First off, I want to say that Batman Begins is my favorite superhero film and my favorite Nolan film next to Memento and I'm not criticizing this film. I do love the Dark Knight, although I do feel the film has some flaws and I found the Dark Knight Rises to be very disappointing (although at least not the trainwrecks that Man of Steel and Batman V Superman turned out to be).
But I'm talking about for the trilogy as a whole, would it had benefited if they had established the characters of Harvey Dent and Selina Kyle early on?
I think establishing Harvey Dent early on would've benefited the Dark Knight. I find it a bit out of character for Harvey Dent to go from being a super great heroic guy to just turn evil so quickly after his traumatic experience. They don't really establish him of having any inner darkness in the Dark Knight (you could argue there was the scene where he was flipping the coin to get information from the guy in the ambulance, but that was a two headed coin so he was in no real danger) If they had established him already in Batman Begins, then they could've explored him further and showed him having a darker side that comes out after Rachael's death and his scarring.
I'm not sure what adding Selina Kyle here would bring to the table other then having a stronger female presence than Rachael Dawes and making the movies less of a sausage fest.
Think they did have Dent in early drafts of Begins but some reasons they saved him for sequels.
Selina Kyle would've been only a stronger female presence, could've been like Year One a hooker or a poor girl/street thief like Gotham who often helps out.
Rachel was probably a two scene character that was forced to be the female lead for two films.
I don't think Hollywood would have the nards to go full Miller and make her into a prostitute, but seeing as how Falcone is in Batman Begins, maybe it could've been like the Long Halloween/When In Rome where she's already established as a cat burglar who is linked to Falcone and the mob.
Prostitute would be too R rated and unnecessary. Could gone the long Halloween/When In Rome route, already a cat burglar or just a party girl who goes to mob or wealthy parties.
The problem with Dent is that if he's doing his job properly then there is no need for Batman. The DA in BB was hesitant to take on Falcone and only did so because of Rachel. He was shot and died while she was poisoned and only survived with Batman's help. If Dent was DA in BB it would be his body in the river...
Dent appears when he needs to in the story, at a point where Batman has driven organised crime underground so that the law actually has some teeth and he can do some good.
As for his "coin flip" transformation from Dent to Twoface, that's the whole point! Joker wanted to prove that sanity was an unstable equilibrium. Hurt a person enough in just the right place and you'll push them over the edge so that they "lose it" and go crazy.
The Joker, Batman and Dent are all victims of isolated, seemingly random, tragedies. ("One bad day" as the Joker refers to it.) This is why The Joker identifies with Batman even though they're morally opposed and also why he wants to bring Dent "into their fold". He genuinely believes Chaos (i.e. chance) is the only real truth in this life and convinces Dent of this while he is still emotionally vulnerable. Dent was lying in that hospital bed desperately trying to find a reason for what happened to him. The Joker lied to him that there wasn't one. He had no plan. It was just bad luck! That's enough to drive anyone insane..
As some users have replied, adding Harvey Dent would have benefited the story of TDK later on. I would have been all for Selina appearing in all three movies in sort of subsequent character development with Batman. Her origins here, a few scenes showing her be a criminal in TDK, then her TDKR role. This would have probably meant Rachel's role needed to be cut down, but since Catwoman is a better character I wouldn't have cared.
Rachel was like a two scene character that was forced as the female lead for two films. Selina was hardly in TDKR but wish they could've done more with her like making her appear in all three films, a street theft turned socialite.
I just think they didn't want to put too much in a movie. I know it was before Sipder-Man 3 and the likes, but they didn't want to pack in too much and have it be jumbled. I do think it would have helped the character and development of the characters, but it would take a tole on this movie for sure.
"Better to be a king for a night than a schmuck for a lifetime"
I think it would have probably been better if Rachel had become Two-Face (same role in BB aside from learning Batman's identity) or Harvey had had her role or very similar in BB. Harvey is done pretty well in TDK but the love triangle is annoying and on the other hand Two-Face could have benefited from having the closeness with Bruce (and more closeness and working together with Gordon).
I'm not real fond of TDKR's Selina and don't see how she would have benefited from or developed a better relationship with Bruce by being introduced earlier.
Rachel becoming Two Face or another villain like Red Hood would been a better arc for her. Could've made it like Earth One have Rachel be Dent's sister and have Dent's death cause her to snap. The love triangle ruined it even further because all they did was make Rachel come off as cold and unsympathetic.
Perhaps they could have taken the Rachel Dawes character and split her up into three different characters; Harvey Dent, the ally in the DA's office, Selina Kyle, the love interest, and Dr. Leslie Thompkins, the friend from the past who's disappointed in Bruce Wayne's lifestyle until she learns the truth. Harvey Dent wouldn't need to have a role in Batman Begins as big as his Dark Knight role. Just establish him as an idealistic district attorney who wants to take down the mob, so instead of having to establish Dent's goals or motivation in the Dark Knight, more time could be used to show a darker more trouble side to Dent to make the transition to Two-Face more believable.
I'm not real fond of TDKR's Selina and don't see how she would have benefited from or developed a better relationship with Bruce by being introduced earlier.
Truth be told, there's a lot about the Dark Knight Rises I'm not fond of, but if we're being honest, the movie had to fill a hole left by the death of Heath Ledger, so they overcompensated and crammed a bunch of elements into the movie that didn't really work well together. The first two movies were crime sagas as much as they were superhero movies with a large focus on organize crime, but Selina Kyle was established in the Dark Knight Rises, which used the "Harvey Dent Act" to abandoned the organized crime angle and was sort of just a pure superhero movie. If she had been introduced in the crime world that was in Begins or Dark Knight, she could be developed much differently that how she was introduced in the Dark Knight Rises. In Year One and the Long Halloween, she is seen robbing Carmine Falcone repeatedly, and in When in Rome, she is investigating the possibility that Falcone is her biological father. Even if Heath still died and the movie still ended up a huge mess, Catwoman could have been an entirely different character had she been introduced earlier.
Perhaps they could have taken the Rachel Dawes character and split her up into three different characters; Harvey Dent, the ally in the DA's office, Selina Kyle, the love interest, and Dr. Leslie Thompkins, the friend from the past who's disappointed in Bruce Wayne's lifestyle until she learns the truth. Harvey Dent wouldn't need to have a role in Batman Begins as big as his Dark Knight role. Just establish him as an idealistic district attorney who wants to take down the mob, so instead of having to establish Dent's goals or motivation in the Dark Knight, more time could be used to show a darker more trouble side to Dent to make the transition to Two-Face more believable.
I'm not sure how Selina would have gotten to know Bruce or why they would be attracted to each other, a love interest aside from a friend from the past doesn't seem to fit with how driven Bruce was in BB. A part of the appeal of Two-Face is that as Harvey he worked closely with Gordon and Batman so the role probably should be somewhat substantial but yeah, it would be better if a second film was able to go more into his dark side rather than trying to establish all aspects of his character.
I'm not real fond of TDKR's Selina and don't see how she would have benefited from or developed a better relationship with Bruce by being introduced earlier.
Truth be told, there's a lot about the Dark Knight Rises I'm not fond of, but if we're being honest, the movie had to fill a hole left by the death of Heath Ledger, so they overcompensated and crammed a bunch of elements into the movie that didn't really work well together. The first two movies were crime sagas as much as they were superhero movies with a large focus on organize crime, but Selina Kyle was established in the Dark Knight Rises, which used the "Harvey Dent Act" to abandoned the organized crime angle and was sort of just a pure superhero movie. If she had been introduced in the crime world that was in Begins or Dark Knight, she could be developed much differently that how she was introduced in the Dark Knight Rises.
If she had become Catwoman in the second film (appearing in the first film or not) that could have been a fine addition to the idea of escalation and unintended consequences (although I have issues with Catwoman suddenly taking on the costume and being an effective criminal and fighter aside from a supernatural aspect like in BR although I guess she could have had years of offscreen training and just suddenly take on the costume). It could be a good dilemma for Batman if she was primarily stealing from and hurting the mob.
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I'm not sure how Selina would have gotten to know Bruce or why they would be attracted to each other, a love interest aside from a friend from the past doesn't seem to fit with how driven Bruce was in BB.
Could've had Bruce met her at a party or have her as a little girl/street theft seeing the Wayne murders like in Gotham.
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I think introducing both Dent AND Kyle would be too contrived, it's not necessary, there's no reason or need for Bruce to have met her at such an early stage.
But for Sure Dent could have been Rachel's boss instead of the other guy.
Well it might be hard to squeeze Kyle in there, I can see Dent being inserted into scenes without him over crowding the movie. Remember that other guy at the DA's office who was dating Rachel who ended getting got shot after opening up Falcone's crate? You could replace him with Dent easily. Maybe introduce him as Rachel's boyfriend when Bruce is visiting Gotham for Joe Chill's arraignment. I could seem him at the scene where Falcone gets busted. He could also be inserted into the scene where Bruce Wayne and his model friends are having dinner, maybe say a thing or two about Batman and establish who he is. Maybe add one or two scenes of him talking to Gordon or whatever, but at most that just adds like 90 seconds to the run time. Now with Catwoman, sure, you'd have to squeeze in yet another subplot and work it into the grand scheme of things, but Dent could easily have fit into Batman Begins.
Remember that other guy at the DA's office who was dating Rachel who ended getting got shot after opening up Falcone's crate? You could replace him with Dent easily.
Yeah, that's what I said. They weren't dating btw.