MovieChat Forums > Malèna (2001) Discussion > Does beauty really matter?

Does beauty really matter?

posted 2 years ago by TheMan18 (13055)
17 replies | jump to latest

Ooh, mind swallowing and controversial question and based on this movie too, but does female beauty really matter and why? As in, in "Malena" (2000), why does that factor alone cause her to be unsafe and then get beaten up etc, why not just treat it as an ordinary factor and matter of perspective?

Heck in some cases, this "argument" was even used by some female characters in some films and some series (remember the notorious "Design" Law and Order one SVU, God) who did wrong things etc but why is it not only a preferable and advantage oriented factor but one that causes either competition or strong love or even hatred among some?

Thanks.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

I haven't seen this film, so I don't really see your point, but as far as I'm concerned, complaining about being a target because one is 'too beautiful' is akin to complaining that one is a target for being 'too rich'. There's always an option in either case. Give your money away, and play down your looks. Ugly people can't be beautiful, and poor people can't be rich, but beautiful people can be ugly, if they want, and rich people can be poo, if they want.

Also, ever heard of the Missing White Giri Syndrome? Conventionally pretty women are put on a pedestal. If something abd happens to them, the whole world stops. If something terrible happens to an ugly, homely, or less conventionally pretty person, no one cares. It makes FAR MORE sense for a criminal to target a poor and ugly person, than a rich and attractive one, UNLESS they're trying to frame someone, because poor and ugly people derive ZERO interest/pity/pressure to investigate.

[–] TheMan18 (13055) 2 years ago

It might make more sense if you also do see it.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

Reading through the comments, this film sounds insufferable.

I hate the 'beauty equals goodness'/poor little pretty girl Cinderella bullshit fairytale. Beauty is a PRIVILEGE. The beautiful beat up and hate on the ugly. People have told me I'm good-looking, but I have ALWAYS identified with the ugly, because speaking personally, I admire beauty, as do others, and so I know how badly, ugly/homely women are treated.

Men expect women to be beautiful and cater to the male gaze, and so any woman who falls short of this is despised. No wonder other women were jealous of Malena if the men were giving her favours because of her beauty. Her beauty, like a man's physical strength, is what's prized most among her sex, and from an evolutionary POV it's what helps her thrive.

Pity the poor ugly women, NOT the SPOILED pretty ones, who every man SIMPS for. 😠

And THAT'S the OPPOSITE of 'misogyny' because feminists often are derided for being 'ugly' and 'homely', and MISOGYNISTS only favour attractive women. In fact there was a FEMINIST article discussed on this site yesterday about how male AMPAS members only favour attractive women they secretly want to have sex with, and NOT women who present other qualities. Now, *THAT'S* the TRUTH.

[–] letess (1568) 2 years ago

You really have to see the movie. Maybe you can rent it. It is worth watching. It’s in Italian and it’s very Italian, actually very Sicilian. And seeing Monica as well. This topic doesn’t cover this movie. A desirable woman does wreak havoc on this village bc of envy and malice but the 13-year-old who idolizes her is precious. And the ending is not a sad ending. It’s difficult to have discussions with people who don’t see the movie even if the op is asking a general question which doesn’t pertain to the movie. Malena was a well known and wonderful movie. And it is from the point of view of a young boy and other young boys with whom she mesmerizes.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

manfred is the local loon, he's giving dissertations on films and things he's never seen. he goes from board to board commenting on anything and everything if theres activitity there.

he'll say the most loony shlt possible, hoping someone will engage him. theres 2 options, either he has some illness, maybe autism and he doesn't interact with people in the real world because he can't, or he's drinking and typing.

this isn't my first account, and i've even had PMs about him. he's laughed at around these parts.

[–] letess (1568) 2 years ago

I know. I think he was in an another movie discussion and he hadn’t seen the movie on that one either. And then some of the comments are just out there. There are more loons than not on this movie site. I can’t imagine giving an opinion on something you haven’t seen, haven’t tasted, haven’t experienced. It is very sad. This movie is just too good to dismiss and get tangled up in his messiness.

[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

Maybe "Manfred" does what he's accused for by "deleted".
I don't know cause these are the firsts posts I've read of him.
And in most parts I agree with "Manfred".

While this movie is great (just gave it 9/10) I wondered why Malèna wasn't aware of the effect she and her beauty has on others. And how it put her in high danger in that 'gossip town'. Men longing for her, women are jealous. She wasn't only ignoring it, she walked around in suggestive beautiful dresses.
That's still no excuse for others to peck on her or later even beat her and shear her hair...wrapped in the dubious moral of allegedly punishing an evil collaborator. ☻

Please, don't get me wrong.
Men AND women always should be allowed to dress and walk around as they like. But for our own safety, we should leastwise betimes think about how we appear to others.
As a youngster and 'poor student' I hitchhiked often and fellow students asked me if they could go with me. When they arrived at the meeting point, I almost had a heart attack. I never (!) wore hot pants or miniskirts while hitchhiking, because rather wanted to land safely at my destination and not behind the next bushes. 😧

[–] letess (1568) a year ago

It looks like you saw the movie and enjoyed it. Manfred comments on topics but never sees the movie. So if this is who you want to agree with, that’s fine. Does beauty really matter? Anyone can comment. It becomes a non sequitur. But how that works in this movie is completely different.

What does “beautiful suggestive dresses” even mean. It seems an oxymoron to me. For Malena, disappearing in a crowd would mean she’d have to wear a bag over her face and figure. In seeing this movie, the viewer realizes that in 1940 Sicily for her to have lost her husband and money, all she has is her pride. The townspeople, especially the women, want to humiliate her. A woman has to be married. The women don’t want their husbands looking at a beautiful vulnerable widow. She’s done nothing wrong. She’s not trying to be seductive or provocative. It’s her very existence. And she’s very alone. Grieving. Starving. Being aloof adds to her mystery. And she’s not that savvy. At the end, with her hair shorn, wounded, walking in the town with her husband, also wounded, arm in arm says it all. Both in battle. Head held high. Plus, the narrator who is the young boy now a man says he couldn’t remember the names of all the women in his life, but will always remember Malena.

[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

Of course the young boy always remembered her name until he became the old narrator and probably will till the end of his life.
Malèna was his first love.

"And she’s not that savvy."
How did you come to that conclusion? She's rarely talking.

"She’s not trying to be seductive or provocative."
Doesn't she? Her dresses are seductive and how she walks the streets is provocative. Maybe it's not her intention, but that's exactly what it is. Well, as already said, that doesn't give anybody the right to treat her as she was treated.

And I dont understand why (sexually) suggestive and beautiful are contradictional or as you said an "oxymoron". Suggestive dresses can be very beautiful.

However, apparently we've different perspectives on the events.
Leastwise we both enjoyed this wonderful movie.

[–] letess (1568) a year ago

Beautiful dresses. Being well groomed. Walking to town. Doesn’t come close to hitchhiking and hot pants. Too cute to live?

One suitor would be better than prostitution at a brothel with dozens. I’m not sure she was as smart as she was beautiful. That’s what I mean by savvy. She didn’t play her cards.

[–] TimeTunnel (4769) a year ago

Screenshots taken from the beginning of the movie.
Malèna's husband is at war, she lives alone.
Innocent Malèna goes to town. Apparently on a regular basis, cause the youngsters meet and wait for her.
We don't know what she's doing downtown.
A grocery bag looks different to me.
https://i.postimg.cc/8PnKY2Zt/Mal-na-min-05-07.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Nj3Ns1qX/Mal-na-min-05-36.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/x1JxV67Y/Mal-na-min-06-04.jpg
Suggestive beautiful dress, shining white, so tight that her straps are showing, white high heels. That's the equivalent of hot pants and miniskirt...across the world, not just in a 'gossip town' of Sicily 1940. If she really doesn't know what she's doing, she must be dumb like a plumb.
I wouldn't hitchhike in that dress either.

And having one 'sugar daddy' instead of many is your definition of "savvy"?! Hmm...Hmm.

[–] JFZ (1459) a year ago

Her standing out in that crowd, that alone makes her a target.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

wow my favorite film...

Her beauty was nothing more than a "vehicle" to push the story and show you various things, malena was a victim of her beauty, it made her an outcast among the women of the village because of their jealousy and was just a piece of meat for the men. apart from maybe getting a few favours when it came to getting illegal foods and things during the war, it was just a curse for her.

But her being beautiful and therefore an outcast made her lonely and isolated from everyone else, especially when her husband went to war. and thats where renato comes in. he sees all the stuff that she goes through.

the last scene where malena returns to the village, with her short hair, no make up, her husband with her and not looking as beautiful as she once did stops her from being a threat towards the village women, they accept her, even help her.

[–] HarveyManFredSin (4877) 2 years ago

With all due respect, I'm guessing you're either a narcissist, or a simp, or maybe both. Possibly gay too (which isn't a bad thing; I despise homophobia).

Most *actual* outcasts identify with the ugly and thus downtrodden, NOT the physically beautiful, who are always put on a pedestal and made to feel better than everyone else.

Edward Scissorhands is a better movie about an ACTUAL outcast, because ACTUAL outcasts are NEVER pretty. They always look weird.

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

you've been around here for a long time, i've even read PMs about you, you're so desperate for attention you're commenting on a film that you say yourself that you've never seen, you don't understand what it's about, and i guess you're looking for things that people comment on and by saying some ignorant rubbish getting negative attention.

you're famous here as being a loon. i don't know if you're autistic, i don't know if you're drinking and typing i have no idea what you're talking about, you've never seen the film, you wouldn't understand it if you did.

so why dont you shut up? and anyone who uses the word "simp" must be a 14 year old jigaboo.

[–] letess (1568) 2 years ago

I have seen this movie and this question really doesn’t fit here. Beauty does matter to answer your question. It always has. And this does showcase Monica Bellucci in all her glory.

But this movie is in WWII Italy and the way people see women in Sicily. As soon as Malena’s husband is said to be dead, she is now an unmarried woman. She is so beautiful and so inviting that women are insanely jealous and despise her to the point where they are savage and the men love her but feel in her predicament she owes them her body. She’s dragged through the streets and is forced into an unbearable existence. This is where her beauty, poverty, and no husband sink her. Her honor is now in question.

BUT the main part of the movie is the 13-year-old boy, Renato, who is enthralled with her and wants to save her. The story is told through his eyes. Malena’s misfortune. And then you see the last scene. There’s a voiceover of the adult Renato, as only the Italians can do - “Time has passed, and I have loved many women. And as they’ve held me close…. And asked if I will remember them I’ve said - yes I will remember you. But the only one I’ve never forgotten is the one who never asked, Malena.”

[–] TrentnQuarantino (9235) 2 years ago

Beauty is one of the only things in the world that matters. Defining beauty is what is difficult. One phrase that has been used is that "truth is beauty". Not all truths are beautiful though they may lead to beauty in the long run when recognized in fullness.