MovieChat Forums > Training Day (2001) Discussion > Why is Jake even there?

Why is Jake even there?


I guess I could answer my own question by saying "well then there wouldn't be a movie," but I was thinking, why did Alonzo involve Jake in anything? Not just the raid on Roger, but the entire day?

Alonzo has a really pressing problem: he has to raise a million bucks before midnight, or else he's dead. So why make this Jake's "training day"? He seems to have enough clout (his own car, not needing to check in at the station or an office etc.) that he could've just told Jake "Look, something has come up, consider this a day off with pay, meet me tomorrow at 10 AM at the same coffee shop."

Jake was completely not needed — as a knowing accomplice or as a hapless patsy — for anything Alonzo needed to do that day in order to save his own life. Shaking down Blue, ripping off Sandman, paying off the Three Wise Men, raiding Roger, all could've been done without Jake being there.

Not knocking the movie — like I said, without Jake, there'd be no story — just making an observation.

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That's actually true. You got me thinking the same thing.

I actually came to this board to see if anyone had issues with the movie (I liked it, but it seemed a little far fetched). I had no idea why Denzel would involve the rookie. I had a hard time believing that this all could possibly happen in one day.

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I think Alonzo needed a virgin shooter to help him carry out his dirty work. Having a rookie, above reproach, in on the kill (of Roger) keeps him in the clear.

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He needed him for the raid on Roger, which is how he got his money.

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Not really though, Jake added nothing to the raid. He refused to shoot, didn't want to take the money etc. Alonzo's men did all of the work. The only thing they used Jake for was to be the shooter in their concocted version of the story. But that role as the pretend shooter could've gone to any of Alonzo's crew... and should've, considering what was at stake for Alonzo that day.

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Having a rookie around adds to Alonzo's credibility though. Who would believe a rookie cop would go along with this corruption (maybe quite a few on second thought!)...

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But I don't think Alonso needed credibility in this case. He had the blessing of the Three Wise Men to take down Roger, and a "real" warrant to boot.

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There is a part where Alonzo specifically refers to Jake as a "virgin shooter". He wants him there to take potential blame away from the others. So, even though the Three Wise Men gave their blessing, they still have to play by sufficient rules to not get others interested in giving the killing more than a casual eye. Having the "warrant" does not matter, either. It is an arrest warrant, not a warrant to kill a suspect. Such will come under investigation no matter what.

I also think that this method is how Alonzo recruits, so he thinks that he may find a new member for his crew by using Jake in this manner. If Jake declines, he has him killed ... or tries to.

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Hmmm, your post just made me think of another possibility. What if Alonzo planned on killing Jake REGARDLESS of how he acted during the raid. Alonzo fed Jake to the Mexican gangsters not because Jake wasn't really happy about going along with the story, but just to silence him before he could be interviewed. With Jake dead, they'd have nothing but Alonzo's version of the story to use (even if Jake's story matched)

Your second point, about Alonzo's recruiting methods, brings me back to my original post: considering he'll be dead by midnight if he doesn't raise a million dollars, this is the LAST day Alonzo would want to be breaking in a rookie. If I were Alonzo, in that opening scene phone call I'd tell Jake to hold off til tomorrow. It's not like Alonzo or Jake have to sign in or punch a clock.

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Is there anything in the movie that suggests that is the day Alonzo had to break in Jake? I tend to think that Alonzo made it happen that day because he saw it as a golden opportunity. Alonzo himself admits many times that he cultivates several angles (e.g. chess, not checkers), and I think he never doubted he would get the money, and having Jake there as the "virgin shooter" is what made it happen. Jake was instrumental to cleanly carrying out the plan, and so I tend to think that Alonzo had Jake start that day on purpose because it suited him.

I also think that Alonzo did not always intend to send Jake off to be killed. He has to recruit people somehow, just as he recruited his others guys in some form or fashion. I think Alonzo was hoping to kill two or three birds with one stone. If Jake is susceptible (as were the other members of Alonzo's crew), then they are up one more person who is beholden/loyal to them. If not, then they get rid of him.

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Alonzo knew that the cash was buried under the floor so it was just a matter of arranging a way to get the "pusher" out of the way and steal his money. Having Jake along as a "virgin shooter" makes them look clean, which is just the way he planned it. He told Jake he planned it all week so he clearly had plans to use this clean, lilly-white, white boy as the shooter. He had him smoke some pot/crack which set him up where he had to go along.

Yes, the movie has some obvious plot holes(what movie doesn't when you watch it enough?) but it's pretty close to reality and definitely gritty as Hell....

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^ I agree with Pope Duke.

The fact that Alonzo made this Jake's training day is also in line with Alonzo's character. He doesn't play it safe because he feels invincibly powerful. He feels he can manipulate situations as they occur & people as he reads their inclinations, so he would not be worried about Jake messing anything up.

Alonzo also plays psychological games with people much more than simply using brute force or thoroughly planning situations. He's less of a strategist than a manipulator; he gave Jake drugs to manipulate him, not to actually use it to invalidate Jake's story later (he would never let Jake talk to begin with; as shown when he left him to be killed later). He was using these situations as a test - will Jake join his crooked team or not? Can Jake be manipulated or not?
The movie title is a bit tongue-in-cheek, IMO - he is trying to train Jake to be a crooked cop.

Throughout the movie, Alonzo puts Jake in positions where Jake has to compromise his ethics a bit. Alonzo puts a spin on it to be sure, but he lets Jake know he can "get dirty" so as to catch big criminals or go to some desk job (as if those are the only two options; but he's asserting his own power at the same time). Jake does compromise a few times, but it's because he doesn't fully see Alonzo's crookedness yet (he's trying to believe it's justified). Involving Jake in these crooked incidents (for lack of a better word) is, as mentioned above, a golden opportunity to test Jake's character & see if he can be corrupted & manipulated.

A big theme in the movie is the idea that pure goodness does conquer evil. Alonzo keeps telling Jake you have to be a bit bad to conquer the bad. However, the only reason Jake lives is because of the good he did; the Mexicans let him go because he saved the guy's cousin (or was it his niece?). This may seem like a convenient coincidence in the plot, but it's a part of the theme. Even the people on the streets, as hardened as they are, ultimately respect Jake's moral strength over Alonzo's crooked power. This is Alonzo's blind spot, and why he'd be overconfident in bringing Jake along to begin with.

However, Alonzo begins to slowly realize that Jake's hesitance to go along with his crookedness is not cowardice but strength. In the scene where Jake puts the gun to his head, it fully registers to Alonzo that Jake is just as powerful as him, but in a different way. This is why Alonzo feeds him to the Mexicans to be killed. He knows Jake will not be corrupted, but also that he is NOT weak enough to be manipulated or scared silent, and so he knows that Jake poses a great threat to him. As I noted above, this was not a part of any strategy; Alonzo is confident to manipulate situations as they arise, in the event things don't go as he'd like (ie. Jake won't be corrupted).

That's sort of a tangent, but I think it explains why Alonzo would choose to involve Jake. Sure, there may have been some strategy involved as far as the plans for the day, but I think he mainly chose to involve Jake to break him in psychologically.

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jake's 'goodness' is more unpredictable & more dangerous in that world than alonzo's principled 'badness'.



“Can't go wrong with taupe."- Wynn Duffy

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Four years later and I agree with you 100%, @nutsberryfarm (!!!!)

I'm reading a lot of ideas here justifying Alonzo's reasons for having Jake there on this one particular day. But I'd say, Jake was too "good" for his own good, so to speak, and I'm even more convinced that Jake may have been planted onto Alonzo by, perhaps, the Russians themselves.

My point is, sure, Alonzo was corrupt and did a lot of shady things. This man had things so twisted to the point where we couldn't exactly tell if he was bad or badass. Along with all the really bad things he did, there came some good. So, same goes for Jake? With all the good he did (which was either tantamount to Alonzo's "bad" or greater), was there just as much or even greater bad?

I think Jake was married to the Russian mafia.

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i still stick by my original point.  seen lots of 'zo's come and fade...





🎍Season's greetings!🎅🌲

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Good to see you heavily active on the IMDb, @nutsberryfarm. Also agreeing with your original point and will be holding onto one more point to add of my own: that it all comes back to watching out for and protecting family. Jake was married to the Russians.

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[deleted]

uhh...i think knowitallgrrrl hit the nail directly on the head.

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Nice post knowitallgirl. This, plus the virgin shooter angle is the answer.

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Very good post.. Let me start by saying that I am a fan of this movie, although, I too have had many questions regarding the story line after repeated viewings. I've always held the belief that any one of a couple small changes in the ending would answer many of my plot questions...

First suggestion.. Alonzo should have gotten away with it. I understand the underlying need for us to believe that "good always trumps evil..." but as much effort went into painting Alonzo as the hardened, street smart veteran, willing to do whatever it takes for self-preservation... I have trouble believing that Jake, alone, could take down the beast. I especially disagree with the scene where the "hood-homies" take Jake's side over Alonzo's (I mean why not just kill Jake and 'Lonzo and keep the money? That had to be running through at least one of the homie's heads).

Second suggestion... It really should have been a TRAINING DAY.. The whole day just turned out to be some super-elaborate-evaluation-method designed to select only the absolute best detectives.. those with a "just right" amount of corruptibility and compliance mixed with good decision making skills and adaptability.

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Excellent post knowitallgirl :)

It does indeed fit with Alonzo's character plus having Jake there had its objective advantages. Also, it wasn't a miscalculation on Alonzo's part. Everything that could be planned on/calculated he got right and he should have won. He only didn't because of a set of circumstances he couldn't possibly have foreseen nor planned for.

Great movie.

"The Love you take is equal to the Love you make" The Beatles.

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[deleted]

Hoyt's role was simply to add credibility to the raid and boost the chances they would get away with it.

Every single police shooting (especially a fatal shooting) subsequently is reviewed by the police department and determined to be justified or unjustified.

Yes, the Three Wise Men were in on it and the warrant was real, but these guys can't prevent a review board from taking up the issue. Because Alonzo's trigger-happy crew has done this before, it is probable that at least some in the department are keeping a close eye on them.

Having Hoyt as the shooter gives the raid -- and its fatal shooting -- legitimacy that might not be there if Roger ends up as yet another hapless victim of Alonzo's crack narcotics crew.

As some have mentioned, this particular day was indeed critically important. But Hoyt's participation -- rather than being a crutch -- actually greatly improved the operation's chances for success.

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And Alonzo easily won. Smiley was on the verge of killing Jake and it's only movie magic that saved him. So Alonzo's confidence at his ability to control the situation was justified.

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Many would argue it was also 'movie magic' that got him into a hole in the first place when he gave up his gun and ammo...

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I do agree with the OP that it doesn't seem really necessary for Jake to be there. One of the wise men Alonzo introduces is the DA who reviews police shootings. With him on board, ANY of Alonzo's team could have killed Roger and been cleared. If they'd changed his character to just make him a Plain Jane ADA, it would have worked better because he wouldn't have had any special influence on police shootings.

Here's to the health of Cardinal Puff.

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Isn't the whole involving him, feeling him out, getting him involved too quickly to be able to think much before it's too late ... isn't that how he keeps his pool of bent coppers topped up?

I always assumed he was looking to see if the young guy was going to get on board, and then planned to kill him when it was obvious he was a no-go.


Please do not make negative comments about a film YOU NEVER SAW. It makes you look stupid.

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"I always assumed he was looking to see if the young guy was going to get on board".

It´s incredible though how much his judgement stank in picking this particular guy for his would-be partner in crime as nothing about Hawke´s cutesy do-gooder straight arrow family man suggested that he could be "bent", especially in only one day. Surely, there must have been more likely candidates than him around. Also, while I understand the advantages of pinning the shooting on him, it wasn`t something that´s absolutely necessary; very likely, they would have gotten away with it anyhow.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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It might have been a mixture of things. If Jake had in fact pushed to work on that team, and applied for the job, then Harris is stuck with either insulating himself and the rest of the guys full time with a potential nark so close, or trying to flip him. The team were into a lot of crap; trying to operate with an outsider so close would have been really a pain in the butt.

Also, Harris might have been aware of the power of having such a squeaky clean guy on his team; some of the others looked a bit tainted and their records might have reflected that. Harris' view of human corruptibility might have grown to be a bit unrealistic after having compromised so much for so long, and he took a gamble that didn't pay off. I don't see it as much of a plot hole, more an indictment on Harris' corrupted state, his feeling of invincibility and a massive overestimation of his ability to control people and situations.

'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings.

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Must admit your explanations do go some ways. But still I find Harris`s miscalculation with Jake a bit `too` massive, and his behaviour in the rookie`s company (as well as elsewhere) too outrageous from the very beginning, to accept them as much realistic - if "realism" is what we`re after here... the film kind of seemed to be, ultimately. I can`t really see how even years of ego tripping reckless cowboy life would lead him to believe that, essentially, every cop that signs up for the job, does so from desire to smoke PCP, abuse power at every opportunity and commit armed robberies. Some subtlety of manner would really have been adviseable for Mr Harris there.



"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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I tend to agree with the OP and other posters who have expressed the view that on this particular day, Alonzo might tell the rookie to take a hike. I guess it could be postulated that the order had come down from well above Alonzo, that it had to be this day. But as others have noted Alonzo does seem to wield a lot of influence.

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Alonzo tried to convince Hoyt to use the b-itch on roger. I guess he wasn't high enough....

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Alonzo gives Jake many chances to leave, even points a gun to his head at one point, however due to Jake's ambitions he decides to stay. Who knows maybe Alonzo had additional future plans for him, we only see the course of one day. You should really watch director's comments for this film, that is all explained there. I am sure it will answer a lot of your questions.

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After reading all the previous replies, it kind of makes sense that they needed Jake to add legitimacy to what they do. What I don't understand is though why Alonzo even went back to his family; someone in risk of dying that night should've been hurrying to return the money!

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Yeah, I thought about that too last time I saw it. It may be because the mechanism behind returning the money moved at its own speed, and he would have had to cool his heels for a bit to allow for the thing to be set up. There are a few indications throughout the film that hew has a few things on the go beyond what we are seeing; he might have been waiting for the set up.

'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings.

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As others have already mentioned, its because Hoyt adds credibility to the story. To quote Alonzo directly, he's a "virgin shooter above suspicion." Not really much mystery about it. Alonzo explains it to the rest of his team while Hoyt is pointing the shotgun at him

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As others have already mentioned, its because Hoyt adds credibility to the story. To quote Alonzo directly, he's a "virgin shooter above suspicion." Not really much mystery about it. Alonzo explains it to the rest of his team while Hoyt is pointing the shotgun at him

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ALONZO knew there was a big risk of him dying. Even if he got the money, who says they wouldn't kill him anyway? Maybe he wanted to transmit his knowledge before dying. I'm sure that when he was told a guy wanted to join his crew, he immediately thought "A rookie? He probably knows nothing about the streets. Kinda like me when I first started".

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