case negativity was inevitable because THG realized all those conceptual themes much better) overall experience seemed unfocused, rushed, script had serious flaws - some dialogues sounded quite forced and unnatural.

IMO reviews weren't unfair to any of those poorly reviewed movies and even if some were it wasn't by much.

In the end, it's not about thematic or structural similarities between movies of certain genres/sub-genres (comic book movies, YA, found footage etc.), it's about realization, or essentially, it's about good and not-so-good filmmaking.

Is a market saturated with that specific genre at the moment? Yes, it is. But still, market was saturated with found footage movies when Chronicle came out; market is saturated with comic book movies and we still have great films like X-Men DOFP and Captain America WS (and just to mention, not all CB movies got those certified fresh tomatoes - The Amazing Spider-Man 2, Kick Ass 2, Ghost Rider SoV... just to name few recent titles).

Although I agree that anyone should judge movies based on his own merits for quality, truth is that most of movies of that specific category don't give too much hope or optimistic expectations for its audience out there (which doesn't mean we wont see any other successful and good YA film besides The Hunger Games series).

reply

market is saturated with comic book movies and we still have great films like X-Men DOFP and Captain America WS


True, we have an oversaturation of Comic based movies but I'm sorry I just laughed out loud.


X men DOFP is a great movie? is it? Really? So no cliches? no timeline problems?

and winter soldiers is as cliche and formulaic as it can get. And the whole forced romance angle with black widow demerits the narrative.

No offense but this is exactly the bias the critics have and that I'm referring to. Those movies are fairly entertaining and from a production value they are good (special effects, costumes, sound design, cinematography) but they don't bring anything original to the table. And besides critics rarely comment on production value anymore. The maze runner had incredible sound design and remarkable special effects and art direction for a 34 million movie. Even better than the first hunger games movie.A lot of Critics just ignored this and wrote comparisons to say that Hunger games was original. Was hunger games original?

Are X men DOFP and winter soldier original?

reply

"Forced romance"? I think you need to watch the movie again. They start and end as just friends.

reply

All comic based movies are like this
A regular man/group of people who are special in some way are chosen and put throught task because their abilities most of the times in ways they never faced before. There's a love interest which always leads to a cliché kiss/romantic scene. Meanwhile there's a threat to a world/group of people which will lead or hero/heroes to a final confrontation in order to stop this threat. Now, did I just described Superman, Iron Man, Avengers, guardian of the galaxy Captain America, thor, batman, ironman, green lantern x men or daredevil?

I'm not saying these movies are not fun and enjoyable, I'm saying they aren't as deserving of high ratings as the rotten tomatoes site make them out to be. After all I haven't ever read a comic based movie review in which the critic compares to a different superhero movie or to the original source. 

So is there a double standard or not?

reply

That's because every single YA adaptation is complete crap

reply

[deleted]

you keep saying ya book,this book was required reading in school twenty years ago for eleven and twelve year old students.my youngest daughter had to read it at the time.so it is a childrens book.

reply

There is a distinction between children's and young adult literature. Children's books are generally intended for ten and under. Young adult is for eleven through possibly fifteen.

Some will argue that the younger range of Young Adult is Middle Grade (basically preteen) while Teens literature can be 13 and up.

The Giver is generally thought of as young adult.

Bob

reply

I'll tell you why quality conscious critics dislike this kind of material, esp. Hunger Games, Divergent and The Giver: Because these stories are deeply conservative. They set up some unlikely future, based on ignorant people's prejudices about communism, and tell us how happy we should be that we don't live there, but live in this real world instead. Message: Our real world is the best of all possible worlds. This is a deeply right-wing and pro-establishment message. It does not address the problems of the world, and it does not try to change the world for the better, which all other great art does! So this stuff is really bad art, and this is also the reason it is not being compared with GOOD art like Brave New World and Fahrenheit 451. Next to those, this is hilariously awful. It stops critical thinking and brainwashes you to love the world as it is.

The ignorance and conformity of today's youth is tragic. You should read the classics rather than pore over YA conservative claptrap. Then you could learn something about the true potential of human nature and the true scope of a brighter future.

reply

I'm a 34 YO woman. I bet you I've read more classics and seen more movies than half the RT critics.

reply

Awesome post.

reply

The second hunger games actually had a good script and good performances.

The giver was a cliched repeat of many movies we have already seen. We all knew exactly what would happen, the performances were stale, there were no twists, nothing great about it.

reply

The OP is so spot on.

One thing I can say is that of all the YA book to movie films we've had over the years that haven't done financially well, the one that saddened me the most was The Mortal Instruments.

The Mortal Instruments book series is really excellent and I hope that one day we will get City of Ashes and that they rectify the mistakes of the first movie. (especially the marketing). I always thought TMI more so than most YA books had alot of potential to have crossover appeal to males.

Welcome to Morganville. You'll never want to leave.

reply

TMI was a horrible horrible movie. But no reason to compare it to twilight nor attack personally the lead actress on her eyebrows like the very unprofessional "TOP" critic from the NY Post did.
IN his review of the giver peter travis mentioned TMI as a dystopian movie. How ignorant for a "Top" critic.
Comic book movies in fact almost always have the cliche-formulaic love interest that will lead to the cliche-formulaic kiss/romantic scene. That doesn't mean they're like twilight.

reply