MovieChat Forums > Fitzcarraldo (1982) Discussion > Fitzcarraldo NOT in the Top 250? Absurd...

Fitzcarraldo NOT in the Top 250? Absurd!

posted 19 years ago by niktemadur
38 replies | jump to latest

Fitzcarraldo is clearly one of the greatest, most artistically ambitious movies ever made. Fitzcarraldo also cut through social and cultural barriers.

I know a ranch-hand, a man from central Mexico who, when asked what his favourite movie was, the man answered (in Spanish): "There's a film,I can't remember the title, about a man who lives in the Amazon and tries to take a huge boat up one side of a mountain and down the other".

I know an Astronomy PhD in Galactic Structure who considers Fitzcarraldo to be "one of the greatest films ever made".

I know a businessman who told me Fitzcarraldo was "one of the most joyous experiences I've had in my life, certainly the best movie".

When queried a bit further, it turned out none of these three knew IMDb existed.

One more: I select and screen movies every Wednesday at a local non -profit cultural center. The second film I screened was Fitzcarraldo, and 45 people showed up, with no publicity whatsoever. Since then, the best crowd I've had, with publicity, has been thirty or less... except for (ahem) Cobra Verde, which I screened a month and a half later, separating them on purpose. We hit 45 people again.

My personal take on it: Fitzcarraldo is a perfect, stand-alone counterpart to another masterpiece, Apocalypse Now. Where Apocalypse showed the dark side of the jungle (civilized man gone wrong meets the jungle), Fitz showed the illuminated side (civilized man in his purest, most idealistic form, meets the jungle). Apocalypse may have had Brando in unpredictable form, but Fitz had Kinski in top form!

However, Fitzcarraldo is a film that many USA filmlovers don't know, since it's not often screened (theatre) or shown (TV). USA filmlovers are by far the biggest voting block in IMDb.

Surely Fitzcarraldo deserves better. So what do you say, people? Let's kick this movie up, let's put Fitzcarraldo into the radar screen where it belongs!

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] JessGold412 19 years ago

Not just that, NO Herzog is in the top 250. The top 250 is more like the most popular movies of all time. I am pretty sure most of the voters on IMDB don't know as much about the art of film as they should.

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] 19 years ago

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[–] AllerAuCinema 19 years ago

I'd prefer that Fitzcarraldo remain somewhat anonymous -- let the people who actually understand the power of visionary direction and the thrill of passionate acting keep this one to themselves.

To the fans of Hollywood dreck, who wouldn't appreciate this anyway (or would say "tooo long...too boring!1!!"), the Focker movies and car chases.

[–] jmpearson37 19 years ago

I unfortunately have to agree with you...not only on Fitzcarraldo, but on all films of this type. As it stands, it has a very appreciative and very insightful following. If it were to hit the mainstream..."too long" and "too boring" would be the biggest reactions. I've just ordered a rental copy for the store I work for, but it's definitely not one I'll be recommending to mass audiences. Let's keep the word of mouth on this masterpiece positive, and not drag it down by negative reactions from people who can't sit still for more than 90 minutes of explosions!

[–] MetalMiike 19 years ago

When they did a pole of Channal 4 viewers in the UK, it got into the top 50 (I think it might have been 46).

Film-making is hard but that's no excuse to do it badly!

[–] teh5thhorseman 19 years ago

I agree full heartedly, this movie moved me to tears.
It may have been a little drawn out, but the ambition of the director and the character himself shine through. The end was one of the most beautiful things I have seen in my life (granted I have only 17 years).

[–] Gregoire-2 19 years ago

Aguirre, Wrath of God should definitely be top 100. Fitzcarraldo, the top 500 maybe.

[–] Rainer01 19 years ago

I didn't see Fitzcarraldo as beeing drawn out. I was so drawn in that i forgot i was watching a movie and wanted to keep living that crazy life with Herzog & Kinski. I'm actually almost glad to know that i don't have the same taste as the people who voted movies like Toy Story 2, Sideways and Gladiator into the top 250. I only saw Fitzcarraldo last week, so it's in my top 5 at the moment. Although Aguirre is another really good film i much preferred Fitzcarraldo. The ending was so satisfying. I can't wait to see Les Blank's documentary, Burden of Dreams, about the production of Fitzcarraldo. I was fascinated enough just by the director's commentary on the DVD. anyone interested in Herzog/Kinski movies should see My Best Fiend i really enjoyed it.

[–] tgold78 19 years ago

If you haven't seen it yet, Burden of Dreams is a fantastic and truly great film in its own right. Les Blank was smart enough not to just do a "making of" film documentary of a movie, but allowed the filming of Fitzcarraldo be just the setting, within the jungle, of a fascinating look at foreign cultures, jungle animal life, culture clashes, and plenty of other subjects that spontaeously came to be. It's a brilliant film on its own, and the Criterion Collection edition is great! It includes the legendary short film, "Werner Herzog Eats his Shoe," which came about through a fantastic set of circumstances. And, finally, the commentary is GREAT too! Herzog, Blank, and the film's editor, I believe, all have their say. If you loved Fitzcarraldo, you'll, without a doubt, love Burden of Dreams, as well!

--Todd Gold

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] RovingGambler 19 years ago

Hey now, I loved Fitzcarraldo, but I also loved Sideways. Actually, most typical people that like the usual Hollywood movies hate Sideways. It, like Fitzcarraldo, is only appreciated by film aficionados.

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You talkin' to me?

[–] Rainer01 19 years ago

Are you comparing sideways to Fitzcarraldo?
Or just saying that people who use “rare” quotes like “you talkin’ to me” are film aficionados?
Just because the typical people who like the usual Hollywood movies say it's crap doesn't always mean it's definitely not crap. I know it's coool to be different but not when your being different with a large minority for the sake of being different.

Sideways was an alright film, nothing special at all. Maybe for bourgeois society types who are interested in film and wine because it’s hip in their circles. I don’t think Sideways can only be appreciated by aficionados, I know lots of wankers who know nothing about film that loved Sideways. It’s one of those films which is on the border of Hollywood that appeals to middle class, middle age people who want to be film buffs. I’m not necessarily saying it’s a bad film, but while I was watching it with some friends we were drinking wine mocking the people these characters portrayed and it made me feel sick to think that there are people that actually take themselves this seriously. It is not a groundbreaking film, not extremely interesting and did not necessarily need to be made.
But for what it is, it’s not too bad. Definitely not in my personal top 250 though.

Sorry for getting so heated and talking crap, I’m babysitting my little brother and a bit bored.

Like to hear what you think.
Is Sideways in your top 250?

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Hasta La Vista

[–] dr_remlaw 19 years ago

Aguirre, the Wrath of God is far superior to Fitzcarraldo anyway. Aguirre should DEFINITELY be top 100 (it's my #20, see below).

http://www.ymdb.com/daniel-glassman/l34590_ukuk.html

[–] RovingGambler 19 years ago

No way am I comparing them.

I'm glad you like my quote, it took me hours to come up with. :)

Sideways is in my top 50, but I don't try to be objective. It appealed to me for my own personal reasons, I'm not saying everyone who likes film should like this movie. People at my work make fun of me for liking Sideways, while they go on talking about the newest greatest movies like Dukes of Hazzard and Date Movie.

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You talkin' to me?

[–] Rainer01 19 years ago

Cool, now i know where you're coming from.
I think i misinterpreted your other comment.
Compared with some movies, Sideways isn't bad at all. It just didn't click with me personally.

"newest greatest movies like Dukes of Hazzard and Date Movie"
I know how you feel i'm studying Film & Television and we're doing these small documentary assignments using still images and keyframing. I told this girl in my class that i was doing mine on Stanley Kubrick and she said, "What's that."
And another girl in my group said, "oh I think i've heard of him, but can we do Nicole Ritchie." These are gonna be the next generation of directors making these teen movies with no substance.

thanks for the reply.

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"Perhaps I seek certain utopian things, space for human honour and respect, landscapes not yet offended, planets that do not exist yet, dreamed landscapes. Very few people seek these images today."

haha
can you guess who said this?....

[–] crash_into_me420 19 years ago

i tend to like many of what you refer to as the 'typical Hollywood movies' ... while at the same time being an appreciator of Fitzcarraldo. It's possible to appreciate both

[–] Rainer01 19 years ago

Yeah of course it's possible. i enjoy watching those hollywood movies sometimes aswell i just get of sick of it, that all that the majority of the population is exposed to are these 'typical hollywood movies,' and that i don't think one person in my film and t.v course has seen Fitzcarraldo or knows who Herzog is.(maybe from Grizzly Man). It's even better if you can apreciate movies like Fitzcarraldo and still apreciate the hollywood blockbuster's, it means there's more out there that you want to see.

sorry if i made a harsh generalisation in my last comment. I hope you get what i was trying to say now.

[–] soo_z_g 16 years ago

Funny, but I had to go to Wikipedia to look up Nicole Ritchie to see who she was. Name sounded familiar, but I guess that's why I'm the kind of person who appreciates "Fitzcarraldo." That was a great quote you threw out there!

[–] Rainer01 16 years ago

Haha. Thanks. I first commented on this post 3 years ago. I like your comments on the ending of the film. I just bought Fitzcarraldo on DVD last week. Looking forward to watching it again. You should try it with directors commentary or see My Best Fiend.

If only more people didn't know who Nicole Ritchie was.

[–] deadbunny28 13 years ago

hmm thats funny cus I hate Sideways but like Fitzcarraldo...another note, I also like The Gladiator so there! =p

[–] bishops64 18 years ago

I like this film, but I guess I'm alone in thinking that it's a good film and not a great film. I'll watch it again I guess.

[–] explainmyself 18 years ago

I like this film, but I guess I'm alone in thinking that it's a good film and not a great film.

Nah, you're not alone. I had watched Aguirre before this one, and I was blown away, so maybe it's just that I went in with really high expectations for this one. I liked it, but I wasn't blown away or anything. Though I do so love both of these films in the way that they both transport you to their worlds moreso than with most other films that I've watched. Both of them are so tactile. You kind of feel like you're right there along with Kinski & Co.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] straightstory 18 years ago

Love the film....perhaps not as much as Aguirre Wrath of God,
but it's still magnificent.

Not necessarliy relating to the imdb 250, but I think one of
the problems Fitzcarraldo has is its first act. The first hour
of the three is somewhat of a hump to get over, I feel.

[–] Frengers 18 years ago

I adored Aguirre the Wrath of God, but I found Fitzcarraldo quite hard work. There's no getting around the fact that it's a very long, slow and heavy journey, and while it was intellectually stimulating and visually incredible for much of the time, it didn't have the same deep visceral impact that Aguirre had for me.

I admire Herzog's insane ambition with this film: Fitzcarraldo is staggeringly ambitious, large-scale, big-budget, epic filmmaking even by Herzog's standards. It looks like it was hell to make and like it would have taken forever to make (Burden of Dreams is a good account of what a torturous process it was for Herzog getting this film made). Aesthetically I appreciated a lot of it, and Klaus Kinski gives a typically committed, possessed performance. But at the end of the day, it's not a film I feel I'd want to return to in a hurry.

[–] Camoo 18 years ago

youre gonna have to give it up man.
theres a beaurocratic process at work at the IMDB which does nothing but frustrate true film lovers like ourselves...
Pather Panchali isn't on it either and that killed me.
Its a cruel popularity contest. Just forget it, it's gonne give you high blood pressure if you examine it too much

[–] Kinematico 17 years ago

Fitzcarraldo is Herzog's best movie, according to Werner Herzog himself.

And I'm agree with him. If "Aguirre" is in the Top250, Fitzcarraldo should be there as well.

Anyway that list is just a popularity contest that shouldn't be taken seriously when movies like "Pirates of the Caribbean" or "Shaun of the Dead" are there.

[–] emvan 17 years ago

I believe the presence of a movie in the Top 250 is extremely meaningful. Let's not be art snobs. The list is full of movies of no great artistic ambition that almost everyone loves. I would be very skeptical of anyone who thought The Shawshank Redemption was one of the 100 best or greatest movies of all time, but it is an amazing piece of entertainment that connects with almost everyone, regardless of their taste. That alone is worthy of special recognition.

The absence of a movie from the Top 250 is meaningless. The more artistically ambitious a film is, the more you risk losing some of the audience completely. The list is full of movies that should be ranked much higher but lose standing because a small percentage of viewers regard them as too slow, too confusing, too downbeat, whatever, and there are scores of movies universally regarded as film classics that aren't on the list at all for the same reasons. Aguirre and Fitzcarraldo don't even lead that list: last time I looked, the top 250 omitted La Dolce Vita, the Rules of the Game, Children of Paradise, Tokyo Story, Breathless, Jules et Jim, and L'Avventura.

Prepare your minds for a new scale of physical, scientific values, gentlemen.

[–] 17 years ago

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