MovieChat Forums > Emma. (2020) Discussion > Please, not a "woke" version

Please, not a "woke" version


Now everyone flame me, I really don't care.

Jane Austen was a remarkable writer, but contrary to the popular image that's been created over the past couple of decades, she wasn't a bitter, man-hating snark or a neo-feminist two centuries ahead of her time. The best way to adapt her novels is to just put what she wrote on the screen, without imposing any trendy 21st century ideological nonsense on it. It will be an intellectually impressive writer and director who will resist the temptation. I hope to be pleasantly surprised.

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[deleted]

Why wasn't she a neo-feminist? Did she not turn down marriage with a wealthy man because it would have forced her to stop writing and start endangering her life by giving birth? She could have had a much more comfortable life but for her apparently feminist principles.

Regarding a new Emma, we've had several good realizations already. Wonder why we need a new one now.

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I think some books/stories are so enduringly popular that they could get remade every time there is a new generation of filmmakers. I wasn't sure if we needed another version of Emma but I enjoyed it when I saw it.

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We can't be sure why she eventually turned down Harris Bigg-Wither's proposal which she at first had accepted. It seems more likely she did so because she felt no affection for him. But even if she had feminist ideals in real life, her work hardly contains "neo-feminist" principles.

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The OP stated that *she* was not neo-feminist. They didn't say that about the work.

https://www.quora.com/What-if-Jane-Austen-had-just-gone-ahead-with-marrying-Harris-Bigg-Wither

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This is about the adaptation of her works, not of her life.

But her letters don't point to that either (especially not NEO-feminism). If her writing career was such a big motivation, she wouldn't even have accepted the proposal in the first place.

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Just so that everyone else can understand:

*I* responded to the topic of the original posting. *You* are twisting the topic.

Who knows. Maybe she didn't quite realize about having to give up writing until she sized up his character and thought it over more.

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To be fair, you are actually twisting the topic. One, of course Austen wasn't a NEO-feminist because that only refers to the late 20th/early 21st century wave of feminism. That is pretty much the OP's point. Two, you're inserting reasons as to why Austen rejected the proposal to support your argument against the OP's assertion.

Also, the OP's topic is actually about the adaptation of her work. And regarding that I repeat, since there's no real sign of feminist ideals in her work or private letters, there's no reason to include it in any adaptation (and the OP said pretty much the same thing).

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There are two definitions of neo-feminist; the one you're ignoring is also called "proto-feminist".

Yeah, it's always good to insert reasons because if you don't all you have are bare assertions, which as everyone knows are simply useless.

Simply repeating arguments as you are doing, however: utterly worthless.

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There are two definitions of neo-feminist; the one you're ignoring is also called "proto-feminist".

Yeah, it's always good to insert reasons because if you don't all you have are bare assertions, which as everyone knows are simply useless.

Simply repeating arguments as you are doing, however: utterly worthless.

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There are two definitions of neo-feminist; the one you're ignoring is also called "proto-feminist".

Yeah, it's always good to insert reasons because if you don't all you have are bare assertions, which as everyone knows are simply useless.

Simply repeating arguments as you are doing, however: utterly worthless.

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Repeating entire posts is even more worthless.😑

No, a "neo-feminist" only refers to second wave feminism. Hence the prefix "neo". Jane Austen could've been a "proto-feminist", but there's no evidence for that and it's not the topic of this thread. The OP clearly stated: "a neo-feminist two centuries ahead of her time " and "trendy 21st century ideological nonsense". You know what they mean.

Not a good idea to insert reasons as if they are facts when they are only assumptions, especially not when trying to support your argument against someone else's assertion. It's useless.

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I know what to do when I find a broken record.

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No, taking it and putting it up your behind is not what you're supposed to do.

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I think she just didn't like they guy who proposed to her. She wasn't opposed to marriage, even though she might have had to "endanger her life by giving birth".

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That was part of it too, but she was feminist enough not to just go through with marrying someone because that was society's expectation of what everyone should do.

https://www.quora.com/What-if-Jane-Austen-had-just-gone-ahead-with-marrying-Harris-Bigg-Wither

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[deleted]

Project much?

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We don't need personal attacks on this site.

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Did she not turn down marriage with a wealthy man because it would have forced her to stop writing and start endangering her life by giving birth? She could have had a much more comfortable life but for her apparently feminist principles.

Jane Austen didn't care about such 'feminist principles' or nothing of the sort.

Let her explain herself:

“That is as formidable an image as you could present, Harriet; and if I thought I should ever be like Miss Bates! so silly—so satisfied—so smiling—so prosing—so undistinguishing and unfastidious—and so apt to tell every thing relative to every body about me, I would marry to-morrow. But between us, I am convinced there never can be any likeness, except in being unmarried.”

“But still, you will be an old maid! and that's so dreadful!”

“Never mind, Harriet, I shall not be a poor old maid; and it is poverty only which makes celibacy contemptible to a generous public! A single woman, with a very narrow income, must be a ridiculous, disagreeable old maid! the proper sport of boys and girls, but a single woman, of good fortune, is always respectable, and may be as sensible and pleasant as any body else. And the distinction is not quite so much against the candour and common sense of the world as appears at first; for a very narrow income has a tendency to contract the mind, and sour the temper. Those who can barely live, and who live perforce in a very small, and generally very inferior, society, may well be illiberal and cross. This does not apply, however, to Miss Bates; she is only too good natured and too silly to suit me; but, in general, she is very much to the taste of every body, though single and though poor. Poverty certainly has not contracted her mind: I really believe, if she had only a shilling in the world, she would be very likely to give away sixpence of it; and nobody is afraid of her: that is a great charm.”


CONTINUE

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CONTINUE

“Dear me! but what shall you do? how shall you employ yourself when you grow old?”

“If I know myself, Harriet, mine is an active, busy mind, with a great many independent resources; and I do not perceive why I should be more in want of employment at forty or fifty than one-and-twenty. Woman's usual occupations of hand and mind will be as open to me then as they are now; or with no important variation. If I draw less, I shall read more; if I give up music, I shall take to carpet-work. And as for objects of interest, objects for the affections, which is in truth the great point of inferiority, the want of which is really the great evil to be avoided in not marrying, I shall be very well off, with all the children of a sister I love so much, to care about. There will be enough of them, in all probability, to supply every sort of sensation that declining life can need. There will be enough for every hope and every fear; and though my attachment to none can equal that of a parent, it suits my ideas of comfort better than what is warmer and blinder. My nephews and nieces!—I shall often have a niece with me.”


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She thought that being wealthy and having numerous family (and that was the case with Austen), she could have a very comfortable life without being married. She didn't sacrifice anything for whatever imaginary principles modern feminist assigns to her. She just weighted the different options and chose the one that served her best.

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Quotes from Emma don't mean that's what Austen actually thought.

Austen wasn't all that wealthy either.

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She was wealthy enough to live comfortably. And she was not alone, she was often surrounded by her family and friends.

And yeap, quoting Emma doesn't mean that was what Jane Austen thought. But it's a well argued and reasonable position. If we're gonna assign to her some position about this topic, at least, let's assign to her something she reasonably argued instead of some imaginary feminist principles.

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Not wealthy enough to dress in current fashions. Seen as somewhat bumptious because of it.

Lived with one sister.

Quoting Emma is as arbitrary as anything else.

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She had half a dozen brothers and sisters and more than 30 nephews. And that's only family, not friends.

And while she was not rich enough to afford all kind of luxuries, I repeat, she could live comfortably without problems. This was her family house where she lived:
https://janeaustenshousemuseumblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/p1010902.jpg

It's not Downton Abbey, it's not rich, but I'd say it qualifies without problems as high middle class.

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She and her mother and sister lived at Chawton Cottage Only because her brother generously gave them the use of a cottage on his estate. Edward nearly lost the Chawton estate due to a challenge to the will that left it to him. He had to fight a very expensive court case in order to keep it.

The three women had very little money between them. Cassandra had a small inheritance from her fiance who died, and the naval brothers occasionally helped financially. Henry helped when he could, but had his own problems when his bank failed. Jane, Cassandra and Mrs. Austen lived like Mrs. and Miss Bates, not Mr. and Mrs. Bennet.

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From https://www.janeausten.co.uk/the-assistance-of-servants/
When the Austen family moved to Bath in 1801, they were in reduced circumstances and had to rely on “the bare minimum” of servants for a family of four. She wrote of their plans to her sister, Cassandra, “My mother looks forward with as much certainty as you can do to our keeping two maids… We plan having a steady cook and a young, giddy housemaid, with a sedate, middle-aged man, who is to undertake the double office of husband to the former and sweetheart to the latter.”

You're right. They had very little money. After all, they had to reduce their expenses to the point of having only 3 servants.
:-(

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You do realize that at that time, people could have little money and still have servants? Servants were cheap compared to the expense of something like keeping horses.

Btw, are you and kuku twins?

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So, she turned down a marriage proposal. Before I met the woman who became my wife, I had a marriage proposal turned down by another young woman. I don't think she had anything ideological in mind. She was not an activist. It's just that she didn't particularly like me. Sometimes things are just that simple.

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But it was maybe not that simple back in Regency England. Back then, it was difficult for women in Jane Austen's social class to get a career and make their own money. And thus, many of them got married for financial reasons. So by the standards of that era, JA turning a man down was a big deal.

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Was it woke?

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