What are the odds of one of his own people pulling the trigger?
Whether it's someone who works for him or a Russian citizen, what are the odds that someone takes him out?
shareWhether it's someone who works for him or a Russian citizen, what are the odds that someone takes him out?
shareA Russian civilian? No way. Inside job, by more than one actor, if anything. I'm sure he's paranoid already. There might be big money behind someone else taking over.
shareDo you think it won't be a civilian because it would be difficult to do or another reason?
shareNearly impossible to get to him. The rumors are that he's isolated already, with Covid fears, or at least that's the rationale given. There'd have to be an internal plot with an endorsement from a powerful party. There are fortunes on the line right now.
shareSince the Russians are bombing Ukranian nuclear power plants, and the biggest one is on fire, and that Russia will be thoroughly irradiated if it blows... I wouldn't say it's impossible that a group of powerful people could have him taken out. Or "taken ill".
Of course, if that happens, they won't give the Ukraine back to the Ukranians or anything.
I was referring to a civilian's chances. As I said, I agree that other forces could, just not a regular citizen.
shareAgreed. Putin isn't letting getting within smelling distance of any regular people, except perhaps a few maids or hookers.
We shall have to pin our hopes on those "other sources".
Probably 50/50. Which would not be easy to live with if you're Putin. lol...
However, he's done similar things before and gotten away with it, so the Russian people and their leaders might not care about it that much. I think for the most part, Putin is somewhat popular among the people, he is well liked by most.
But after this move, who knows, they've got a lot going against them. World opinion is heavily in Ukraine's favor. Putin and his PR team have done a rather shitty job in this conflict. Also, word is that a lot of people in Russia don't even know they're at war right now. Pretty crazy stuff...
I think this time is different. Even his hardcore supporters would want to avoid going to war. Did you see the vote yesterday by the United Nations? 141 nations voted to condemn Russia, 35 decided to abstain and 5 taking Russia's side (one of which is Russia). They know that if they go to war, they'll lose with that many counties against them.
https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2022/03/whatsapp_image_2022-03-02_at_10.58.09_am__1_.jpeg
Yep, I saw that. It's an uphill battle for Putin right now, no doubt about it. But I do wonder why this is so much different than previous times he's pulled this kind of thing.
I mean, why is world opinion so skewed this time? I doubt most people even know about the other invasions he's done but now, everyone knows about this.
Ukraine is the second largest country in Europe (after Russia itself), and he's not just taking a bit of it, he's swallowing it whole. Unlike Chechnya, Georgia, or even Crimea, there is not a credible argument that Russia was attacked in any way. How is this NOT fundamentally different than his past actions?
shareHopefully, a Russian Captain or Colonel will kill Putin.
shareMaybe because we always feared he would do this. Now that he's done it, we're fearing the worst.
shareDoubt it.
shareHe's basically Hitler at this point. So the whole "Valkyrie" thing of an inner attempt to take him out is possible.
The key is that the Free World is now going after the money and the stuff. Like everything in the world, everything revolves around money and material possessions. So nothing happens until that is threatened. Now that the oligarchs could lose their money and stuff, things could get real for Putin. They got billions per person. More than enough to take Putin out if they choose to.
That's exactly the movie I was picturing.
shareFrom what I read on the internet (highly reliable, I know), he has too many safeguards built in.
share
Imminently? Low. For one thing, he's difficult to get to. A regular Russian citizen has no chance.
It seems clear that his military generals and inner circle have major concerns. But they're strategic/tactical concerns. They're not ideological differences. Russia's state interests and national security concerns would be exactly the same under any political leader and any system of government. And those folk have benefited enormously under this regime.
Even if you could put a bullet in Putin's head tomorrow morning and magically install a functioning liberal democracy by the afternoon, Russia's underlying attitude towards Ukraine wouldn't change too much. It hasn't in more than five hundred years.
Are the military leadership or the oligarchs as fanatically fond of Ivan Ilyin's philosophical ideas as Putin seems to be? Probably not. But they are counter-revolutionaries. They don't want to change the system of government. They don't want a democratic movement. They don't want the communists back. They've benefited enormously from the status quo, thank you very much.
So -- because it's strategic rather than ideological -- these folk have to do the old cost/benefit analysis. They have to weigh up the potential consequences of removing Putin: political instability inside Russia itself with a potential for civil war. They don't want that. They don't want to find themselves out of power too. And that's the perennial risk with these kinds of personality cult governments: no succession plan.
Over time, if it gets really bad... sure, they may find they have no option. But they'd have to do it in a way that didn't look outwardly chaotic. I suspect his misadventure has speeded up the moment he'll have to hand over the reins rather than the moment he'll get assassinated.
And after he's gone: only the tone and strategy will change, not the realpolitik. And possibly the Ivan Ilyin obsession will be squeezed-out or marginalised.
I agree, I don't think Russia's opinion of Ukraine would change much, but I don't think they would want to go to war with them. There are only 4 other countries that are taking their side and WWIII would end them.
shareAye. I'm working on the assumption that Putin hasn't actually gone clinically insane and that the nuclear threat stuff is just old-fashioned tinpot dictator rhetoric.
But, of course, if he has gone mad (and the folk around him will know that better than we do) and WWIII becomes a distinct possibility, then... yeah, all bets are off with the whole assassination thing. Bullet in the brain, 'Sorry about that everyone. Let's negotiate for a neutral Ukraine...'
Also, if he is psychologically unstable, I wouldn't be surprised if the nuclear boys and girls have already been advised to ignore direct orders from the president on such matters (like the US did with Nixon towards the end.)
I know Russia has this weird commitment to a Tsarist structure, but I find it difficult to believe they don't have contingencies in place for when a Tsar goes mad and starts acting against the state's own interests (y'know, such as its continued existence.)
But what do I know? I didn't think he'd invade. *Shrug*
I don't think he's insane. He is completely aware and he is unapologetically a dictator. Apparently he's consistently had a 99% approval rating, which obviously scream corruption. But it also tells me that he's aware his views are not favourable by most that he is willing to sweep his corruption under the rug.
shareYeah. I doubt he's gone insane too. I think he's made a catastrophic strategic blunder, and he'll pay the price for that both externally and internally. But my suspicion is they'll internally negotiate him out of power once they have a succession plan rather than kill him and risk chaos inside Russia. And I think that could take a few years.
But equally, I wouldn't be shocked if I'm proved ridiculously wrong. Because -- as you indicate with the 99% approval rating screaming obvious corruption -- none of us can actually know the true picture, the real dynamics inside the state or the government.
Presumably, western intelligence agencies have a better idea about all that. But they're not going to tell us at this moment in time. So we're guessing.