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avortac4's Replies
Besides your point, I think way _MORE_ nonsensical and unfeasible part is ED-209.
- Why would they install it with LIVE AMMO
- Why wouldn't they test it BETTER THAN THAT
- Why would they make it GROWL
- Why would it be BIPEDAL and CLUMSY
- Why wouldn't they make it able to use STAIRS? (It's so easily conquered by stairs, it's insane)
- Why wouldn't it fire a warning shot first?
- Why would they give a ROBOT agency to KILL human beings?? (Every kill should AT LEAST be confirmed first by an actual human being before the robot is allowed to do it)
- Why would the glitch even happen, can't the robot scan the 'threat' again first, BEFORE SHOOTING??
- Robocop can be 'shut down' by directive 4 - why doesn't ED-209 have similar kill-switch or directive that it can't even threaten or point its guns (loaded with LIVE AMMO FOR SOME REASON!!) at OCP staff..??
None of it makes any sense, that kind of demonstration would never happen in real life - besides, they would never bring that huge, big, clumsy robot high up to that building, they would SHOW THE BOSS A VIDEO OF A PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING ROBOT instead of letting a realtime demonstration ruin everything if ANYTHING goes wrong (even something much smaller)...
But sure, talk about the brain-in-a-jar not making sense, when there are much bigger nonsensical things about this cartoon movie.
I don't think this movie deserves quite this much thought, it's just a silly sci-fi romp about a misandristic robot, an unrealistic premise in any case.
You make a bit of a good point, but that's always the problem with these 'human becomes a robot beccause someone puts brain into a metal body'-premises. It would NEVER work in real life, there's a reason why you can't perform a 'head transplant' (well, multiple reasons), and why 'brain in a jar' is just a silly, old, idiotic sci-fi-premise and will never be anything more.
You are NOT your brain. That's the first gamestopper right there.
In any case, there's another similar story in the comic book world called 'Deathlok'. The first, four-issue special told the origin story, and there was the same 'memory-wiping' attempt as well, but the point there was that the brain was supposed to be used "only for STORAGE" (which makes NO sense, because brain is not a hard drive, so trying to save DATA into an organic, rotting brain, would be SO convoluted and difficult, it would just be easier and more feasible to just invent a larger-capacity hard drive - also, what the heck does a robot like that need so much storage for anyway? It can just stream the videos instead of saving them in the body, as it DOES in the comic anyway).
There are always stupidities and problems, when you try to 'define humanity in a ridiculous way', like 'a brain is a human'. Well, it's not.
You also can't really 'wipe someone's memory' by any kind of computer or digital methods, or install some directives you have to obey - of course the robotic BODY can shut down, but if you are alive in it, you will either die when it shuts down, or you continue being conscious, there's no reason (or method) why you would 'shut down' as well.
Also, it's kinda weird in this movie that the robotic body does _NOT_ shut down, although directive 4 is supposed to shut it down. Why doesn't it? The only real reason: because the movie needs to continue happening.
The story is unrealistic and crazy, but this movie DOES point out a few truths that other movies are afraid to even talk about.
How many movies DARE question the necessity of women in men's lives? This is what enraged feminists and all the misandristic matriarchy-supporters and fanboys here as well, to write comments against this movie.
It's a pretty ugly and depressing movie, but it DOES underline men's misery quite realistically, it does show corporate insanity quite realistically, and it dares ask the question whether 'another woman' is the solution men need... for THIS, I have to give this movie some kudos.
An EVIL movie would never do that, it would just go alone with the feminist narrative, where men are bad and toxic, and women are good and angelic. This movie shows that there's a lot of desperation when you put men into this kind of oppressive misery, and that the desperation can explode in corporations' and womens' faces.
But sure, look at the fight scenes and call it a 'toxic masculinity' - EXACTLY the hypocritical behaviour this movie is trying to educate people about.. talk about WOOSH!
Bombarding the men with depressing lies, like 'You are not special', 'You are not a snowflake', which is clearly wrong. Everone IS unique and special, and that does NOT mean that 'no one is', because i'ts not a competition, it's a collaboration (every atom in the Universe is unique).
Of course these days saying 'you are not a snowflake' can be seen as a compliment, but that's besides the point.
I think this movie actually SHOWS how the world works, even if it's through a crazy story of an insane individual.
It shows how easily people are duped into all kinds of cults and ideals, just because it SEEMS a solution to the ever-pervasive, omnipresent corporate culturism (heck, after a renovation, my electric box must have the same logo printed about 45 times, as if 1 wasn't enough! Every damn switch HAS to have that logo above it.. if this isn't insane, I don't know what is) and all the misandry it depresses and stomps men with.
Women have freedoms men don't, but if you call it inequality, the floodgates of shaming language open, and you are a wimp, loser, and all those things that mean 'you can't get laid', etc.
This movie shows how corporations push men to the edge, and then act surprised, when men explode. It shows men finding an avenue to express their misery and desperation, and how powers-that-be use that to send men to murder each other in unnecessary wars to faraway places, except that in this movie, Tyler becomes that power, and the wars happen right in the city.
The idea of 'equalizing debt' is a stupid one, and a very 'enabling' - I mean, you take away consequences, you take away people's responsibility, so now they would be free to make more debt. They wouldn't learn without consquences.
If you are stupid enough to be deep in debt, it's YOUR FAULT, but this movie takes this fault away, so now you didn't learn anything because there were no consequences. Damn enablers.
..so there's some philosophy to discuss (albeit superficial kitchen-variety), and the big topics of 'materialism, consumerism, corporatism and advertisement' are good to shove to people's faces, because otherwise, they clearly wouldn't even understand what's going on and what they're doing in their daily lives (not that they do anyway though).
The METHODS this movie presents, and the IDENTITY this movie tries to show as a good one, are clearly wrong, though. These people are miserable, downtrodden by this crazy, misandristic world, told that you can't talk or complain about it, because you have genitalia of type A, so they flock to ANY kind of 'solution' they can find, even if it means their face gets broken.
However, then they become a cult and TRRRSTs, so that's when it's easy to lose support of them. After all, this part clearly shows that it's their own fault for identifying as 'monkeys that can be launched to space', as Tyler calls them - suddenly they lose all individuality to OBEY RULES - where did we just see this before? Corporate rules bad, cult rules good?
It's exactly because men are LOST in this movie's world (as well as real world) that they can be so easily manipulated and they become so malleable. This movie doesn't show well enough how WOMEN manipulate men, and how women are USED to manipulate men, and how much power women have over men. It doesn't go over the unfairness of women being able to be a camgirl in a cozy room and rake in big bucks, while men have to stand neck-deep in sewage and fix smelly pipes in the winter, and still don't rake in nearly as much money.
Ultimately, it's the men's OWN FAULT that they become what they do in this movie, because they STILL do not have their own identity, their own courage, their own self-determination, but they GIVE THEMSELVES COMPLETELY to Tyler and his crazy cult, Tyler just takes advantage of this crap.
Heck, he even uses actual brainwashing techniques of constantly bombarding depressing lies.
This movie has good and bad parts and points about it.
It's based on a pretty nihilistic book by some atheist, so it's to be expected.
There's an innocent guy who tries his best to conform to the contradictory messages he's being bombarded with, and eventually, he can't take it anymore, but develops schizophrenia (as it used to be called), and 'creates Tyler' to match the individual he'd LIKE to be, if this world didn't scare him into being something completely different.
Now, it's worth pointing out, that actual 'multiple personalities' do not work like shown in the movie, and are pretty much multiple, separate souls using one body, because there's a malfunction in the body's energy systems or something, so the protection is not as it's supposed to be, etc.
There can usually only be one soul that has an attached silver cord, however, so the other bodies are just visitors. Sometimes a 'walk-in' can also be arranged or happen, but it's pretty rare (the original owner cuts its cord, and another soul attaches a new one before the body can shut down).
This movie has evil people, good people, innocent people, depressed people, you name it. It's lying to classify this WHOLE movie as evil, although it DOES have some questionable material, told in questionable way.
I don't like much of the 'tone' of the movie, as it's incredibly BLEAK. This movie seems to worship misery, decadence, dilapitation and ugliness; so much dark, grey, gloomy crap, depressing, grey, badly-lit basements and so on.
I am not sure what all the messages are, for example, why do they punch the crap out of the 'cute car', but leave the 'regular car' alone? Aren't they AGAINST conformism and dull life? So the second someone tries to express themselves in a daily purchase, like a car, and do something slightly out-of-the-dull-ordinary, these guys punish that??
There's a good point about how CORPORATIONS run things, and how people have changed from human beings to OBEDIENT CONSUMERS..
"..the movie is a satire of toxic masculinity,"
Wrong.
That term wasn't even invented back then, and there's nothing TOXIC about the plight of men, however fema-fascists like you want to frame things as.
This movie is showing men's misery and then tells a fictional story about a schizo that tries to DO something about it.
Men don't ACTUALLY act like that, and there's no such thing as 'toxic masculinity'. There are many idiots on this planet, but they're spread to two genders, so if you want to use an accurate term, you should say 'toxicity among people' or something.
Women can be just as, if not more toxic than men can, and not all men are 'masculine' - in fact, ALL men are actually 'human beings', and the masculinity is often FORCE upon them just based on their genitalia - but misandry isn't even recognized as a dictionary word, that's how deep men's misery is in this world.
Is it any wonder if some men act out in a world that constantly tells them they're toxic, just based on their body?
So you assess whether a movie is good or not based on whether some crazy individual acts irrationally about it or not.
...rrrrright. Rational as !@%!#*...
It would be SO easy for the 'memory man' to obey the first two rules of Fight Club..
"Food is a commodity"?
What is this supposed to mean?
Food is essentially 'maintenance requirement for the physical body', as well as 'life energy', if it's healthy.
What people CALL food these days, though, is not really anything I would want to recommend for anyone to eat or drink.
Cola drinks and other 'sodas' are best used for toilet cleaning, not drinking.
In any case, what people call 'food' is basically trash or junk - hence the term, 'junk food'. Then again, SO MUCH of that is also wasted and thrown away, while people starve to death.
I won't even talk about the CRUELTY industry murdering innocent animals just so these half-apes can consume their bloody muscles and then wonder why their veins are clogged and why they die of heart disease so much.
"How come the fight club had no female members?"
Because gender is just a social construct, and there are 98 thousand of them at the same time.
I think that sentiment is wrong.
I mean, masturbation doesn't lead anywhere in long term - it its like a pressure valve, it releases extra pressure so the pipes don't break, so the 'status quo' can continue. Masturbation by itself isn't a force of change, it doesn't make your life better in any substancial way, only in that 'it prevents your pressure mounting to a point where it would make your life worse'.
Self-improvement is why we are all here anyway, paying our karmic debts improves us.
We are better human beings, entities and people after we have paid some of our karmic debts than we were before. Therefore, all human life is self-improvement in one way or another.
If we're talking about just 'Earthly, short-term self-improvement', then even there, Tyler is wrong. Masturbation leads nowhere, it's an endless cycle (well, it of course ends at some point, only to begin anew later) that exists for 'maintenance', not 'advancement' purposes.
Self-improvement can include things like eating healthier, moving away from bad, destructive habits (alcohol drinking, smoking, drugs, greed, selfishness, et cetera) and adopting good habits, rituals and building a better structure for our daily lives so we can function better, have more energy and balance, and have more vitality and possibilities for happiness and joy.
Now, there CAN be a sect or ideology of 'self-improvement', that CAN act as a 'psychological release' that can be compared to masturbation, like buying self-help books and trying to find some 'gimmick' to improve our lives, but that's not ACTUAL self-improvement, so at the very least, Tyler should've used quotes.
In any case, there's a logical fallacy when the original poster is saying something like 'being driven to cling to an ideology (what ideology?), because no one else (besides whom? Themselves? Then you use the term 'no one', you don't need the 'else') was showing IT (undefined word, could point to almost anything, needs clarification - but if it points to 'ideology', then how can the same ideology be something 'they' cling to, JUST because no one is shoving IT down their throats? Shouldn't it be a DIFFERENT ideology that no one is shoving down their throats, or the whole throat-shoving becomes MEANINGLESS, because they are ALREADY CLINGING to it? Makes no sense.)
First of all, 'your tiny brain' and 'the Internet' are two separate, different things.
Secondly, that comment is not particularly complex, it's just written incoherently, doesn't express a legitimate, valid or interesting point, and looks like some kind of regurgitation of someone else's idea, smudged all over with the typical misunderstandings of the feeble mind that tend to frequent these boards.
There should be an actual topic, not a 'beginning of an incoherent sentence that makes no sense', to underline what the point is (not that there really is one).
Let's see if I can simplify and translate this to actual english.
"Cold War ended a long time ago, so life became wonderful and perfect - but according to this movie, these 'guys' (really just one 'guy') still lived in a grey, miserable oppression behind the Iron Curtain.
The cultural and corporate brainwashing from every conceivable source that tries to mold men into obedient work drones and wage slaves shouldn't have been enough to turn two (or actually, one) otherwise happy, normal and well-adjusted people into these depressed, cowardly materialists that blindly obey the corporate message, because clearly they DID have a choice to be a hippy of some kind.
The narrator was expecting someone to SHOVE a 'good ideology' down his throat, because he has no will or mind of his own, so he couldn't have fought the ideological brainwashing by himself, he needed 'someone else' to do it for him before he could rise above materialism and corporate worship.
We can wonder about just how differently they would perceive the current world, where ideologies are even stronger and ARE, in fact, shoved down people's throats, even though they are not the previously discussed GOOD ideologies, they might still contribute to fabrication of a more well-rounded self-image that wouldn't need a materialistic system to self-perpetuate. "
Did I get it right? Did I get close?
"..lived their whole lives in some soulless corporate dystopia."
Otherwise known as "Planet Earth".
We don't even know what kind of bird Woodstock is; he _COULD_ be a turkey!
In any case, I have a bit of a BEEF (um, vegan beef*, of course) with all these 'vege' products trying to mimic flesh consumption and muscle eating.
Why would a vegetarian product have to LOOK and TASTE like someone's muscles?! Why would it have to resemble a murdered bird??!
Having said that, gosh DARNED those products are getting good. I found a new 'vege slices with onion' that were SO realistic in look, texture and taste to what I remember eating decades ago, that I HAD to look at the package multiple times and read the word 'VEGE' carefully multiple times as well very carefully.
They were also ridiculously delicious, and all without the disgusting bits the 'sausage slices' often came with (slimy and icky bits) - but they looked and tasted 'realistic', and in my opinion, better than the original, cruelty-based slices.
They can make 'vege sausage' that tastes so good, but also so realistic, you have to take a double take sometimes.
By the way, you need to learn how to use the Oxford comma - your sentiment may be ethically sound, but it's not grammatically correct. "Happy Thanksgiving, all!" is the correct version. Also, I don't celebrate that particular holiday, as I don't live in that particular country, and there's more planet Earth around that country than there is within that country, more internet users live in other countries, etc..
..but sure, Happy Thanksgiving.
*
https://www.petakids.com/food/delicious-vegan-meat/
P.S. I really hate that it's called 'vegan meat', which couldn't be a bigger oxymoron.. kinda disgusting, when you try to avoid anything to do with what that word means, then they just thoughtlessly SCHLAP it in there, thinking THAT's what vegans want - to mimic the CRUELTY industry's BRUTAL animal products!
But sure, blame those EVIL VEGETARIANS for brainwashing Schultz (I write it with a T, because that's how I remember it) into showing that there might be a tiny problem with how people consume things without thinking. How DARE those evil vegetarians live a healthy, ethical and environmentally sound life! What horrible people to brainwash Schultz into showing people the truth!
I mean, they weren't shocked about animals being TREATED badly, they were shocked and appalled by being TOLD and SHOWN about it.
They didn't want to know, they didn't want to see or hear the animal squeals and screams, they just wanted to buy the 'stuff' from the shelves and go home to consume it.
The Woodstock-scene perfectly depicts people's ATTITUDE and IGNORANCE about this crap; they, as even I did in the past, see the painfully and brutally murdered innocent animals' muscle pieces and strands as 'FOOD MATERIAL' on a store shelf.
They look at tomatoes, eggs, 'meat' the same way. It's all equally "food stuff I can buy", and as it sits neatly packaged on a shelf, there's NO NEED to think about it any further. It's just "food I can grab from a shelf and buy", just like cookies, pineapple, bread or ketchup. It's just "STUFF" in a store, there's NO THOUGHT beyond that, so people don't even think about it any more than Woodstock did.
In THAT sense, it's brilliantly accurate. But this whole thing is so horrifying, because it's so true what happens in the world.
If there was 'human meat' in the store, I would not be ANY more shocked about it than I am about 'cow muscles and bloody pig flesh' on the same shelf. It's equally unethical, except that the cows and pigs were probably treated WAY worse and had more miserable and painful 'life' (if you can call it that) in a damp, cold dungeon with bad, malnourishing 'food' and being treated unfairly and without any value.
I am sure if 'human meat camps' ever become a thing, they're STILL treated better than any 'meat animals' ever have.
"Snoopy explained it to him"
It's weird how Snoopy can't explain anything in the specials / movies, because he can't talk. In the comics, he's not even a dog, he's an antropomorphized demon-people or something, I have no idea what the heck he's supposed to be.
In any case, why is Snoopy not shocked by it? I know dogs are carnivores, but he's always shocked even by some dog pun and dog sayings, but not ACTUALLY systematically industrially murdering all kinds of animals - people even eat bunnies, which Snoopy is a good friend of.
People even eat cats and dogs in Asia, but we're not supposed to know or talk about it, right? Because it's SO wrong to murder a dog and eat its bloody flesh, while it's SO right to do the same to a cow, pig, birds, bunnies, turkeys, frogs, camels, horses, you name it. Right?
Animal casually explaining the cruelty industry to another animal, and only that other animal being shocked about it, is weird and hypocritical in my opinion.
There's SO much hypocrisy going on with this topic anyway - vegetarians are seen as 'evil brainwashers', while those that psychopathically and cruelly murder and consume bloody flesh like demons, are seen as some kind of 'normal people' or even angelic.
However, this is pretty accurate in how people see all this; even I have been guilty of this a long time ago, when I didn't know better.
This information and especially the visuals of what goes on behind the scenes is kept hidden and a deep secret, because if people KNEW just how brutal it is, if people could SEE where their muscle pieces come from and how the animals are treated, many people would quit giving these animal-murderers money (just watch 'Meet Your Meat'). In fact, there WAS a campaign that showed the brutality of slaugherhouses and animals being murdered in little TV screens in grocery stores.
People's reaction? "It's SO wrong!".."..to SHOW us all this in the stores."
Yes, people were shocked and appalled that they are SHOWN this stuff!
"..brainwashed by vegetarians. "
Yeah, those EVIL vegetarians that AVOID contributing to the CRUELTY INDUSTRY and PAINFUL, BRUTAL, BLOODY MASS-MURDER of innocent animals!
How DARE they try to avoid consuming flesh of the innocent!! EVIL BRAINWASHERS!!11