These boards are a joke.


I like how these boards, rather than a place for people to meet and seriously discuss the films, have become a place where reprobates come to regurgitate one-liners from comedy writers as if it were their original thought.

I love MST3K. I have most episodes on tape. But if you want to spit out heckels from the show then do so on the MST3K page. Don't waste everyone else's time. I love the Touch Of Satan episode of MST, but I also own a vhs original copy of the actual movie 'The Touch of Satan', not the edited and censored version that made it to the comedy show's broadcast. While there are some inherent problems in the film, pacing being one of them, I actually enjoy the movie itself and have gone back to it several times.

So "this film is fun for no one' isn't really an apt statement. As a matter of fact coming on these boards and saying such and such is completely irredeemable, is a pointless gesture because it's all in the eye of the beholder.

This is where you reply angrily to tell me how you can be unoriginal if you want to and berate me for daring to assume we could be entertained by what a movie has to offer rather than wasting our time trying to come up with the next one-liner to cut it down.

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Rowsdower!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Well said.

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I wish I could 'LIKE' this post!! ;^)

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Mitchell!

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It's funny, Josh, I have to agree with you -- at least on some fronts.

Whether or not the MST3K threads are necessary isn't something I'm going to touch on, but I will give you that this movie really isn't the stinker that some people make it out to be. SPOILER: There's a fair bit of symmetry in the story telling: Melissa saving Lucindia from the fire, then taking her life by fire; Jodie being damned the same way Melissa is. And I liked the allusion to Lovecraft, too. It wasn't a dumb film and, by and large, the actors did fairly good jobs with what they were given.

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Pretty much in absolute agreement with what you said. Though I've only seen the MST3K version of this, this movie turned out to be a legitimate treat for me. I am now in the process of trying to acquire a dvd/vhs of this as I enjoyed the actual movie so much.

That is all.

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Oh quit bitching and laugh.

The movie was one of the better ones (I actually like Girl in Gold Boots unMSTied too) with a good plot and would be a good remake if they had a bigger budget and bigger names. My favorite part was the end where Jodie and Melissa made love and once she found love she began to age and die, and Jodie gave his soul against her will to save her. That's true love, even if it's devil love!

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I very much agree with you. Though I love MST3K dearly, The Touch of Satan isn't a bad movie by any means. I would definitely consider it to be one of the better films ever featured on the show. Seriously folks this is the same show that brought us Monster A Go-Go, Attack of the (The) Eye Creatures, Sandy Frank's flicks, Manos, Eegah, Ed Wood movies, Coleman Francis' trainwrecks, The Creeping Terror, Village of the Giants, Invasion of the Neptune Men, Hobgoblins...

let's not forget what AWFUL really is!

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Oh, the movie's fine and the acting, especially by the male lead, was very good, I thought. I wondered why he didn't become more well-known. But it did make for a very funny episode on MST3K, as well. It's pretty well-known that, although MST3K did do some horrible movies, they did quite a few that had other merits. I always enjoyed the episodes with better movies more than those with really awful movies.

Your criticism of folks who come to discuss the mst3k version and throw lines back and forth is a bit silly - why bother with that, when a simple "let's discuss the non-mst3k version" would have sufficed? However, it is not being unoriginal; would you criticize a group discussing their favorite lines from Shakespeare? It is sharing a laugh with others who enjoyed the episode as well and serves as an inside joke. Perhaps you need to figure out where your fish lives and relax a bit.

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Point well-taken and overdue. The real issue here is that a generation or two of would-be film fans/buffs have been indoctrinated into the Bad is Good, rush to the bottom mentality -largely popularized by the pernicious books by the Medved Bros.: Golden Turkey Awards. There has always been in entertainment the notion of "camp" and of course camp followers, now relegated to the Gay Community but always there. At my local theater in Chelsea, they show perfectly good older movies one night a week with a Drag Queen host, leading the audience in catcalls trashing the movie. I feel cheated because some of these movies are well worth attending (if the audience would keep the noise down, that is): they had the Pam Grier classic Foxy Brown and Irwin Allen's The Poseidon Adventure recently. Both have obvious camp content, but are fine movies in their own right. Making fun of movies rather than letting them stand (or fall) on the merits is a fool's mission. {Here's a telling personal anecdote: at the NYC press screening for one of Frank Sinatra's latterday films THE FIRST DEADLY SIN (nearly 30 years ago) I remember having to actually attempt to shush Harry Shearer, because the popular satirist, pre-SPINAL TAP, was loudly yelling out sarcastic remarks at every scene, in anticipation of the invention of such shows as Mystery Science -but he wasn't letting any of us critics in attendance watch the film.}

John Waters is probably the most famous current "camp" filmmaker -he loves camp from the '30s and '40s, and created his own version of it over the past 40 years. That is all well & good, but what I find alarming is the trend, amplified on a website like IMDb -even sporting a Bottom 100 category to throw gasolene on the flames - to actively seek out the WORST. Thousands of young fans are wasting their time, and I'm talking about tens of thousands of hours in front of the DVD screen, watching what they have been told is disreputable entertainment, the lousier the better. It might be softcore sex films (take your pick from Column A reading Joe D'Amato and Jess Franco or column B featuring Joe Sarno and the Something Weird brigade) or horror films (same guys plus the hundreds of no-budget videomakers and their favorite low-rent scream queens). But they are missing the point.

We older film buffs (and I admit to plenty of mileage) were ALWAYS attracted to unusual/exotic/B movies. I mean real Bs -the second half of a double bill, analogous to the B-side on a 45rpm single, not the way the term is misused today to mean simply cheapjack, standalone indie movies. But the difference is, and it is a MAJOR distinction, that film buffs from the '30s through '70s (PRE-VHS, PRE-BETA, PRE-DVD, PRE-BLU-RAY) paid our dues. We traveled to remote or disreputable cinemas to catch rare films. We sifted through miles of celluloid in search of a GREAT, UNSUNG movie, not to find the worst. The "worst" is a term thrown around endlessly on IMDb by ignorant louts who haven't even given the subject any serious thought (I'll get back to that issue in a minute).

There was plenty of junk to watch, but a brilliant B movie (think DETOUR or GUN CRAZY if you want a famous one) was always lurking there to be discovered and discussed. I don't recall wasting much of my time arguing the demerits of crap or making fun of it the way Ghoulardi or other chiller theater horror hosts used to do, or parasitically making one's own programming out of it as MST3K did.

Back to THE WORST. What IMDb youngsters keep saying has "got to be the worst film ever made", over and over, is simply a mindless recognition of mediocrity. Yes Virginia, there are several 100,000 mediocre feature films out there, many of them lost. To put things in perspective, as a professional film critic I used to see many, many films that never got released, barely made it out of the lab, or were accorded just a single "film festival" screening, and never shown again. The late Richard Schwarz, owner of the Thalia Theater on the Upper Westside, used to show unreleased, random films late night on Fridays and I saw plenty of rarities in that fashion. These films are not even listed at all on IMDb, since unlike today, when anything & everything gets a posting, these were made before IMDb was invented in 1990. The unreleased films weren't necessarily terrible movies, but were often just made-on-spec (no distributor) fledgling efforts, mediocre in the sense of repeating what we've seen over and over again before, but not as good as their forerunners. So no one bought them and no one ever distributed them. A few (THE MOVING FINGER is an example) will emerge decades later thanks to Something Weird, but most are just lost films.

I've done some sampling recently, but if you took the time to actually sift through IMDb on titles produced from 1995 to date you will find THOUSANDS of English-language films that similarly never got released, never found a distributor, only played publicly at the usual herd of hard-up film festivals or had the most token of brief video exposure. This is because the economic bubbles of recent years have encouraged the production of tens of thousands of indie films, few of which rise to the surface and get a decent exposure to audiences.

When the worst is really addressed you have to think about the hundreds of thousands of hardcore porn titles (or UNTITLED), short and feature-length, a mountain of junk that has been cranked out worldwide dating back to early 20th Century stag films and now since 1969 an impossible to catalogue roster of XXX garbage made both professionally and more recently by amateurs, and then recycled with an endless array of compilations. The IMDb lists 47,000 titles in the Adult category, just scratching the surface. To paraphrase sci-fi author Theodore Sturgeon, 99% of this is crud, though in the porn world I daresay that 99.999% of hardcore porn is crud. Amongst these 200,000 or so titles you will find perhaps 50,000 candidates for the WORST movie (or video) ever made, to which conventional films, in the unblocked section of IMDb's roster, are ALL superior. (Just look at the porn fans' comments on IMDb -they are constantly lamenting the "lack of a plot" in today's porn, and those 50,000 I'm alluding to are of the all-sex, plotless variety.) That's why it is so nonsensical to pretend that this or that mediocre Larry Buchanan or Ed Wood film is the worst or any sort of discovery. It's a fool's errand and impossible quest. And remember, the term "most mediocre" is an oxymoron -it's like saying "most moderate" in a political or any other sense.

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Geez, Poop Deck Pappy getting all upset.

What's the Spanish for drunken bum?

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[deleted]

I don't mind the threads because it spreads the word to the unconverted about MST3K. I do agree that it should be limited to one subject within each of the films that were featured on the show. It does tend to infect all of the topics within a films boards and makes it tough to have any sort of discussion that doesn't involve Mike and the 'bots.


"Now we are carrying so much hate and jade that we're not much better than you"

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[deleted]

I live in England and nobody that I know has any idea that MST3K exists so comming on here and reading peoples favourite riffs always brings a smile to my face because of the mutual recognition of a certain type of humour that it seems only a small percentage of the world has and reading that I am not the only person who was laughing uncontrollably at "There's been a walnut uprising"
And afterall how many of these movies would the vast majority of us have seen and gained a strange apreciation for if not for MST3K? so is a little forum drifting due to people having a little fun too high a price fans of the original movies to pay? Although I take the point that there is an MST3K page for people to do this but since these forums are movie specific you have to expect to here fom people who have seen the mst version and want to share.

By the way "This is where the fish lives" and "I sure hope he said peanuts"

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ZAH!!!

"IF THE DEVIL HAD A NAME, IT WOULD BE CHUCK FINLEY!!"

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And afterall how many of these movies would the vast majority of us have seen and gained a strange apreciation for if not for MST3K? so is a little forum drifting due to people having a little fun too high a price fans of the original movies to pay?


I think that's absolutely true (he replied four years after the comment was made!) but I also have a lot of sympathy for the OP. I sense what bothers him the most is that people seem to think that the rote repeating of funny jibes about a movie by assorted nudniks equals comic gold years or decades after they were broadcast.

Reminds me of people who think they're being super witty by repeating lines from Monty Python -- which was brilliantly lampooned on The Office (the UK version I mean).

In a similar vein, look at this movie's rating. The reason for the incredibly low rating obvious. There are plenty of movies much MUCH worse than TTOS that have higher ratings, because nudniks were not told to think those other films were bad.

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So I know that MST edits their movies for time and content, but I sometimes do wonder about movies like this. Since you've actually seen the whole movie: Who are Luther and Molly Strickland? Are they just some random couple that Melissa stumbled upon and for some reason she lives with them? They obviously know that Lucinda is homicidal, but don't seem to really care (extreme annoyance is generally the feeling I get from them).

"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"

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There is no devil...I learned that in Community College.

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And it makes you wonder why Leonard Bernstein made this weird appearance as Herbert von Karajan playing Luther Strickland...



--
Grammar:
The difference between knowing your sh**
and knowing you're sh**.

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I love MST3K, but I hate a lot of its fanbase. Too many of them are nerdy sheep and assume everything's bad just because MST3K riffed on it. They let MST3K do their thinking for them.

Touch of Satan (and also Squirm) aren't actually bad movies in a lot of ways. I don't care if the 'bots make fun of ANYTHING (I always wanted 'em to take on _Passion of the Christ_, honestly - that's actually an incredibly mockable movie), but conforming to the bots just 'cuz they're they're the substitute-friends that make ya feel like you're not watching TV alone is just kinda sad.

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Lucinda startled me when she went after the deputy, actually.

I still felt sorry for her, at the end. She seemed written in until Melissa found someone better.



http://www.cgonzales.net & http://www.drxcreatures.com

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Ah, don't be so negative about the MST3K fanbase.

If I were a director I would GLADLY PAY MONEY to have the MST3K gang mock my movie.

Why?

EXPOSURE. HEAVY REPEAT EXPOSURE. PRESERVATION LONGEVITY.
GOOD EMOTIONAL ASSOCIATION WITH THE MOVIE.

Let's go down the list I just made.

EXPOSURE:
MST3K made movies fun & accessible to a wider audience than the original release. Watching the movie alone (in a un-MSTied format means that all emotional reactions are just to the movie itself) can be an audience rejection point.

HEAVY REPEAT EXPOSURE:
A fun MSTied movie is going to be watched again, picked apart on a subconscious level, characters dissected for deeper motivations, the motivations of the director heavily analyzed. Imagine having your movie regularly examined intensely as part of a film studies or film school training classwork. That is the Heavy Repeat Exposure that William Shakespeare got and now he's a deep lasting part of human culture, accepted without question as genius despite better works from that original era.

PRESERVATION LONGEVITY:
If you like the MST3K treatment of a movie, then there is a high probability that the fun-poked movie (no matter how awful) will have many thousands of interested people seeking regular high-quality re-releases though the unMSTied version of the movie had a very tiny audience or was on the verge of being forgotten by the world entirely.

GOOD EMOTIONAL ASSOCIATION WITH THE MOVIE:
Do you know how many of the movies that got the MST3K treatment, were in their original release, somewhat repulsive?
"ROCKET ATTACK USA" as an example. Original movie form was dull, awkward, slow, painful. The MST3K treatment version is now funnier and not nearly as painful. Net result, a GOOD EMOTIONAL ASSOCIATION with a many decades old nearly-null-audience-demand movie. If included with a pack of other old movies, the original unmocked "ROCKET ATTACK USA" would actually be a selling point for that old movie collection after the MST3K treatment. Having a positive audience reaction for that old movie as a result of MST3K is something worth paying money for.

The net result, any way you want to slice the numbers is that Mystery Science Theater 3000 results in INCREASED SALES for movies that no longer any demand at all with a clear positive Positive Emotional Association with that movie. MST3K is a PLUS VALUE SALES POINT. The creators of these MST3K mocked movies should actually be subsidizing the MST3K DVD releases to ensure continuing sales of their product in the same way that a farmer advertises the sale of their products as part of an agricultural positive emotional association sales campaign.

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If I were a director I would GLADLY PAY MONEY to have the MST3K gang mock my movie.

On one of the MST3K DVDs (I think it's Parts: The Clonus Horror), there's an extra where the director thanks the show for lifting his movie from obscurity and giving it a whole new fanbase.

Yeah, MST fans can be annoying, but without the show many of these movies would have sunk into oblivion by now. And some MST viewers graduate to the next stage of annoying, which is where they feign a fashionable appreciation for the unriffed originals. "I enjoy this movie which everyone else thinks is dross" has become a sort of status symbol on these boards.

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