Do 100% perfect, completely right, thoroughly convincing and universally pleasing to boot arguments exist? - General Discussion Discussion

[–] chilone (18030) 2 years ago

I don't think so. You can please some of the people, some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

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[–] TheMan18 (13110) 2 years ago

And you can't CONVINCE all people all the time EITHER, correct? As in - of certain facts and matters?

P.S. Even in downright serious issues, there are those that personally bound to disagree. That doesn't necessarily make them stupid and worthless, correct, but maybe in need of a discussion, right? Flawed people have a right to peaceful existence too. Also, must we always interfere? And what if by law we aren't allowed but morally, encouraged, yes?

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[–] OnanTheBarbarian (12452) 2 years ago

A smart man can make a convincing argument for any position, whether he believes it or not. It's called Sophism.

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[–] TheMan18 (13110) 2 years ago

True, but it will probably be at best 80% correct, right?

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[–] OnanTheBarbarian (12452) 2 years ago

For example, one could say on the war in Ukraine that Ukraine is right or Russia is right and make a strong 100% argument wither way.

Truth is subjective and there's always two sides to a story.

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[–] TheMan18 (13110) 2 years ago

I suppose so, there could be many other examples.

I would imagine, such absolute truths that convince most of us rational folks 100% may not exist, but in many cases, there is perhaps at least a 70 percent chance of convincing and I suppose Occam Razor would say yeah that's the way to go.

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[–] OnanTheBarbarian (12452) 2 years ago

What is the best example of Occam's razor?

Occam's razor may be useful in very specific scientific settings. For example, doctors use a version of it—“when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras”—to ensure they go for the simplest diagnosis to explain their patient's symptoms.

That's true if you're in the U.S. But if you're in central Africa, it would be zebras.

But yeah, start with the simplest solution.

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[–] Kimmie (353) 2 years ago

How do you imagine grading the correctness of an argument?

I imagine it as whether the logical form of the argument is valid, slippery slope is a formal fallacy, yet people proudly proclaim actions are slippery slopes seemingly unaware that they are making fallacious arguments

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[–] Kimmie (353) 2 years ago

Just because you sit in the cave and cannot see beyond the shadows the walls does not make the position any more or less true, I find it odd that the word"solphhism "seems like a direct attack on ancient Greek philosophers

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[–] OnanTheBarbarian (12452) 2 years ago

Plato's Cave analogy. Excellent. But we can only work with shadows here. Everything is an illusion to begin with.

I think "sophism" is a legit term and applies directly to the OP's statement. Many of the Greek philosophers played theoretical word games.

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[–] Kimmie (353) 2 years ago

I know it is a legit term, but the problem is that so called "word games" are part of a greater argument Plato was using the cave to further a completely different argument

Getting people to let go of their predispositions and accept that absolute truths do not exist is needed at points. While people like to believe such absolute truths exist Or even that moral relativism isn't a thing

So called word games are part of argumentation, showing that the form of an argument is flawed by turning it against a person is one such word game

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[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

1 + 1 = 2.

No argument is possible.

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[–] OnanTheBarbarian (12452) 2 years ago

Maybe in an alternate universe. 🤣

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[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

Fixed it.

Heh.

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 2 years ago

Still wrong! 1 + 1 = 11

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[–] TexasJack (12516) 2 years ago

Wrong! 2 + 1 = 21

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 2 years ago

It's true when the datatypes are strings.

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[–] Kimmie (353) 2 years ago

Lol Javascript and mutable datatypes

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[–] actionkamen (23176) 2 years ago

Debugging worst nightmare.

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[–] TheMan18 (13110) 2 years ago

In my life, at least when it comes to certain matters, I often have no choice but to agree or at least pretend to UNDERSTAND, and also - refrain myself from asking too many questions and getting others to challenge or indulge me. And not look for optimism too much in pessimistic matters.

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[–] Otter (24464) 2 years ago

When the hell did you ever refrain from asking too many questions!

Seriously, dude.

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[–] Kimmie (353) 2 years ago

Yes, but they take too much effort to find online check out some Plato or Aristotle

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