This really was something...

Where did you get that info? Russians lost over 14 000 in that war.

Dean you are relly funny :)

Hmm.. Our weapons use 7.62mm bullets and in the army we were ordered to shoot enemy in the head. Which means atleast we are not trying to spare enemy troops.

The fact the soldiers fire their weapons in full-auto in the ending battle is very strange. In a combat situation single shots are several times more effective, they have a habbit of flying where they are supposed to, unlike with full auto.

Holding a 7.62mm weapon steady while firing bursts, auto or single shots isn't a real effort for a normal-weight (~75kg) person, even while standing. From experience I'd say a standing normal person hits a human-sized object with a fast aim from 75-100 meters easily, and a new aim takes less than a second, bang again.

I ended up looking casualties of different wars after reading the thread through, and it seems that ever since world war 2, soviet in-combat casualties have been *very* heavy compared to the opposing forces. It has to do something with the high availability of soldiers/equipment and a loose strategy..

If this is really a realistic movie, I lost all my faith in the russian military (no offense, just tell me I'm wrong!). Training being so non-spartan and all.

Good movie tho, just gotta Love those Mi-24s :)

They were using AK-74s and and AK-74Ss which are chambered in 5.45x39mm not 7.62x39mm.
Russian combat doctrine might be different than American in this regard but the American 5.56x45mm NATO round is designed to kill, not to wound. The idea is that a .22 calibre bullet will fragment and create a wound channel as a big (or bigger) than a full caliber (i.e. 7.62x51m NATO and 7.63x54R) rifle round. These intermediate rounds weigh much less also. The only drawback is the lack of range (compared to a full caliber rifle round, 5.56 out of a 20" barrel is lethal to 800 yds. I believe) but thats negated by the fact that most combat rarely exceeds 100 meters.

Indeed the effects were rather top-notch, and the scenery worked pretty well. Nothing but rock and sand, and I actually found myself wondering why anyone would want to invade something that desolate..

It was also very interesting to see a Russian war-movie; the West has been rather dominating in this genre. Also, wars that haven't been won as such have become viable for films. I was rather torn between seeing the movie as a reprimand of the past in the same way some US films work through the trauma of Vietnam, or if it was actually a patriotic declaration of some sort. Both interpretations have enough basis. The jury is still out on that...

I'd also like to comment on the discussion before on weapons. Indeed even an assault rifle doesn't necessarily kill with on shot, but what Mr. Knowsley neglected to mention in his defense of American troops having difficulties racking up kills in the Gulf, that US/NATO caliber is 5.45mm, if I'm not mistaken, whereas the Russian is 7.62mm. What he said about the modern bullet aiming to incapacitate, it applies to 5.45, but not to the 7.62. The difference here is actually notable in the way of damage favoring the 7.62, while accuracy favors the 5.45. With some personal knowledge, the 7.62 works pretty accurately with single shots, but slip it to auto and aiming becomes really hard. Considering the mass of Mujahdeen soldiers (Afghans) in the end, I also would've expected more fatalities. The 7.62 can riccochet of a rock (plenty of those there) and still take a man out, especially at the apparent distance between the defenses and the attackers. On a more positive note, the hardware looked pretty authentic to me. Especially enjoyed the little detail of the turret of the BMP-2 flying off after a hit to the side.

Of course, this is all rather nit-picking, and I don't really know why I wanted to put that out there as well. Returning to the movie, it was an entertaining piece, and I especially liked that in the end you didn't know who was "the main guy who can't die". Life IS cheap. All in all, a good war film. If the Russian steer clear of patriotic pathos to justify past indiscretions or contemporary politics, I expect more movies of this caliber.

Im from Finlad... you know the small country that kicked your ass in WW2. And Im ready for the next round any day ;) are you?

Your knowledge of history is embarrassing. Russia lost The Winter War, the Continuation War and nearly lost its part in World War II. The Russians are capable soldiers (Stalingrad and Operation Uranus proved that) but to say that they are better than Americans is simply untrue. Conscripts will never be a more capable fighting force than an entirely volunteer army.

1)anyone ever heard of the treaty of rapallo?A secret annex signed on July 29 allowed Germany to train their military in Soviet territory, thus violating the terms of the Treaty of Versailles

2)The Winter War (Finnish: Talvisota, Swedish: Vinterkriget, Russian: Зимняя война, also known as the Soviet-Finnish War or the Russo-Finnish War[7]) broke out when the Soviet Union attacked Finland on November 30, 1939, three months after the start of World War II. Because the attack was judged completely illegal, the Soviet Union was expelled from the League of Nations on December 14. Soviet leader Josef Stalin had expected to conquer the whole country by the end of 1939, but Finnish resistance frustrated the Soviet forces, who outnumbered the Finns 4:1 in men, 100:1 in tanks and 30:1 in aircraft[3]. Finland held out until March 1940, when a peace treaty was signed ceding about 10% of Finland's territory, and 20% of its industrial capacity, to the Soviet Union.

The results of the war were mixed. Although the Soviet forces finally managed to break through the Finnish defence, neither the Soviet Union nor Finland emerged from the conflict unscathed. Soviet losses on the front were tremendous, and the country's international standing suffered. Even worse, the fighting ability of the Red Army was put into question, a fact that some argue contributed to Hitler's decision to launch Operation Barbarossa. Finally, the Soviet forces did not accomplish their primary objective of conquest of Finland, but gained only a secession of territory along Lake Ladoga. The Finns retained their sovereignty and gained considerable international goodwill.

3)someone above said that the russian conscripts were/are good soldiers..the only problems were their leaders like some other poster said they were willing to sacrifice a lot of people in human-wave attacks and by killing those who were trying to escape