He's a serial fucker, happy to be so.
Why does he fall so crazy in love for this married woman?
I didn't see her do anything special, and her looks and personality are average.
So....other than "because it's in the script" why would he kill for her?
It doesn't matter if YOU don't see anything special about her; all the matters is that NED does. It's true, Ned's obsession has to be believable, and I personally think it IS believable although you clearly disagree.
Roger Ebert described Matty's expression, just before Ned breaks down the glass door to get at her, as the calmly expectant look of someone who's just put a coin into a vending machine. But WHY is she so clinical and confident?
It's because she's been playing him all along.
Remember, Matty actually targeted Ned about a year before the film starts, when she learns how he screwed up the Gourson will.
From that point on, she's been stalking him. She knows where he hangs out and where he goes to meet women. It's no accident that she walks past him at that jazz concert, close enough for him to smell her perfume, without giving him so much as a sidelong glance.
She does it because she knows men like him. She's had to deal with men like him since her adolescence. They like getting laid, but they LOVE a challenge. So she appears, draws him in with a little encouragement, then vanishes.
Then, in the Pinehaven bar, she "casually" admits Ned's the first man she's allowed to sit next to her, after a "lot of men" tried.
EVERYTHING she does and says is for a reason, the goal of hooking Ned and reeling him in.
You've gotta love how she describes Edmund as small and weak ... and he turns out be Col. Trautman.
There's even a deleted scene where she suspects Ned's having doubts, so she visits him and starts talking about calling it off, using reverse psychology, while casually undressing for sex. She's very obviously challenging his masculinity, which is why I'm glad they deleted the scene.
Watch it sometime with that in mind, and it's absolutely diabolical how she plays him.
You wrote a great explanation for her character and actions. I'm not sure it's all in the movie, or that it exudes from it. Either you are reading too much into it or I missed some nuances.
What I SAW in the film on the screen is her plotting everything exactly as you described, but then delivering very little in that sense, particularly with charming him or bewitching him. Even more so to such a degree that she could get him to kill for her, that quickly nonetheless.
The only saving grace for her plan and the script itself could be that he is just very stupid and gullible, behind his façade of slick ladies man.
I guess all that IS there. I never find it satisfactory in a story, but stupidly is part of reality. But it is played as if she is so irresistible to any hot blooded man, while in reality this only is true because of how stupid THIS GUY is.
I just saw the film and I have another theory of why Racine killed the husband.
He decided to kill him after that awkward dinner with both of them. Several things happened there.
The husband was also a lawyer, but ended up more successful in life and could afford to eat at that restaurant whenever he wanted. He also took a shot at him saying that honest lawyers don’t make much money. Plus, he went to a better law school. Then he said something a long the lines of doing what is necessary to be successful.
In short, Racine felt demasculated. This guy was what he wanted to be and couldn’t.
So, he wanted to kill him out of spite and to take what was his.
That is the best explaination so far of what we see in the movie.
But I wish the dinner scene or the murder scene highlighted this angle, like showing him angry or ticked off at the dinner, or satisfied right after the murder or something to tell us that it became personal for him.
I wish the dinner scene or the murder scene highlighted this angle, like showing him angry or ticked off at the dinner, or satisfied right after the murder or something to tell us that it became personal for him
Sexual obsession is a very personal thing. It's something that's hard to explain. Not only was she the most exciting women he'd ever met, but was one of the most sultry and sexually confident women he's ever met. Top that off with all the money she'd be worth (that one big score he'd been looking for his entire career). As far as love, I'd think he might have been in love with her as well, but not once did he ever say it. I think it was more obsession than love.
shareThat is all acceptable and would work perfectly, if only we were shown a glimpse of it.
Instead, like I wrote in the op, it is as you wrote only because the script says so. We are TOLD, never shown, that she is all that "most exciting women he'd ever met, but was one of the most sultry and sexually confident women he's ever met." What we actually see is a good but not great looking married woman, who is also quite boring and annoying to boot.
Add to it all her other problems with the husband etc, and the fact that he repeatedly says he does not want the money, and you get this: he is too savvy and getting too much pussy to be THAT smitten and intrigued by her, even less so that he quickly is willing to kill for her.
The movie needed to show her do something outstanding to really blow his mind and set her apart from all his other women. Otherwise it needed him to be naive and gullible and not already overwhelmed with easy sex.
Like I said, sexual obsession is a very personal thing. The movie showed all you're saying it didn't show. It just wasn't what personally would grab your own obsession.
shareAh ok, I get what you mean.
But the movie could have been more explicit on him being uniquely obsessed and give us a reason for that. I understand that being obsessed is somewhat unreasonable, but we deserved a better exposition of his thought process.
What we actually see is: a good looking superficial guy, who can get any girl he wants and enjoys being a serial fucker + an average looking and behaving woman with a TON of problems and hangups and no really evident outstanding quality = an obsession so strong that the guy suddenly become so serious that he offers to kill her husband, for no apparent reason other than he's suicidal or bored with life out of jail.
Your angle works, but again, the way it's shot we have to accept it as a closed box.
It would a been a stronger movie if we had some insight on HIS mind and what clicked in it, to make us understand better so we could participate along with his obsession.
Well there was some deleted sexual scenes that they left out for some reason. One where they're fooling around in the back of her car and one where she's roleplaying being a stewardess with stockings and garter belt on. And she flat out tells him she's got him figured and that he thinks with his cock. He was really into it and the scene ends with him going down on her. So they were very adventurous with their sex. You probably wished they had showed more explicit sex scenes and those extra scenes probably would've convinced you more about what he saw in her. But they still didn't show any explicit sex though. That's what's missing for you. Back then they said the movie was very explicit, but that's only because of the nudity really. The only actual sex they showed is when she was getting it from behind for a few seconds and it still really didn't show much at all. As far as her looks, she was smoking hot during that time period. Natural looking beauty was what was attractive back then before the addiction to cosmetic procedures and social media whores living in the gym and documenting it on a daily basis and all the clown makeup these social media porno hoes wear now. Beauty standards have changed. Sultry, sophisticated, classy, was more relevant then. And Ned never had that pedigree of woman before. He was used to lower class females like waitresses, cashier's, nurses, and cops etc, those types. Ned hit the jackpot with Matty. Well, he thought he did. Poor Ned. Ya kinda gotta feel bad for him even though he did commit one of the worst crimes there is.
shareYes, more sex and more explicit and kinky would be a good start for convincing us she is taking him to another level.
Those two deleted scenes sound like a great help in that direction. I guess Kasdan prefered to focus on the homicide and legal matters and believed we saw enough sex already to be on board with his obsession. Rookie mistake.
Her telling he thinks with his cock is also helpful. That or some other hints at his motivation is what I miss here, like "your cock is gonna be happier than it could ever imagine" or "I'm gonna take you to places you didn't even know existed". Something to clearly set her apart.
She is good looking but his other conquests are on her level. I kinda wish they picked uglier women for him, again so she would stand out as something extra for him.
I think you are correct about the class angle: her being sofisticated and of a rich background seems very important for those guys. I always hated how Ned treats the waitress with his friend, as if she is lower because of her job: that is preposterous and off the point, but it is telling of his logic and preference. Well, he is clearly an imbecile, this only cements that.
I find women with tits more attractive; however, I can see how, other than being flat-chested, she is sexually charismatic, and it's plausible he could fall for her.
shareI prefer big tits. That does not mean a flat woman cannot be awesome in bed anyway. So that is not my problem with this movie.
What it lacks is to show us how great she is, or what makes her special.
Enough to understand why a guy like Ned would kill for her.
I'm sure this has been expressed somewhere on this long thread, but different people are fascinated by different things. It's impossible to predict what kind of woman will make a guy go gaga (and of course it's more than just physical attraction). Just because, say, Kate Beckinsale drives one man crazy with desire, it's not necessarily so for the next guy. A woman I find meh will drive some other guy crazy with desire.
shareI am sure we can all agree on what you wrote.
But any kind of healthy attraction would never justify killing for the object of such attraction, with no real reason (Ned had no trouble to be with her in spite of her always absent husband) nor motive (he does want no money, the husband is not a threat, nothing ).
To top this off, the movie does not show her in a scene that really sets her apart from the many many many other women he was with. On the contrary she is often demanding, morose and annoying. Really to kill for...
I feel that way about a lot of lead actresses/female characters that we are meant to believe are super hot etc.
I guess it brings up the argument, are we meant to be seeing the character/actress through our eyes or the main male character/actor who seems to be obsessed with her?
I think Kathleen Turner was attractive back then but too thin to play a Neo Noir/Seductress type. Maybe just my tastes but I see those types of women as being more curvy and leggy. Kathleen is just really thin.
Also it's important to note that some men just see anything female as the most amazing thing ever.
I never saw that movie.
And I'm a woman.
But I saw this old movie and she was kick ass cool and beautiful.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5ebv3i_9Ltc
You're forgetting that Matty was going to inherit a ton of money after they killed her husband. Surely that elevated Matty beyond the usual looker in his mind. Of course, Ned thought they were going to get just half of his estate. Matty had other plans.
shareNo, Ned specifically says that he does not care about the money and he wants none of it.
So, that would be a good reason to make Matty more alluring but in this case it actually makes him even more crazy (he is willing to kill for her and is not even interest to get his share of the money for such favor).
No, Ned specifically says that he does not care about the money and he wants none of it.